James McCarthy M free agent b.1990

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02/09/2020, 9:30 AM
pineapple stu

I don't think he has a worse win rate either - not within statistical relevance anyway.

The 4% difference is really just one win; two tops.
02/09/2020, 9:40 AM
DeLorean

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I don't think he has a worse win rate either - not within statistical relevance anyway.

The 4% difference is really just one win; two tops.

Deleted my post after. I took your point to mean that Whelan has a better win rate than McCarthy, when I assume now you just meant he'd have a worse win rate if he hadn't had those good players around him.

Young Irish - McCarthy's so-called worth now is obviously going to be impacted by the fact that he's an injury riddled 30 year old. A bit silly to base it on his ability/performances alone.
He was very highly regarded by Wigan & Everton supporters over a much longer time frame than his little stint at Palace, though he's received high praise there too once he got a run of games. Hendrick is best in a completely different midfield role and, as you say, the others are totally unproven. Hopefully they turn out to be world class and we can move on, but until then...
02/09/2020, 9:51 AM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeLorean

Deleted my post after. I took your point to mean that Whelan has a better win rate than McCarthy, when I assume now you just meant he'd have a worse win rate if he hadn't had those good players around him.

Yeah, it's just that the base stat doesn't really show much at all to be honest. The figures are too close together, and there's too many variables apart from just who played in centre mid.
02/09/2020, 10:01 AM
passinginterest

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diggs246

I think if it was still 2 points for a win and 1 for a draw. That would be v interesting in relation to whelos contribution to success. But it's not. Its 3 points and the win is now better than 2 draws. Does that make sense!!

Funnily enough the average points per game for the first five players on the list is incredibly similar, so the wins/draws/losses ratio makes little difference. Maybe it just shows, we've a lot of players of a similar level and will always return a similar result level over time.

Code:

Player Cap W D L Pts Pts per game Glenn Whelan 91 34 40 17 142 1.56 Jeff Hendrick 54 20 21 13 81 1.50 James McCarthy 41 17 12 12 63 1.54 Keith Andrews 35 14 11 10 53 1.51 David Meyler 26 12 4 10 40 1.54
02/09/2020, 12:05 PM
tetsujin1979

Quote:

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Been away for a few days with limited internet. Finally getting around to this
Result record for James McCarthy's caps below, along with some other midfielders from the same period for comparison.

Code:

Player Caps Wins Draws Losses Glenn Whelan 91 34(37.3%) 40(43.9%) 17(18.6%) Jeff Hendrick 54 20(37.0%) 21(38.8%) 13(24.0%) James McCarthy 41 17(41.4%) 12(29.2%) 12(29.2%) Keith Andrews 35 14(40.0%) 11(31.4%) 10(28.5%) David Meyler 26 12(46.1%) 4(15.3%) 10(38.4%) Paul Green 22 7(31.8%) 10(45.4%) 5(22.7%) Conor Hourihane 17 5(29.4%) 7(41.1%) 5(29.4%) Harry Arter 16 7(43.7%) 6(37.5%) 3(18.7%) Alan Browne 9 2(22.2%) 3(33.3%) 4(44.4%) Eunan O'Kane 7 2(28.5%) 2(28.5%) 3(42.8%)

Limiting the caps to competitive games results in this table

Code:

Player Caps Wins Draws Losses Glenn Whelan 58 23(39.6%) 25(43.1%) 10(17.2%) Jeff Hendrick 35 13(37.1%) 14(40.0%) 8(22.8%) James McCarthy 25 12(48.0%) 6(24.0%) 7(28.0%) Wes Hoolahan 23 11(47.8%) 7(30.4%) 5(21.7%) Keith Andrews 20 7(35.0%) 8(40.0%) 5(25.0%) David Meyler 12 8(66.6%) 2(16.6%) 2(16.6%) Harry Arter 10 4(40.0%) 4(40.0%) 2(20.0%) Conor Hourihane 10 3(30.0%) 5(50.0%) 2(20.0%) Keith Fahey 9 5(55.5%) 2(22.2%) 2(22.2%) Paul Green 8 2(25.0%) 3(37.5%) 3(37.5%) Alan Browne 4 0(0.0%) 3(75.0%) 1(25.0%) Eunan O'Kane 1 1(100%) 0(00.0%) 0(00.0%) Shaun Williams 1 0(0.0%) 0(00.0%) 1(100%)
02/09/2020, 12:21 PM
irishfan86

Nice one Tets. It�s remarkable to me that some on here view him as nothing special.
02/09/2020, 12:39 PM
tetsujin1979

it makes me think maybe we missed out on something with Meyler? Admittedly he didn't have a lot of caps, so it's not a great sample size, but we seemed to do well when he did play.
02/09/2020, 12:49 PM
Diggs246

Meyler was a good player but no pace
02/09/2020, 12:52 PM
Diggs246

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishfan86

Nice one Tets. It�s remarkable to me that some on here view him as nothing special.

Yep. He is by a country mile our best midfielder. Passing. Tackling. positioning. I think after this international window his critics on here will be silent
02/09/2020, 12:53 PM
seanfhear

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diggs246

Meyler was a good player but no pace

Unfortunately a serious injury took that option away from him.
02/09/2020, 1:38 PM
irishfan86

Quote:

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

it makes me think maybe we missed out on something with Meyler? Admittedly he didn't have a lot of caps, so it's not a great sample size, but we seemed to do well when he did play.

Meyler was very solid. It�s a pity injuries didn�t allow him to progress properly. I think the McCarthy skeptics/critics just don�t appreciate the value of a guy who breaks up opposing plays, while also being capable of playing some role in maintaining possession. The likes of Hourihane and Hendrick might very well be more technically sound, but neither of them can do the very specific things that McCarthy can do, especially on the defensive side.

But it�s not an either/or. McCarthy when he�s at his best will free up our more offensively minded midfielders to focus on what they�re best at.
05/09/2020, 12:45 PM
brine3

I think the problem is that your average armchair fan is expecting every Irish central midfielder to be a Giles / McGrath / Keane type player. McCarthy is not quite that but he is very, tidy player and good at doing all the small things that don't get noticed on TV. Think Mark Kinsella and Matt Holland.

Unfortunately the media in Ireland are only to happy to appeal to the armchair fans.
05/09/2020, 1:06 PM
youngirish

Quote:

Originally Posted by brine3

I think the problem is that your average armchair fan is expecting every Irish central midfielder to be a Giles / McGrath / Keane type player. McCarthy is not quite that but he is very, tidy player and good at doing all the small things that don't get noticed on TV. Think Mark Kinsella and Matt Holland.

Unfortunately the media in Ireland are only to happy to appeal to the armchair fans.

Yes people are armchair supporters because they don't agree with you. Posts like these make you look like a fool, a fanboy, both or James McCarthy himself. Who made you such an authority on Irish central midfield players? I'd argue nobody.

If you really knew anything about Ireland and midfielders you would know that Kinsella and Holland offered far more than McCarthy in a much more competitive team playing and getting results against much better opposition than McCarthy ever has for Ireland.

You always knew Kinsella was in the midfield when he was playing and certainly you knew that the opposition midfielders were well aware of it too. As for Holland he weighed in with a number of very important and often spectacular goals against quality opposition. McCarthy is nothing like either. He is more like a budget Michael Carrick.

Are these fans who watch him week in week out armchair supporters also?

https://www.holmesdale.net/page.php?id=106&tid=177095

Most of those fans for that struggling Premiership team with one top player (Zaha) wouldn't even have him starting for them. That's how highly they think of him those armchair supporters.

But yes you know better.
05/09/2020, 1:22 PM
brine3

Spectacular goals are indeed another thing that appeals to the armchair fan.
05/09/2020, 1:24 PM
DeLorean

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngirish

But yes you know better.

Hopefully SK knows better, he seems to have big plans for Mac.
05/09/2020, 1:26 PM
youngirish

Quote:

Originally Posted by brine3

Spectacular goals are indeed another thing that appeals to the armchair fan.

You're a man with the wit and repertoire of a modern day Oscar Wilde. Clueless about football though.
05/09/2020, 1:29 PM
youngirish

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeLorean

Hopefully SK knows better, he seems to have big plans for Mac.

Based on what evidence?

He couldn't get him off quick enough on Thursday.
05/09/2020, 1:35 PM
DeLorean

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngirish

Based on what evidence?

He couldn't get him off quick enough on Thursday.

Based on the evidence of his own words - https://www.otbsports.com/soccer/ste...reland-1068450

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Kenny

I know James hasn't played [for Ireland] since 2016 and there were a couple of tough years there for him with injuries and it can be mentally tough when that happens. He is someone who is extremely talented.

He has an exceptional range of passing. I don't think we have utilised him in his best position a lot. We haven't utilised his talent overall and injuries have prevented him becoming sort of regarded as the best midfield player of the generation which, in my mind, he is.

He's only 29 now so even some of his best performances might be ahead of him if he can stay fit. If we can get him facing the goal and get the ball to him in midfield with the speed that we've got, attacking options and the speed, it could be a good combination.
05/09/2020, 1:38 PM
youngirish

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeLorean

Based on the evidence of his own words - https://www.otbsports.com/soccer/ste...reland-1068450

An incoming manager talking up a player he was asked about in an interview and that means he has big plans for him? You really believe that?

If Molumby and Smallbone break into their respective premiership teams this season he'll be one of the first midfielders to be dropped.

You really think he'll be playing when sitting on the bench with Crystal Palace?
05/09/2020, 1:40 PM
DeLorean

You're right. He obviously thinks he's crap.

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