NI players would play for us if there was a situation like there is in rugby , but there isn't. It looks the cutting off of the option to play for "the south" isn't going to come about either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanchflower
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NI players would play for us if there was a situation like there is in rugby , but there isn't. It looks the cutting off of the option to play for "the south" isn't going to come about either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanchflower
Not every NI-born footballer from a Nationalist background* is a "dyed-in-the-wool" Nationalist, for whom the choice of international team is "the Republic or no-one".Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
Many will have no great political leanings either way i.e. like most young kids, they just want to play football. Therefore, if offered a choice, some who might otherwise have been perfectly happy if presented with the "Hobson's Choice" of NI (only), will now be tempted to choose ROI.
Moreover, in making such a choice, the factors which most influence them might not even be footballing ones, never mind political ones, although some deluded individuals like Alex Bruce might choose ROI because it is the "better" team :eek:, or might be easier to get a cap (well first cap, at least, even though once tied, they might not get too many more**). Some might choose ROI for financial reasons/inducements. Some might be influenced by 3rd parties (Family, Agents, Politicians, "Community Representatives" etc). Some have even swayed towards ROI due to personality clashes, or arguments with individuals in the IFA***
In common with most fans, I have always felt that playing for ones country should be an honour, not some mercenary or expedient perk of being a club footballer. Then again, as an ROI fan, you'll probably be even more acutely conscious of that than me, what with all the Plastics who've used the ROI down the years...
* - Strange that, ahem, Darron ("Ireland or Nothing") Gibson for instance, deigned to represent NI when he was younger...
** - I wonder how long, ahem, Darron ("Ireland or Nothing") Gibson might have to wait before his second cap...
*** - Didn't I read somewhere that, ahem, Darron ("Ireland or Nothing") Gibson first opted for ROI after he fell out with an IFA Coach who wanted to deny him the chance to travel to Manchester for a trial, since it clashed with an NI game for which he was also selected?
It's already been stated in this thread that ultimately the majority of professional sportsmen and sportswomen will think with their heads rather than their hearts.Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerMilla
Darron Gibson has two caps already. And if he keeps on developing, he'll win many more, especially given Carsley's age and our current dearth of central midfielders.Quote:
I wonder how long, ahem, Darron ("Ireland or Nothing") Gibson might have to wait before his second cap
Is this really news to anyone? How many Arsenal fans have played for Spurs or vice verse, or Basques or Catalans that have played for Real Madrid? You're even trying to score points here by bringing up 'plastics'. Maybe you should try going to watch 'da Republik' away and see that the English accent isn't confined to the Irish team.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Silly comment and lazy attempt at a dig. Is Maik Taylor not the clearest example of a mercenary in today's game?Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Time to move on - we've gone down this route already.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Thanks for taking such a didactic line while nonetheless not offering me one single shred of new information.
Next week EG on not every NI-born footballer is right footed and some prefer to dunk their rich teas.
Enough with the patronising please.
Maybe you should try going to watch 'da Republik' away and see that the English accent isn't confined to the Irish team
I watched the game in Cardiff with Lopez and chums from the RoI London supporters club. As he suggests, a mix of accents from all four corners, as well as the bloke behind me who snored contentedly through the second half :)
Ps Lope, I have that bufanda espanola for you, and look forward to presenting at a future meeting of your club.
He's Likely to have many more international caps and with Wolves determined to keep him for the rest of the season, he's picking up valuable experience, especially on the right wing.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
He'll be a great role model for kids all over the North, in years to come :D
The guy who plays central mid for Wolves will be on African Nations Cup duty and Gibson has said he hopes to play CM in his absence.Quote:
Originally Posted by co. down green
Let's be realistic here. Any Irish footballer who's a regular in a leading English D2 team is likely to be in an international squad.
He's a confident lad and is keen to fill the central role being left by Seyi Olofinjana over the holiday period & January.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
"hopefully I’ll get a chance to move inside and do a job in there, at the moment I don’t mind playing on the right of midfield because I think it’s adding a lot to my game, I’m getting in a lot of different positions and being able to play elsewhere can only help me when I go back to United.”
What do you mean play for "us"? In rugby, there is an all-Ireland team: it's not a case of NI players playing for the Republic!:mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerMilla
It might be news to GavinZac, who asked the question:Quote:
Originally Posted by lopez
"Why do NI want players that dont want to play for them, anyway?"
I was merely answering directly that it is not those youngsters who don't want to play for NI at any price (a v.small minority, imo) who concern us, rather those who might be persuaded either way.
Nice of you to prove my point, even if unintentionally. Arsenal, Spurs and Real Madrid are professional clubs, who offer players a career. Whereas international football should be about more than just a pay packet.Quote:
Originally Posted by lopez
I've only been to watch ROI play away a couple of times and not recently, but I am well aware of the differing affiliations of their fans. But once again, I make a distinction between fans and players when it comes to motives. Fans are just people who choose to follow a particular team and don't need to justify it to anyone. Whereas you can't normally "choose" your country as a player, therefore it's about honour and pride etc. Such pride normally derives from having been born in the country in question but obviously not exclusively so, since countries may sometimes choose players born elsewhere. As such, it may sometimes be the case that these non "native-born" players might have other motives aside from the usual, especially where they are dually or even multiply qualified. As a country which has picked a higher proportion of such players in the past than most, the ROI is/was always more liable to suffer being "used" by mercenaries than others (though at least you didn't have to suffer Vinny Jones!)Quote:
Originally Posted by lopez
Call that "points scoring", if you like. :cool:
Certainly time to move on from (the perennially cited) Maik Taylor, since new arrangements mean any new Taylor would not be eligible for NI. Though it is ironic that there is clearly no prouder player in the NI team than Big Maik, who e.g. always turns up for NI, whether in squad, bench or 1st XI, on form or off, fit or carrying an injury, unlike Fermanagh born-and-bred Roy Carroll, for example! :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
Besides, our Big Maik is "cancelled out" by your Alan Kernaghan when it comes to picking players of dubious provenance...;)
It may not have been news to you, but it wasn't aimed at you. It was a direct reply to Gavin Zac, whose question indicated he wasn't seeing the whole picture. If that's not too patronising a comment by me...:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerMilla
I'm quite aware of the concept of players picking and choosing which country to play for. However, frankly if a player came through the ranks of the irish set up and decided at the last minute that playing for england suited him better, I certainly wouldnt be too worried; Similarly, the "I'm Irish, innit" element of the national side annoys me. If by some decision it turned out he couldnt play for england and thus was eligible for Ireland again, I wouldnt want him selected. International football should not be win-at-all-costs.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
And it was good to see your accent wasn't out of place either. Thanks a lot for the scarf. It will be much appreciated come June.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Should it now? I would have thought for many that the thought of playing for one club they despise may well be more of a decision than playing for the country of their birth or the country of their parents birth. But then you base everything on where yer mammy's waters broke dontcha.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Affiliations? What's that supposed to mean? I don't think, unlike GR, you've been anywhere near an Ireland game home or away.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Some fans can actually 'choose', if you think we actually sat sown one day and thought 'hmmm? Ireland have never qualified for a World Cup, I tell you what I'll follow them because I won't have to pay for an expensive trip to Mexico. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Back to Mammy's waters again.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
I'd call it b*llocks!Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Everyone who wants to play for Ireland can if they want, Players who want to play with the northern team (some would say sectarian team) can if they want. All players are happy, its all about the players at the end of the day.
Im sick of the sour grapes
Well done. Very subtle.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
A simple yes to my question would of sufficed.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
We're all well-versed about Alan Kernaghan. But if I was a NI fan I'd be quite sad and frankly embarrassed by the whole Alan Kernaghan episode. Here you have a chap that was once a ball-boy at Windsor Park, that was in regular attendance at NI matches, that played schoolboy internationals for NI, and that had lived the majority of his life in NI. A chap that had dreamed of playing for NI but was denied. And didn't he get a nice bit of abuse for choosing to play with the Republic? But as I'm not a NI fan, as you know ;), sadness and embarrassment are the opposite of my feelings on the matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
so I'm not allowed to call the rugby team I support "us" ? and by extension the all-ireland soccer team if it ever came about "us"? not that i am in any way advocating one or want one , or advocating political union either. I want any northern lad who wants to play for ROI to be eligible to do so and I am happy with the status quo. I understand your frustration at what you see as the diminishing for your player pool ,but I'm not even slightly sympathetic as I also want whats best for the ROI team and an increase in our player pool with lads eager to pull on the jersey is undoubtedly whats best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanchflower
I think your coming round to our arguement nicely lopez. We are happy for the Grandmother rule to apply, the problem is with the rules set up the way they currently are, it is possible that:Quote:
Originally Posted by lopez
a) Gibson* has never set foot in the Republic of Ireland
b) Gibsons parents have never set foot in the Republic of Ireland
c) Gibsons parents, parents have never set foot on the Republic of Ireland
So, if that was the case, why should he be eligible?
Because he wants to be?
Or , because someone in the IFA ****ed him off and he wants to prove a point?
*purely as a hypothetical example
-----------------------
To attempt to clear up the Maik Taylor situation :-
1) The rules were different back then
2) He was not eligible for any country directly, as he was born on british soil in Germany. I admit that I dont know for sure, but I would be surprised if he qualifies/d for a German Passport.
----------------------------------------
I think the problem with you calling the team 'us', would be linked to the Irish Rugby team carrying all the 'trappings' of a Republic of Ireland rugby team re. flags and anthems. The players play for their National Team, not for 'you'.Quote:
so I'm not allowed to call the rugby team I support "us" ? and by extension the all-ireland soccer team if it ever came about "us"? not that i am in any way advocating one or want one , or advocating political union either. I want any northern lad who wants to play for ROI to be eligible to do so and I am happy with the status quo. I understand your frustration at what you see as the diminishing for your player pool ,but I'm not even slightly sympathetic as I also want whats best for the ROI team and an increase in our player pool with lads eager to pull on the jersey is undoubtedly whats best.Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanchflower http://foot.ie/inc/img/buttons/viewpost.gif
What do you mean play for "us"? In rugby, there is an all-Ireland team: it's not a case of NI players playing for the Republic!:mad:
I dont think its acceptable, but it doesnt bother me overly, and I do support the Ireland rugby team. But, it does stop a lot of people in Northern Ireland from the supporting the Ireland Rugby Team.
The players play for "me" by extension , if i and the rest of the supporters didnt turn up to support them or support the game at all levels then the honour of representing the island would be massively diminished. Still an honour but I think "I" bring something to the table.Quote:
Originally Posted by Absinthe
Anyone from Northern Ireland from any community there who likes rugby but does not support the Irish Rugby team need to have a look at themselves. If Paisley and Mcguinness can wish them well then surely everyone can ?
this is being dragged off topic now , we can go into "other sports" if you want to go into the rugby teams inclusiveness more.
Absinthe, a post like this is so lazy it qualifies as trolling. If you do not understand the eligibility rules then read the thread, there are enough posts explaining exactly the eligibility situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Absinthe
If you do not want to do that, then I suggest stop putting an argument for why is he eligible? and why the annex criteria do not apply?
Both those matters have been dealt with emphatically.
As regards to Darron Gibson,
Derry 9/11/07
"I would say the decision is a good thing for young footballers in N. Ireland. In my experience, many players would prefer to play for the Republic so it's definitely a good thing for the FAI. Then again, there are players who will opt to play for Northern Ireland so, from a player's point of view, I think it's good to have a choice.
"From my own personal viewpoint, I'm really enjoying being part of the Republic of Ireland squad. It's been brilliant so far and I'm glad all the talk of player eligibility is coming to an end," concluded the 20-year-old.
“Nigel Worthington did speak to me about coming back to Northern Ireland in the summer but I told him I was happy where I was.”
“I could get an Irish passport, having been a resident in Northern Ireland for over two years, but I still couldn’t play for the Republic."
I was trying to clarify why (i assume) the previous poster didnt like you using the word 'us'. By saying the word 'us' it implied that the Northern Irish members of the Ireland team were playing for 'your' team. They arent, they are playing for their team.Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerMilla
i.e. their is no us and them, there is only one team.
This is not the same as the case in football.
Any other myopic statements you'd like to make?Quote:
Anyone from Northern Ireland from any community there who likes rugby but does not support the Irish Rugby team need to have a look at themselves. If Paisley and Mcguinness can wish them well then surely everyone can ?
Would you still support the Ireland Rugby Team if it:
a) Played in Belfast?
b) Played under the Union Jack?
c) Used GSTQ as its Anthem?
d) Designated any matches played in the Republic as away games?
(and i'm not trying to take this thread off topic, but i do find your above statement offensive, but sure, its just a bit of craic)
If you'd care to read what I did write, instead of what you would have liked to write, you'll notice the word 'should'. I am well aware of the eligibility rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Also, the post wasnt even directed at you, unless you also post as lopez.
But thanks for taking the time to add your valuable input.
a ) certainlyQuote:
Originally Posted by Absinthe
b) No I wouldnt , but it wouldnt be the Irish team then so it would not be a choice i would have to make. I am happy with our Irish team flag by the way as seen at the world cup , its very nice.
c) Same as the union jack I am more than happy with Irelands call too.
d) that was sophistry on the part of the IRFU to get out of playing GSTQ in Belfast.
Dont for one minute think you have cornered the market on strong feelings as regards anthems and nationality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Absinthe
In case you've been away, he is eligible through an Irish passport. Now Absinthe, this point was cleared up ages ago. Whatever further reasons he or anyone else has for choosing between two different teams, I'd suggest you write them a letter at their club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Absinthe
'British soil in Germany': I like that one. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Absinthe
You get offended very easily, I see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Absinthe
not to mention the classic "bit of craic" throwaway designed to denigrate the opinions of someone of nationalistic bent.Quote:
Originally Posted by lopez
Absinthe , we are from different places and have very different views. I'm not sorry that mine dont tally with yours and am more than happy to debate as long as you are not a WUM.
Then why should Northern Irish people "look at themselves" if they find it impossible to support a team for this reason?Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerMilla
Don't support us then! Set up your own team with your own anthems and your own easily offended players then! As long as any player from any part of Ireland (or their descendants) can continue playing for the current Irish team, good f*cking riddance to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Absinthe
a) I asked you why you think they should be eligible, I am well aware of the rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by lopez
b) He was born on a British Army Barracks called Osnabruk (if memory serves me correctly). My understanding of this, is that it carries the same status as an Embassy, and is therefore regarded as British soil.
Feel free to come back with facts to the contrary?
c) The same poster admitted in his response that he wouldnt support the Ireland Rugby team it sang GSTQ. How is this any different to a Northern Irish person not supporting the Ireland Rugby Team for singing the Soldiers Song?
I found his myopic statement offensive enough to reply to it, even though it is taking the topic somewhat off thread.
Finally, its all just a bit of craic, refers to this myopic view, whereby when someone states something, its just a bit of banter, but when its turned around the other way, its anything but. Nothing political in it whatsoever.
Please start reading what Im posting, instead of what you think Im posting. I said people in Northern Ireland dont support the team, and also stated that I do.Quote:
Originally Posted by lopez
So please feel free to get off your high horse anytime.
Because the Ireland Rugby team is on a progressive course to becoming more inclusive as evidenced by the anthem and flags and in that spirit anyone who is a rugby fan on the island who finds it impossible to support them should give them another go. Perhaps one day they will have a home game in Belfast with an agreed anthem. ( I would not be backing GSTQ down at paddypower though).Quote:
Originally Posted by Absinthe
I didnt say that I said if it sang GSTQ it would no longer be the Irish rugby team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Absinthe
i now know how ill fill those hours after dinner on christmas day......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Absinthe
Was this not previously cleared up here..?
Quote:
:
To add to the confusion, it is my belief that having researched this matter thoroughly, they have no case in the Gibson matter.
Quite simply, he was a Republic of Ireland player before the rules were changed.
As he had not played in a competitive game at underage level for the North, he was perfectly entitled to make the change of allegiance when he moved to the Republic in October 2003.
On October 21 that year, in a small Austrian village called Brühl, Gibson lined up for UEFA under-17 Championship qualifier alongside the likes of Darren Randolph, Darren O’Dea and Anthony Stokes.
So eight months before FIFA made their decree, Gibson was already a Republic of Ireland player. As far as I can see, that’s case closed and he will not be changing nations now.
http://www.metroeireann.com/index.ph...=602&Itemid=26
And I said because they hold Irish citizenship.Quote:
Originally Posted by Absinthe
Maik Taylor would not be eligible to German citizenship even if he was born outside the barracks and his parents were not soliders because at the time of his birth, Maik Taylor needed a German parent to gain it. (GR: Once again I am directing one of your compatriots to the term Jus Sanguinnis).Quote:
Originally Posted by Absinthe
But the point is what connection does he have with the O6C? You want us to stop people playing for us who 'have never stepped foot' in the 26C (highly unlikely) but want to continue playing Maik Taylor and co because they qualify through a British passport.
As he says, it is no longer an Irish team with that anthem. Neither is NI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Absinthe
The Northern (unionist) rugby fan has the choice. Either put up with it or b*gger off. We have an inclusive rugby anthem now and rugby flag. EG doesn't want the Sash added to the SS as - in the usual mock offence that is common from ourweeminds - he's not an Orangeman. But he's happy - and you to - with a song about a German who has as much ancestral links to NI as that Maik Taylor. How about practicing what you preach and have the SS played before NI games. The IFA have miles to go to match the IRFU in its quest for inclusiveness with regards to the anthem - In fact, with the exception of Dublin, the SS has never been played at any of its games.
Yeah, yeah, yeah! If you find us so offensive then f*ck off! Is that offensive enough?Quote:
Originally Posted by Absinthe
Heaven forbid you say anything political! :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Absinthe