Still mad to see Waterford buying up players rather than using the free agent market, fascinating.
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Still mad to see Waterford buying up players rather than using the free agent market, fascinating.
Shane McMonagle re-signed for Harps.
I think in the context of LOI transfers substantial is really hard to figure out. Someone mentioned earlier the biggest transfer between league clubs is 80k. So could 30-40k be considered a substantial fee? Especially when an experienced striker has moved in the window for the lower end of that range. Really hard to know but I must say I'm not sure I understand all the hype around Lonergan. Is he really that good or have that much potential? Can't say he's stood out a huge amount in the half dozen or so matches I've seen of himQuote:
Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract
He really struggled last year, scored a brace in a 7-0 win over UCD and another brace against Dundalk in which he had a great game tbf, but those were his only league goals last season (also scored one against Harps in the cup and he might’ve scored one in another cup game in November too ;)) The worry for me was that it wasn’t so much he was missing a bag of chances when he played which Carty did a good bit of, but Lonergan on the other hand didn’t really seem to be getting into the positions to score either. There’s definitely flashes of a talented player in there somewhere tho as he showed on a handful of occasions last year and for 6 months with UCD the year previousQuote:
Originally Posted by Another Bohemia
I’d say Trevor Molloy to Bohs has to be close to the record fee. It was 40 or 50k punts then convert to euros and add on twenty years of inflation. It would be interesting to see how it equates.
I think he went for about IR£40k which is worth about €80,500 in 2023. https://www.hargaden.com/enda/inflation/calculator.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by D24Saint
If you could mix Carty and Lonergan's qualities together you'd probably have the best striker in the league, but they were hit and miss individually. Carty proved to be the best option because he had a great overall game but despite some nice goals his finishing was ropey to say the least and he missed some great chances. Lonergan on the other hand has some great game-winning moments of quality about him but they were few and far between last season and his general game was poor at best. Bad first touch, linking of play etc.
Saying that though I'd be a bit disappointed if he did go. He's still young and you can see the potential there with him, I'd probably fancy him to come on and win a game for you rather than Cian Kavanagh who is likely just going to be a functional back-up to Keating. I can easily see Lonergan being one of those cases where he moves and scores a bunch of goals for someone when it clicks for him.
Hopefully we are now in a different era but seeing so many LOI clubs paying fees for players, and not even top LOI players is worrying.
Is it?
Is it not a sign that there's longer player deals, which is good for the LoI in terms of players not moving abroad on free transfers?
Transfer fees are being paid for players not wanted by other clubs like Lonergan is because clubs are fighting over a continuing shrinking pool of decent domestic Irish players, that is not a sign of healthy league
It does create something of an arms race when there doesn't appear to be much in the way of additional income coming in to the league. New owner money is all well and good until they want a return or they pull out. They're not fans.
Honestly link up play and getting into positions to score are my biggest things for strikers. Georgie Kelly and Johnny Afolabi both went through periods of being in the right position and missing sitters but once it clicks they usually keep going in. The build up play just gives you an excuse to play them when they are missing those chances as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract
Far from it. We cry about English clubs shafting us on transfer fees, how can we demnd top dollar for players if we have no respect for ourselves in the first place? Even up north, paying transfer fees has been common enough. Would I pay a fee for Darragh Leahy or McCourt as Waterford reportedly have done? No chance, but it's good for the league, if we want to become an actual industry this is an important step.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgonigle
Is it though? Or is it an expected, some might say inevitable, outworking of the minimum contract? Maybe even a sign of greater professionalism from the clubs? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by total hoofball
Short term this could be viewed as a positive. Now longer term...
it becomes a problem if we're relying on sugar daddies, European prize money or big money transfers abroad to finance these domestic transfers. The FAI have to drop the other boot, and that's increasing prize money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Longfordian
Either way expect greater reliance on academies, and possible uptick in player swaps like Dundalk were angling for recently.
You realise you decry relying on European prize money then saying league prize money increase being a solution makes no sense?Quote:
Originally Posted by A N Mouse
Sure increasing the prize money is necessary in my opinion but I think it's somewhat like the first time buyers scheme with houses. It just makes everything within the league more expensive rather than actually solving any problems. Clubs need to look at their own merchandising and maximising that revenue. Increasing season ticket sales and looking to add more to the match day experience than just a 90 min game (better food/coffee options, club bars, entertainment before & after games to keep people on site & spending money in the club) better facilities ties into this. I also think there's a huge area of growth in social media. You look at some of these influencers online who put out some of the most banal and pointless content but make a comfortable living from it. There's certainly money to be made from a league and club level for that.
TL,DR Clubs need to be financially stable regardless of any prize money (domestic or international) to really push on because as we've seen in this league all to often you can win the league one year and in a few years be relegated.
I definitely think it's an incentive for clubs to offer "multi-year" deals. If they get €20k for an internal transfer it probably covers the cost of the extended contract.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Stability at teams has to be a good thing, I was also thinking this must be one of the first years there hasn't been an off-season managerial change at any Premier Division club.
I think there could be a bit of a player in Cian Kavanagh - during the off-season he was a player I ear marked as a possible signing for Galway United. Definitely needs to score more and he had a bit of a horror show against Tobol in the Conference League but I think his general play was better than McGonigle, who seemed to have totally lost his way at Derry by the end. For some reason I thought he was a bit taller than he actually is - I guess he's just quite well built.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack B
All very true - and don't forget non matchday income. I think we're really bad at it. You wouldn't see many businesses have their shop closed for all bar, say, 25 days of the year. Increasingly new-build grounds - even down the leagues in England - include stuff like hotels, shops, parking facilities, etc, to generate money outside matchday. I think it was Walsall a few years back who said they could run a professional football club without any matchday income.Quote:
Originally Posted by Another Bohemia
I think due to the nature of the grounds here it's probably a bit harder to ensure non match day income. Pat's and Shels own their ground (actually unsure about whether Shels completed that purchase) but both grounds have very limited scope for growth from what I can see. They could add a coffee shop or pub/restaurant on site possibly but plenty of these ventures have been failing lately and it's not just because of unpopularity if them but the costs of running them. I don't know if any ground that would be owned by the club and have space for a hotel but open to correction on that. Either way there are a plethora of options open to clubs without needing hotels that they can look into.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Agree with you, was just speaking on those specific differing qualities of each. From what I've seen Kavanagh looks like a better all-rounder than Lonergan, but Lonergan I'd have more hope in pulling a great moment out of the bag if you were chasing a game etc. I think Keating is essentially replacing Eoin Doyle, Kavanagh for Carty and then you have Lonergan still there when comparing last season's options for Pats to this. Kavanagh seems to me a bit similar to a lot of strikers in this league in recent times where he's a handful to deal with and a good squad option, but at the same time the jury is out as to whether he could grow into a player that you'd even be expecting to hit double figures over a league season.Quote:
Originally Posted by JC_GUFC
I agree clubs should be doing all in their power to be financially stable. However the discussion is about things already getting more expensive, in that fees are being paid where they wouldn't have been before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Another Bohemia
And the point about European prize money is that it's concentrated in a few clubs hands, clubs likely already having significant resources, (ok there are solidarity payments), and it's not stable or in any way guaranteed (difference between going out in Q1 vs getting to GS). But realistically this is going to be the main source of outside income that's going to drive domestic transfer fees for the foreseeable.
Meanwhile domestic prize monies are still at level where fees and fines can exceed prize money. I'm not suggesting that clubs should be able to operate based solely on income from the FAI, but that, at a bare minimum, no club should be incurring losses to the association just for competing.
Agree with that, though it is a limiting factor for LoI clubs. Bray have a car park I know. Do other clubs have non matchday income? Are the Bohs/Shels bars open outside of match nights for example?Quote:
Originally Posted by Another Bohemia
Bohs open the bars for big events usually, Irish qualifiers on occasion, finals of big tournaments but you are competing against a lot of very nice pubs in the phibsboro/stoneybatter area so it's usually just the usual heads that go. They also host events like communions, 18ths & 21sts on occasion but again you're competing in a very full market for that too.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I think increasing prize money wouldn't add anything to making clubs more financially stable though. It will be like the help to buy scheme where we saw new build prices increase literally overnight by the full grant amount. If you increase the prize money by 10k per team that will quickly be eaten up by the players they sign that offseason either in fees to clubs or agents or wages to the players or a combination of bothQuote:
Originally Posted by A N Mouse
Spot on stu re other income sources.
If you take match day revenue at Rovers 6000 x €20 average per punter x 20 games , includ season tickets you generate about 2.4m. Assuming club costs 3.5 to 4m to run, then still a further 1- 1.5m to raise. Similar calculations would apply on other clubs. Thats a fair bit to raise in sponsorship and advertising, and is very dependent on having UEFA prizemoney.
€20 a head would probably include additional spend such as food and programme? It's too high for just ticket money. There's outlay on food/programme of course.
But the gist is correct alright. Compare that to teams in League Two in England who start out with £1.1m in TV rights and solidarity payments from the Premier League. It's a huge gulf.
I think increased prize money would at least help cover the basic operational costs and make clubs slightly more stable that way. They can still find ways of bankrupting themselves of course.
And if that happens then fine. I'm not suggesting it would make clubs more financially viable or stable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Another Bohemia
We're talking about the lack of transfer activity or 'unusual' transfer activity and attributing that to longer contracts and paying fees.
Football transfer fees is basically all that trickle down economics bs in action. And if clubs are just about getting by as is then were is the transfer money going to come from? You rely on the clubs that have money to buy players, so the selling clubs have the money to replace them.
The contracts and fees are a positive step. But it's something that's been 'forced' on the clubs. And some clubs were already paying more in participation fees and fines than they were receiving in prize money. I don't think it too outlandish to suggest that hand in glove with minimum contracts should go minimum prize monies.
So while clubs should be financially stable and live within their means they should be guaranteed at least something like enough to cover one admin salary plus enough to buyout of 1 year of contract at 7k or 20k or whatever the agreed min wage was.
I understand completely what your saying I just disagree that increasing the prize money will result in what you want. It would probably be better for the FAI/Government to give grants to cover admin costs or FAI reduce the cost of entry to the league if that's what you are looking to improve. I agree both of these things are issuesQuote:
Originally Posted by A N Mouse
Players/Agents and in fairness clubs to an extent will see an increase in prize money and immediately think "player budget increase" so the money will likely never hit the areas you want.
Joe O'Brien-Whitmarsh joined Southampton from Cork City.
I agree the clubs would do what clubs do with extra money, at least at the top. But this thing is an entirely predictable consequence of introducing minimum wage by the association, and they should be seen to do something about. And increasing the pitiful prizemoney levels would be two birds with one stone (they can then hold their hands up when clubs do as you say)Quote:
Originally Posted by Another Bohemia
Whatever about short term positives of longer contracts, the league's not big enough to have everyone tied down. And I worry that we might look back fondly on the days of boom and bust as could be looking at new hegemony with a top 5/6 that's increasingly hard to breaking into forming over the next few years.
Harps down to 50’s from 90’s yesterday!Quote:
Originally Posted by ForzaForth
That tenner i put on has moved the market
Who do you see as being in that top 5/6? While I can see Shams and Derry being there for a few years I don't see dominance from any of the others. They are all a few bad decisions from falling down the table.Quote:
Originally Posted by A N Mouse
And my fiver!Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
Being in the top 6 isn’t dominance. The top 6 has contained each of rovers, Derry, Pats, Bohs and Dundalk in the last 5 seasons already, with the exception of Derry being 7th in 2020 in an 18 game season. There’s usually 1 more team that pops up in the top 6 sporadically (Sligo, Shels etc.) but those 5 always seem to be there as it is alreadyQuote:
Originally Posted by Thewhitepele
And my axe!Quote:
Originally Posted by joey B
Dundalk have Togolese international goalkeeper Malcolm Barcola on trial with them. He’d be the 2nd Togo international to play in the league after the infamous Cyril Guedje played a couple of games for pats before being loaned out to Limerick
https://m.independent.ie/regionals/l...768065755.html
I always find the fates of footballing siblings mad, his brother Bradley plays for PSG while he goes on trial at the AUL :D
Clubless since last May, when he played the last of his eight games for Tuzla City, a midtable Bosnian side. Missed five months of the season; not sure why. Soccerway doesn't list unused subs in the Bosnian league so can't tell if he was injured or dropped. Really random one. I'm sure Dundalk will be hoping he's not another Alessio Abibi...!
Lovely lad but unfortunately was absolutely hopeless.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract
Is Daithí McCallion fit enough to do preseason with Derry?