O'Neill gives his backing for a United Ireland team

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

If all you're concerned about is my borrowing of a metaphor from one of the centrally involved figures, then I will gladly replace "battle" and "war", with "sprint" and "marathon" (or whatever else non-militaristic phrase you prefer). Hell, I'll even throw in an unconditional apology for my injury to the sensitivities of all the untold millions who've suffered in warfare in the history of mankind. OK?

P.S. Have you anything substantive to add to the debate, following these new developments in Sydney? :rolleyes:

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Yes NI born Irish nationals will still be able to play for the Republic even if they have no ancestors that originated South of the Border. So as geysir has already stated in a practical sense nothing has changed regarding the situation existing between the two Irish football teams.

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Originally Posted by osarusan

This is the new amendment, and I think that this -
1 A player who, under the terms of art. 15, is eligible to represent more than one Association on account of his nationality,
- is the key sentence.

Gesysir's interpretation is that the word 'nationality' refers to a single nationality which makes a player eligible for more than one association. But as nationality of ROI alone does not qualify a player to play for NI, article 16 is irrelevant.

Ealing Green's interpretation is that the word 'nationality' refers to a dual or multiple nationality which makes a player eligible for more than one association. In this case article 16 is relevant, and further criteria are imposed.

It comes down to how the word 'nationality' is to be interpreted - is that correct?

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Thats the nail on head there, but I am assuming that FIFA would fully understand that when re-wording and if so then I definitely would go with geysir here, however if somehow they found the whole thing a bit fuzzy and actually meant the case covering IFA/FAI, I think FIFAs use of the word nationality here is wrong even though they may not realise it.

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Originally Posted by Carnloughred

The IFA do not yet seem to realise that the vast majority of nationalists do not feel any affiliation to the NI team. They would much rather play for or support the Republic.

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I'm sure they do (although they might quibble with "vast majority" and "any").

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Originally Posted by Carnloughred

NI are a British team.

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They are also an Irish team, the clue is in the name: "Northern Ireland". Or in "Irish Football Association". But to save confusion, it's best just to call them "Northern Ireland".

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Originally Posted by Carnloughred

It is embarrassing watching, as they play the British national anthem,

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Although I personally would prefer if it were changed, GSTQ is the NI anthem.

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Originally Posted by Carnloughred

the token nationalists Chris Baird and Sammy Clingan

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Quite disgraceful to label Baird and Clingan as "tokens". The IFA is not in the business of picking players for other than footballing reasons and I am sure neither of these (or the other players from a Nationalist background who represent NI) would accept selection on such a basis.

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Originally Posted by Carnloughred

Chris Baird and Sammy Clingan stand silently, heads bowed, as their British colleagues sing God Save the Queen with gusto.

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Distortion. A couple of the NI players sing GSTQ with what might be termed "gusto", a couple more sing it ordinarily, the rest just stand respectfully. Anyhow, whatever their views on the anthem, it doesn't stop Baird, Clingan, Johnson etc ever giving less than 100% in the green shirt. Indeed, when I compare their recent performances with those of certain members of the ROI team in the same period, perhaps the FAI might consider picking a few "tokens", or even scrapping The Soldiers Song, for all the inspiration it seems to provide.

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Originally Posted by Carnloughred

The IFA press ahead with their attempts to force players to play for a team that they do not wish to play for.

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Now you're getting silly. How can the IFA "force" anyone to play for them? Who have they attempted to "force"? How many cry-offs through suspicious "injuries" (or dead grannies:eek:) did the NI squad suffer during the last qualifying campaign, compared with certain other comparable international sides? Seeking to prevent someone who is clearly eligible for you from playing for another team for whom you consider him ineligible is NOT the same as "forcing someone to play for you" (even if that were physically possible)

I can only assume you base your opinions not on attending NI games, but on second-hand "information", since my experience of following the team, home and away, in the period since this eligibility row has flared up, has been of a team whose players without exception have played with absolute pride, passion and belief.

If you are an ROI supporter, can you say the same for your team? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Blanchflower

A very embarrassing gaffe by the IFA, but the case still remains that - notwithstanding the FIFA rules (under which Northerners have always been eligible anyway) - the FAI is breaking a gentleman's agreement by picking NI players. The IFA should refuse any co-operation with the FAI until some sort of agreement is reached.

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Well if the IFA do refuse to cooperate with the FAI, let them as it is they who will loose out, The FAI should not compromise on this!

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Originally Posted by kingdomkerry

Well if the IFA do refuse to cooperate with the FAI, let them as it is they who will loose out, The FAI should not compromise on this!

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Loose out?:(

When the sad truth sinks in to Ealing Green, although he doesn't quite understand how his OWC have been fécked over again by FIFA, he will deny falling hook line and sinker for the IFA screaming victory once again.

He knows enough to know he got it wrong but not much more than that.
That's why he keeps getting suckered.

Once all that debate is over then
Ealing Green and others usually start, continue or take up a debate about flags, anthems,
about how only 10 booed Neil Lennon,
that 10p phonecall,
that Neil actually loves the owc,
that they only want players who want to play for queen and or country,
that he usually takes a pee while GSTQ is being belted out,
that the FAI are the ungentlemanly lot
that because the republic has extra territorial ambitions and give out citizenship ...
that zzzzzzzzzzz.

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Originally Posted by Newryrep

EG , single nationality, more than one association, Denmark and Faroes; China and Hong Kong; France and Guadeloupe; Netherlands and Aruba, etc and of course British. If you check out the debate on Slugger, some of your compatriots agree with Geysir on the principal point -

• the nationality it refers to is a single nationality not multiple
  nothing has changed
  The IFA should of argued for a change in the rules not enforcement of the rules
  Irish nationality on its own does not entitle anybody to play for the IFA

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None of the four British Associations is allowed to pick a player from any other part of the UK without there being a connection (parent/grandparent/residence etc), so that has no bearing on the FAI/IFA dispute.
And as for the other examples you cite, can you confirm for me whether the Faroe Islands FA is allowed to pick players from anywhere in Denmark, or vice versa? May the HKFA pick players from throughout the rest of China (or vv)? Ditto Fr/Guad and Neth/Aruba?

And even if they may, the UK, China, Denmark, France and Denmark are nations which have more than one Football Association within their jurisdiction. Consequently, they do not compare with, or create a precedent for, a nation (Irish Republic) which has only one, but which is attempting to select players from outside of their jurisdiction (political or footballing).

As for "Slugger", I am well aware that some NI fans feel the FAI's case prevails, others the IFA. I personally am not certain which view is correct, though I am increasingly inclined towards the IFA's case.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

None of the four British Associations is allowed to pick a player from any other part of the UK without there being a connection (parent/grandparent/residence etc), so that has no bearing on the FAI/IFA dispute.

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Under Article 16, yes - which has no bearing on the ROI/NI situation.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

And as for the other examples you cite, can you confirm for me whether the Faroe Islands FA is allowed to pick players from anywhere in Denmark, or vice versa? May the HKFA pick players from throughout the rest of China (or vv)? Ditto Fr/Guad and Neth/Aruba?

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If you read Article 16 you'll see that they can't!

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

The UK, China, Denmark, France and Denmark are nations which have more than one Football Association within their jurisdiction. Consequently, they do not compare with, or create a precent for, a nation (Irish Republic) which has only one, but which is attempting to select players from outside of their jurisdiction (political or footballing).

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Exactly - which is why Article 16 applies to those nations and not to ROI, for which ARticle 15 is relevant.

It is great to see such passion from some supporters about who can or cannot play for their team especially when some players are not that bothered and when even medicore clubs in england coerce players into faking injury[even with underage teams] so that they do not have to turn out for their international teams.This does seem to happen a lot more to countries that these clubs believe do not have the the same influence as others.Perhaps supporters should unite in protecting international football from the dangers that threaten all international sides

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

It is great to see such passion from some supporters about who can or cannot play for their team especially when some players are not that bothered and when even medicore clubs in england coerce players into faking injury[even with underage teams] so that they do not have to turn out for their international teams.This does seem to happen a lot more to countries that these clubs believe do not have the the same influence as others.Perhaps supporters should unite in protecting international football from the dangers that threaten all international sides

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Well said. Unfortunately most ROI supporters seem keener to shaft their neighbours than to stand alongside them.

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Originally Posted by Blanchflower

Well said. Unfortunately most ROI supporters seem keener to shaft their neighbours than to stand alongside them.

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ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

None of the four British Associations is allowed ....................to pick a player from any other part of the UK without there being a As for "Slugger", I am well aware that some NI fans feel the FAI's case prevails, others the IFA. I personally am not certain which view is correct, though I am increasingly inclined towards the IFA's case.

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EG, Blanchflower has kindly answered your question probably better and quicker than I ever could. However FIFA have more things on their mind than the FAI/IFA dispute and has been pointed out previously do not seem inclined to do much more about it. I personally cant get my head around playing for somebody (IFA) underage and then switching (FAI) but that is just me.

I dont think it will start a tidal wave of players choosing to play for the FAI as oposed to the IFA, but the fact that you are activately preventing players (who choose for what ever reason) does leave a bad taste in the mouth.

I do have a certain sympathy with the IFA but if you look up sympathy in the dictionary it is between sh1t and syphilis.

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Originally Posted by kingdomkerry

ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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KK, your 'debating' skills on this particular topic are juvenile to say the least .

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Originally Posted by Blanchflower

The IFA should refuse any co-operation with the FAI until some sort of agreement is reached.

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yes indeed , thats the way to go about things... :cool:

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Originally Posted by Blanchflower

Well said. Unfortunately most ROI supporters seem keener to shaft their neighbours than to stand alongside them.

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so a nationalist born in the six counties who wishes to declare for the ROI is not being shafted by his neighbours ( the IFA ,its supporters and members) who wish to deny him the right to play for the ROI?

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Originally Posted by RogerMilla

so a nationalist born in the six counties who wishes to declare for the ROI is not being shafted by his neighbours ( the IFA ,its supporters and members) who wish to deny him the right to play for the ROI?

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No. He shouldn't have such a "right" if he's not from there.

[QUOTE=geysir;955447]He knows enough to know he got it wrong but not much more than that.
That's why he keeps getting suckered.QUOTE]

In fairness to him though, he would "bamboozle" manys a folk with his cloudy dialogue, so much so that you end up forgetting what you were supposed to be reading/arguing, geysir, you do well to stay on the point at hand ;) :D

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Originally Posted by Blanchflower

No. He shouldn't have such a "right" if he's not from there.

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Pretty simplistic take on the whole Northern Ireland nationalist/unionist situation Blanchflower. I take it then you're not British as you're not from the Britain that appears on any of my maps?

All those footballers throughout the world who play for countries whose borders their mother didn't happen to find herself in at the time of their birth should just pack up then and stick to club football from now on?

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Originally Posted by youngirish

I take it then you're not British as you're not from the Britain that appears on any of my maps?

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Why do you take that? And of what relevance is the question? :confused:

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Originally Posted by youngirish

All those footballers throughout the world who play for countries whose borders their mother didn't happen to find herself in at the time of their birth should just pack up then and stick to club football from now on?

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Players such as who?:eek:

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Originally Posted by Blanchflower

No. He shouldn't have such a "right" if he's not from there.

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And there Blanchflower is where you and I disagree.