Slovakia V Republic of Ireland - Tuesday, 12th October 2010 - Euro 2012 Qualifier

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

So manage expectations, setting in again. We are happy now for second. Come june we will be happy to fight it out for second and then september, just happy that we have a chance of still coming second if results go our way....

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There's no point not being realistic. If Keane's chip against Russia goes in after 10 minutes, chances are we're talking today about winning the group. We're now probably not going to win the group looking at it realistically. That's disappointing, we had a chance to do that after the first 2 games, maybe even after the russia game we still could. Slovakia would have said the same before the thing started, and certainly would have looked at winning it after beating Russia. Now though it's the Russian's in pole position.

That could all change if we go out and beat Macedonia twice, Slovakia at home and finally win a big away game in Moscow. Should we look to win every game in the hope of that happening - of course. But when a point in Moscow could be so crucial, I don't exactly like the idea of going hell for leather looking for goals over there and letting Kerzhakov, Arshavin and the rest run at Kilbane, Whelan or whoever's playing that day. I think some people have great delusions about Keith Fahey or James McCarthy imperiously strutting around the Luzhniky stadium if only if it wasn't for our defensive tactics. But just look at how Russia picked us apart towards the end of the game on Friday when we pushed forward.

A point in Moscow would be great, it would set us up for finishing second. And maybe with a bit of luck for once we'll finally take a half-chance and nick a 1-0 win. Unlikely, but not beyond the realms of possibility.

we have duff / hunt / lawerence / doyle to add to last nights team. its not all bad and i dont think russia are dead certs to run away with this group. anything could happen yet.

We say the same everytime jicked.

At the end of the day as oleary would say, your first paragraph comes back to the point, that the russians were favourites, and are top of the group, no matter what happened they are still there. So you can have your permutations, what ifs, we can do, we could still etc etc results and the tables dont lie. We are joint 2nd with 2 others, its hardly where we wanted or thought we would be(2nd, perhaps), or should be happy with after the '10 games.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I actually rated McGeady tonight despite the lack of final ball. It's so frustrating: there's a good team trying to get out of this lot. The attitude & approach to the game was fine tonight. The players had the courage to play it on the deck. A couple of players stood out, namely Fahey and Long and others like O'Shea, Dunne, Sledge, McGeady all looked more than suited to the game. KK was alright, a decent shift. One more midfielder and a sharper forward...

The prospect of Doyle & Long excites me.

Duff, Hunt, Lawrence & Andews to become available available, McCarthy or Wilson or a dark horse against Norway to step up. Robbie & Shay to sharpen up.

The glass is still half full but two big negatives:

- Another chance of a credible away win is gone. The longer this goes on the harder it becomes to get one. If we get one, the next one becomes easier. Israel away still kills me in this regard. Even Slovakia last time out.

- 7 points out of 12. We need to be constantly ticking along at 2 points per game. In golfing parlance, we're 1 over par. We need a couple of birdies.

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As ever the voice of reason. I'll try to be as fair, while still trying to be realistic when I give my tuppence worth later!

Its not kingdom its looking optimistically rather than on previous results and history, and you can see your future - its mapped out in scars.

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Originally Posted by elroy

All jokes aside, as of right now I wouldnt be entirely confident of us getting six points off them either.



Ya you could tell from Giles face when he mentioned Barry M that he hadnt a clue who he was. These guys are first paid good money to be on the show and second are meant to have a strong interest in Irish international football. Its not much to ask of them to just be aware of whats relevant to the team and what options are out there.

I know the webcast is more relaxed but still Brady not knowing (and hinting that Trap doesnt either) about the rule re tying a player down when it has been known by pretty much every poster here for months is a bit alarming.

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Your wrong. They're paid good money to improve the ratings, and given their history if there is a hint of controversy they will do that.

They've been on the box longer than I've been watching Ireland matches and it's very obvious that when they were initially selected, it was done on the basis of Giles knows how football should be played (very relevant when he started) while Dunphy was a good journalist and a former player. 25 years later, Giles still knows how football should be played but his knowledge of footballers in a general sense is almost embarrasing. Dunphy is no better, but he does try to waffle his way out of it.

The difference between the paid analysts and someone like myself is that my interest is solely on the National team, and all it's tributaries, whether that's the underage teams, the FAI, the management, or the emerging eligible players such as Barry Maguire, Hogan Ephraim or Selcuk Tidim, whereas the paid analysts are interested in some of the English teams, how they compete in the EPL and the CL, and then the National team.

Oh and the small matter of them having the professional experience to back their assertions up!

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Slovakia's next two games are Andorra home and away, so they will expect to pick up 6 points there, meaning we will have to match their results against Macedonia to still be in contention for second when the return game comes around next September.

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That's the single biggest thing to take from the weekend just gone unfortunately. Come the return game, we in all reality be at best still level with Slovakia, and perhaps trailing them, meaning they can come to Dublin, throw men behind the ball and try hit us on the break. A big worry unfortunately. We'd a chance last night to really hurt them, and as a consequence keep us in touch with Russia, and neither happened. Disappointing.

We are playing for second place and against two rivals now(Armenia and Slovakia). But the second half last night showed again we are going to have real problems closing out our remaining home games and the away game to Macedonia (Andorra we will beat). There is something wrong that is not being addressed by the management. yes we will have some players back (and will probably lose some as well) but so will the other teams. I watched the game again this morning and it is crystal clear that we adpoted a what we have we hold in the second half. Free kicks played backwards. Whelan turning back towards his goal at every opportunity to play the ball. Thankfully McGeady decided to play the Slovakians by himself. But we still ended up drawing with a very, very poor team. Thankfully there is a gap now and we desperately need some new QUALITY players introduced. But again I'm not convinced Trap is going to make a whole lot of changes against Norway. I hope I'm wrong.

given that we were seeded third, is it any great surprise that we are playing for second?

The timing of when teams get their 6 points from Andorra is irrelevant in my opinion. Slovakia, or anyone, would be stupid to deploy a game plan in Dublin that ignores the near certainty of us getting 3 points in Andorra. It's the state of the relative results against the other teams that's important.

We're marginally ahead of Slovakia in my book, mainly because we have still to play Slovakia at home. If we win that then it's very much advantage us.

If we beat Slovakia at home we need to match their remaining results to finish ahead of them.*

Our respective Russia and Armenia results to date cancel each other out.

They beat Macedonia at home, but we'd expect to do that too. I don't think that's much of a result to have "in the bag".

I think the fact that Slovakia have Russia at home favours them perhaps. They're likely to get more points from Russia at home than we will away.

Winning the group is unlikely given our propensity to avoid winning winnable games.

* is it head-to-head or GD that decides if 2 teams are level?

what you have to ask yourselves is what happens if russia lost to slovakia a away, we are in real pressure cooker stuff there.

I agree with noely, last few posts have been sensible, its a bad return, we have been poor, others will miss players too and so will we. I dread the scenario above, although it would bring us right back into it, it would mean russia would have the ball in their court(in terms of us playing them away and all their home games) and slovakia could pip top.....

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

The timing of when teams get their 6 points from Andorra is irrelevant in my opinion. Slovakia, or anyone, would be stupid to deploy a game plan in Dublin that ignores the near certainty of us getting 3 points in Andorra. It's the state of the relative results against the other teams that's important.

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Fair enough.

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We're marginally ahead of Slovakia in my book, mainly because we have still to play Slovakia at home. If we win that then it's very much advantage us.

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Certainly.

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If we beat Slovakia at home we need to match their remaining results to finish ahead of them.*

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It's head to head that counts first. So beating them at home becomes the imperative.

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They beat Macedonia at home, but we'd expect to do that too. I don't think that's much of a result to have "in the bag".

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I disagree here. We struggled badly against Montenegro last year. How much of that was a hangover from the Italy game? Who knows? I doubt very much that the Macedonians will be at that level away from home, but they posed problems for the Slovaks, who were blessed to take the three points.

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I think the fact that Slovakia have Russia at home favours them perhaps. They're likely to get more points from Russia at home than we will away.

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It's not just that though, it's the fact that they play Russia after we play in Moscow. Russia could need to beat us to finish off the group, while they could be going to Slovakia with little to play for.

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Winning the group is unlikely given our propensity to avoid winning winnable games.

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Unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Its not kingdom its looking optimistically rather than on previous results and history, and you can see your future - its mapped out in scars.

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GREEN-APOCOLYPSE

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/1876/endnigh5.jpg

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

given that we were seeded third, is it any great surprise that we are playing for second?

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No, it's a fair cop guv, and sometimes people lose the run of themselves both positively and negatively. I'm as guilty as anyone before a match. Retrospectively I try to be balanced. I wonder how many people go back and watch the matches in full again to challenge themselves more than anything, and to form an opinion free of the emotion during a match?
I'd reckon there would be a bit of a difference!

Just to add to your point kingdom, if it goes on head to heads, russia slip up against slovakia or even someone else, we are all level, if we draw with slovakia at home which is probably what will happen, we go out because russia beat us, and slovakia beat russia, so they go top and russia go second. I could actually see this happening, as i see probably getting a draw in russia.

There's a lot of football to be played yet. Both Russia and Slovakia will drop points in their remaining games. And I think we have players to come in and improve us.

ON what basis do you think Russia, will drop points, their loss at home was a blip, one which they were unlucky to at least not get a draw, on any other day they would have. they have showed nothing but professionalism and killer instinct to win games out.

Slovakia and Armenia will drop points. BUt i really don't see where people are getting this Russia will drop points from argument.

Macedonia missed a penalty relatively late in the game yesterday with Russia paul_oshea. Defensively Russia looked weak against us. They lost at home to a poor Slovakian side. They laboured to a 2-0 victory against Andorra. So yeah I think they'll drop points further along.

What a difference a few days make - we're well a truly back to our default position of competing for 2nd.

Trapp tends to mention "Mentality" during interviews and lot of our expectations for the rest of the group are now based on a dog fight for 2nd as opposed to topping the group and avoiding another potential heartbreak of a playoff.

Keane's missed chances cost us the win last night and reiterates an old theme with Trapp.

The tactics we currently deploy requires a ruthlessness in front of goal when the few opportunities arise.

There's quite a few teams would have dominated less in the first half - that would have put a few past Slovakia last night.

Keane had an off night - and there's reasons for it - he's far from finished, provided he gets first team football and his sharpness should return.

That said - if we continue to pass up these big chances in games - we'll struggle.

I'd like to see McCarthy, Wilson and Treacy all involved against Norway. We've a few to return from injury also.

The next series of head to heads will really shape the group -most notably, the Russians v Armenians and ourselves against our old friends - The Macedonians.

Russia have really got themselves out of a spot and the advantage lies with them for top spot but there's a fair bit to go yet.

Make no mistake - Macedonia will be very tough.

Thing is unlike us they still won the games out.