Lennon is still handy at breaking up opponents play but I agree he is too slow especially for Europe. That's why I think Graveson and Pearson would be a good combination.
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Lennon is still handy at breaking up opponents play but I agree he is too slow especially for Europe. That's why I think Graveson and Pearson would be a good combination.
I don't agree on Pearson, I thought he was as poor as Lennon on Saturday. Lennon spent most of the match in midfield on his own because Pearson has very little positional sense. Pearson doesn't come back to help out Lennon and doesn't pick out any passes. He's not a great player imo.
He has a great work rate and will always bomb forward but he's no central midfielder. A backup player for a 30 minute cameo or a wing role but certainly no central midfielder in a 4-4-2 imo.
I suppose we'll have to see what Strachan has in store for him, interesting how contrasting the views are...Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
What's the latest on Gravesen? I hear the medical cast doubts on the move.
When the CL draw was made I feared the worst but having Jan Vinegar of Van Hooijdonk's Cufflink and Gravesen on board, maybe with Balde back fit, would make a big difference I think.
There was rumour of that this morning but it has been finalised now.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...pe/5290454.stm
Gravesen is a solid signing for Celtic, but will they miss the attacking flair of Petrov, im not sure.
Petrov is sold for up to £8m. That's about the same price as Nakamura, Zurawski, Boruc, Wilson, Jarosik and Gravesen combined. :)
I'm excited about Europe now. The team looks very strong.
Great bit of business in the end by the board for Petrov.
It does indeed. Tonight will be a tough test however...Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
2nd place should be within reach. Really hope so!
I wouldn't be too disappointed with a 1 goal defeat tonight, anything else is a bonus.
I think that Celtic's performance wasn't that bad yesterday. It was even outstanding for 45 minutes...than we conceded a cheap goal. Afterwards we witnessed some poor passing and nervousness for 15'. At the end of the day I have to agree though that United deserved their win since they got the better chances over 90'. The Ref was quite poor. There was never a penalty on Giggs! And what to say about the yellow he brandished at Boruc? Ridiculous. Despite being involved in the 3rd goal Gravesen performed quite well ass did Jan VoH. Boruc outstanding!
The ref was ok - Boruic made contact with Giggs and then pulled his arms away afterwards. Peno - soft but a peno.Quote:
Originally Posted by londonirish17
You're about the only one who thinks that OwlsFan, even the analysts didn't think it was a penalty.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
I thought Celtic applied themsleves well, yes Man Utd had the better chances but that's always going to be the case at Old Trafford regardless of who they are playing.
McGeady was disappointing and I'd have hooked him before Jarosik who although himself was quiet, at least offered himself a little more for the ball and was also a physical threat.
Graveson done a power of work and while I thought he was ok his lack of games was evident in his distribution.
The defence did well when they had to although McManus and Caldwell let Rooney and Saha come for the ball and turn to them far too often. I was pulling my hair out every time as it's only inviting trouble and they sat back too often. Naylor put some great balls in and Hesselink showed his class.
All in all, nothing to fear as I thought and I expect a similar game at Celtic Park.
Scholes was excellent for Man Utd and ran the show I thought.
I'd be curious to listen to Beenhakker's justification for dropping Boruc.
The ref's penalty decision was debatable but doesn't deserve the opprobrium.
DFA, on RTE there was consensus about the ref's decision.
I overheard Dunphy reach for his clichés going on about Gravesons' mistakes as in he can get away with that in Scotland but not at this standard.
Graveson has played once in Scotland.
He will get sharper and Lennon can complement him. I thought Lennon was very good.
Strachan's post match interview was a sight, his brain was mush, all wires were crossed and out came a series of jittery disconnected phrases. Credit due to him for the way the team was prepared.
Although I don't think it was a penno, I can easily see why it was given so I wouldn't fault the ref. Only in the replay did I see Boruc withdraw his arms. Silly goalkeeping to even give the ref a chance to get it wrong. Do Celtic always lose 3-2 when that ref is in charge?
If John O'Shea had put in a midfield performance as bad as Gravesen, or even Carrick, last night could you imagine the hysteria on here? He actually looked the part last night (don't shoot me).
Although I think that Strachan set his stall out far more effectively than Stan did in Germany (easier to do with a CL quality target man I suppose) I think there are similarities between Celtic last night & Ireland in Stuttgart. Good, game performance, good goalkeeping & clearly second best but ultimately a big taste of regret left in the mouth. If only this, if only that...
I'd also like to hear if those clamouring for McGeady to start in Stuttgart still see Stan as a "coward" given his poor showing last night.
Still Celtic are in good shape I think. 4 points against each of Benfica & Copenhagen may well secure second even if they lose to United again.
A couple of other points:
Scholes is 10 times the player that Lampard is.
Did anyone else "know" Nakamura was going to score? I just knew it. I bet eirebhoy did too :) Unfortunately, I felt Boruc would save the penalty (he nearly did) as he's as good against penalties as I've seen.
Yep, knew it too. His best position to strike them is about 5 or 6 yards right of centre, 20-25 yards out. Weird though to see that Saha was the only one who didn't jump and it skimmed inches over him. Can't believe Brown wasn't booked for the foul on Jarosik leading to the free.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Celtic played a fairly decent game. Strachan set the team out well but some players didn't match up to it. Graveson had a nightmare, looked very rusty. He did make a few great trackings back, but a missed tackle and misplaced pass lead to two goals. I thought it was a penalty as Boruc chaged at him and collided with him. A foul in the box no matter how great or little a chance is happening and no matter where the player appears to be headed is still a penalty. I thought Jan VoH had a great game. Hold ups and lay offs are very good, took his goal excellently. Unfortunately he was well knackered by the end. I thought the centre half pairing looked very suspect as both of Gravesons's mistakes resulted in United wlaking right through. Full backs were ok. Thought Naylor's distribution of the ball is very intelligent. Often he looks like he's about to punt it down the line then plays an intelligent accurate ball into the forward's feet. There was positives and negatives. Hopefully Graveson's display is down to rustiness and unfamiliarity.
As for McGeady, his use of the ball is very poor so often. He'd be great is he could learn to pick the proper pass. Maloney is ten times more effecitve. He looks as sharp as ever, can't wait to see him back. The difference with him returning could be immense for Celtic.
I suppose having seen it again at lunchtime I was maybe being harsh. I still don't think it was a penalty myself but can see why it was given however soft it was. If you rush out like Boruc did you're inviting trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by drinkfeckarse
Disappointed with the result, but heartened by the performance and after hearing that the Copenhagen v Benfica match didn't have too much quality in it, I see no reason why we shouldn't get out of the group.
- JVoH, great game, held the ball up well, made Rio look like a fool on a few occasions - Took his goal well but should also have buried the header. Think he could be a big star for us.
- Never a Penalty. I don't blame the ref, I blame Boruc absolutely no need for him to be out there, rush of blood and a rash attempted challenge. Good effort with the Peno but couldn't quite keep it out. Made ammends with some excellent saves later in the game.
- Gravesen. He'll be very disappointed with the two costly mistakes, rustiness or whatever it was will go and he'll be a great player for us, very unfortunate that on both occassions the ball fell to Scholes, who knows how to pick out a pass!! Gravesen did however, cover a lot of ground and made some important challenges, didn't do as much going forward as he did against Aberdeen at the weekend, for obv reasons.
- Lennon. I've been a big fan & supporter of Lennon, despite his many celtic fan critics. However, last night I was disappointed, sooooo off the pace, relied on team mates far too often to do the tracking back and recovering the ball (Gravesen on a few occasions for starters). I know he put in some decent challenges but it wasn't enough for me, the game largely passed him by.
- McGeady, really disppointing considering his season so far. Not to worry he's a great player, he's young and will learn and get better. Im sure Aiden was one of the players Strachan was referring to when he said 'creative players didn't perform' on the night
Defence - Played great IMO. Pity Wilson got injured, he was playing great as was Naylor who whipped in plenty of very dangerous crosses, we just didn't get anyone on the end of them. Great moment in the first half when 3 Celtic defenders threw themselves at the ball to block a Man U shot. The Centre pairing looked a little open at times and Balde will be looking to get back in now that he is back playing in the reserves, perhaps Caldwell might move further up the field??
Atmosphere - Cracking!!!! 6,000 In the Celtic end, plus plenty in the home end as well, great non stop noise, pity we didn't at least get the draw. Its a great stadium, 76k attendance I think.
Scholes/Saha - Brilliant on the night I thought. The rest looked average.
Heres hoping we can build on the performance, Copenhagen in Glasgow next up.
Wasn't his best showing but considering his season so far are you seriously doubting that he isn't better then what was on display in Stuttgart.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I'm not having this penalty was Boruc fault stuff, did Giggs go over deliberately? If so whose fault is that? Did the ref incorrectly give a penalty, whose fault is that? To blame someone who doesn't make a foul for a foul doesn't make sense, Boruc ultimately did not want to take the chance he can hardly be blamed for that.
Overall disappointed because I felt United were very weak at the back and we failed to create enough chances to really exploit this. You don't often get these opportunities to get something out of games at OT in the CL so you have to take them when they arrive. (Esp given our away record in the tornament)
Oh without a doubt. I also "knew" Saha would shoot to the left, as did Boruc. :) The freekick actually had me thinking of how few freekicks Celtic get in that position. Since Nakamura has joined Celtic I can't remember ever hitting the wall and if the ball was placed where it was last night he'll score 9 times out of 10. It might aswell be a peno for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I know this sounds silly but if I was offered last night's outcome before a ball was kicked I'd have taken it. Mainly because the other match ended 0-0. Naka will hopefully be back to his best now after a goal and decent performance. Hesselink's confidence must be sky high, what a take down for the goal. 2 goals in Old Trafford and it makes the players believe they can play with the best teams. Especially considering McGeady, Gravesen, Jarosik and even Nakamura can all play much better.
Next couple of CL days:
Celtic v Copenhagen
Benfica v Man U
Celtic v Benfica
Man U v Copenhagen
Celtic can definitely get 6 points from the next 2 games. United have a revenge match in Lisbon and should comfortabely beat Copenhagen at home. Let's just hope Man U run away with the group and Celtic could be 5 points ahead of Benfica/Copenhagen after 3 games. :)
It's ironic that Lennon is getting slated by Celtic fans when his performance against Man U was applauded by some media in England and Scotland.Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior
His was a masterclass in simplicity re positioning and ball distribution. His choice almost everytime was the best one available, something which escaped the rest of the defence. Minimalism at its best.
Strachan particularily praised his contribution. I regret not seeing more of him when he was at his prime. I can see why O'Neill placed so much trust and confidence in him and still Strachan hangs his hat onto what is left of him.
In a rare position forward late on, his pass out to the left wing was simple and perfect and ended a period of huff and puff.
Sure Gravesen should do the serious tracking back, surely at the wage he's getting I wouldn't expect him to let his granddad do it.
I didn't notice many Lennon tackles, maybe there was a good reason for that :)
His time is coming near but there is still a sharp football brain on that slowing body.
I saw Bobo was on the subs bench.
Lennon has that affect on people, you either think he's sh!te or you think he's a decent player who keeps it simple.
I change my mind from one week to the next :D
Lennon gets slated week in week out by 1000's of Celtic fans and many support the role he plays (me included in the main).Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Obviously thats Lennons, trademark style of play. However its not always the simplest, sometimes its frustatingly the most negative. Again, he almost cost us with a short backpass (resulting in Caldwell having to foul Saha by obstructing him, even though he got away with it). Remember its only 3-4 weeks since he gifted a goal to hearts in the same manner.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
- Thats fine when you are in posession, Utd had the Lions share of that.
- After watching the game again last night on TV, Lennon gave his fair share of ball away, as well as Gravesen and Co.
- At places like OT, you simply can't afford to have one player in your 11 who needs team mates to track back for him, particularly a defensive type player!! Gravesen covered double the ground (25 yard dash, when Lennon was probably 10 yards away) to get back and recover a Lennon error at one point. Additionally Leenon was giving out at McManus for allowing Saha/Scholes a shot from the edge of the box, who was the nearest player to him, not closing down??? Lennon.
I am general a fan of what Lennon does for Celtic, but on Weds we needed more than what he provided.
Indeed, played 90 minutes in the reserves on Tuesday night, defensive injuries meant there might be need to bring him in. Thankfully Varga has gone and we even got money for him!!!! And to think people doubted Roy Keane was a Celtic fan;)Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
It's a strange thing with Bobo. At the time he went off to the last African Nations a lot of people were glad to be rid of him. While he was gone people began to pine for him. I think he's better than Caldwell defensively. Caldwell can hit a better pass but they both get caught dallying on the ball within the vicinity of their own box. Celtic have a good goalkeeper, good full backs, good players down the wing and a good striker. Central defence and midfield look dodgy though. It's a long rebuilding plan for Strachan. Rome wasn't built in a day.
I'd agree with you to a point about central defence but I think Celtic have got some good options in the middle now with Graveson, Jarosik, Lennon, Pearson, Sno and Maloney all capable of doing good things there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
Ah balls. Wilson out for 6 weeks or so with a broken metatarsal. Any player but him. :( Paul Telfer it is...
On basis of Wednesday's performance, yes. On basis of his second half vs Holland and SPL games, no. I was simply asking if it's still now perceived as a cowardly decision. I'd say it was more of a value judgment which Wednesday's showing vindicates.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat O' Banton
Put it this way: McGeady is a better player than he showed ahgainst United. Reid is a better player than he showed against Germany. Nothing proven therefore.
On Boruc, he's got to at least accept part of the blame in my opinion, as an ex-keeper. It's the same as defenders lunging into tackles. It just invites a bad outcome. His decision to chase that ball was an error of judgment in my view.
I've read great things about Sno. Can someone educate me pls?Quote:
Originally Posted by drinkfeckarse
He's big, strong, athletic and young (19 I think). Still not sure what role he would play, certainly hasn't looked to be particuarly creative, so maybe more of a 'breakdown the opponents attack and start attacks' type player
Looked great against Chelsea but average in some of his other bit part performances. Thats about it to be honest, unless someone has seen more of him in Holland.
Has Sno played in any competitive games yet?
I see it's all over the wires that Gravesen has retired from international football. I saw him play his last game for Denmark against Iceland recently.
Probably just as well for Celtic, he was struggling to keep up with the pace of the current Danish game which in the first 25 minutes is played at a breakneck relentless pace.
He hit one sublime 50m pass for their 2nd goal. He was well and truly knackered after an hour and was subbed.
I'm unconvinced about Jarosik so far. Whatever you say about Lennon it's his last season. Pearson is a handy sub to tighten things up, full of pace and energy but ultimately lacks the teachnical ability to be a starter. Maloney is best deployed on the right and Sno is not the finished article by any means. Graveson, well I hope his Man U performance was down to rustiness. I think there will need to be another substantial signing for central midfield in January or the summer. Maybe young Scott Brown off Hibs.Quote:
Originally Posted by drinkfeckarse
If John Kennedy could return to his pre-injury self that played against Barcelona it would be an immense boost and like a new signing.
I didn't think he'd make it until I seen him against Chelsea. He honestly outshone all of Chelsea's midfield that night and was excellent. He's a player that'll probably be playing the holding role in a few years but I certainly wouldn't trust him in that role atm. He's huge and looks a lot older than 19. He seems like a player that can easily make mistakes but his passing is very good and isn't afraid to put himself about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
That Wilson injury has really put me on a downer. I'd actually prefer Nakamura, Venegoor, Gravesen, Balde, Boruc or anyone else to be out for 6 weeks. If only because it means Paul Telfer is forced to play. He might aswell have been playing for Man U on Wednesday.
As for Jarosik. He has played over 30 odd champions league games, Mourinho liked what he saw of him and he did well at Birmingham last season. He was the best player after McGeady in pre-season and followed that up with an excellent performance on the opening day against Kilmarnock. He's been pretty poor since then but how many games has he played in central midfield?
And to be fair he linked up well with JVoHin the Man U game.Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
Although I am a Celtic fan I really appreciated the fact that some fresh air was breezing through the SPL last year with the likes of Hearts and Hibs. For the benefit of the game but certainly for the credential of the SPL it would not be bad if you would could start every season with 3 or 4 pretenders for the title. Unfortunately as things seem to turn out, for the time being at least, everything is set once again for a Celtic vs Rangers title race. I am probably a bit harsh( and I want to apologize to Hearts supporters) but Hearts results on European level against opponents like AEK and Sparta show that they seem not ready to compete at this level and their recent domestic performances are not quite convincing as well, so I think that unless Celtic or Rangers struggle against weaker opponents there will be no surprise this season.
What is your opinion?
This weekend's results suggest Hearts may well actually be Celtic's main threat this year! If Celtic beat Rangers on Saturday it'll be a massive result.
Rangers have been poor enough so far this season, the new manager has brought in a few new players and they're taking time to gel. The UEFA Cup game away from home on thursday doubtless played some part in sunday's peformance too. Celtic seem to be the most consistent team so far in the SPL, and took longer than expected to finish off a well organised Dunfermline side, but Hearts were the same this time last season, so lets not start counting chickens before the eggs have even been laid!!
Le Geun will be under huge pressure if R*****s are beaten on Saturday
the second title is celtics to lose i reckon , it will go down to how we perform on the saturdays áfter our euro games , those are the key victories that could deliver the league
Snos going to be startin tonight against St Mirren in the cis cup, think alot of the fringe players will get a run out tonight.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
It's on Setanta Ireland too.