Once the OWC fans get their heads round this, then they will realise they have no case as the IFA is a BRITISH associationQuote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
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Once the OWC fans get their heads round this, then they will realise they have no case as the IFA is a BRITISH associationQuote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
Hmm, that's not what I remember from a certain qualifier in The Pale, prior to the 1990 World Cup....Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Yes, that's why they had all those players born in Germany, Zambia & Norway, not to mention trying to 'poach' Ade Adebola who'd never even been to The Theme Park, simply on the pretext of a Brit passport. Not to mention numerous journeyman youth internationals who were also eligible for Ireland or the 3 British teams but ultimately may have chosen a future with the North?Quote:
It's a bit convoluted this, isn't it? The Irish FA and its international side predate FIFA and have always followed its rules. You might as well say that RoI football team only picks players from all across Britain due to an excpetion granted by FIFA.
Incidentally, with the possible Cascarino exception, everyone else who played for Ireland was a citizen and eligible for a passport, even Paul Butler.
Nothing to do with a paranoid whim about FIFA.....:rolleyes:
Cascarino's not even a possible exception - he was always fully eligible.
This is something that has only just struck me, but it seems an entirely possible scenario at some point in the future. It would be an interesting prospect were a northern-born player to line out for the FAI all the way through the youth ranks, but, upon failing to make the grade at senior level, decided to switch over to the IFA, assuming they were content to take the player. In theory, the IFA stand to benefit from these players' development through the FAI system as much the FAI stand to benefit from those going in the other direction. That's not to put a specific value on this so-called benefit, if even it is measurable or all that substantial, but it does seriously challenge the arguments and grievances of NI fans along with the cries for compensation for "defectors", contracts of loyalty for under-18s and all that baloney. Have I overlooked something? It seems too obvious to only have just struck me.
Counter-poaching, I suppose you could call it, then. ;)
DI,
That's what one or two others have tried to say on OWB, but they've been 'shot down' in no uncertain terms, such is the tunnel vision on there....
And there must be other examples of people switching availabilty or eligibility around the world, before a full competitive appearance, without the same level of paranoid anguish??
We should all be grateful the criteria for soccer generally, to date, is not as lax as that for cricket or rugby union!!
From what I've read on there of late, the levels of delusion, ignorance and misinformation have reached chronic levels. It's an absolute quagmire of confusion and you'd have to commend anyone with the patience to suffer it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Of course, the IFA were perfectly happy to take back Tony Kane and Michael O'Connor under the former statutes after their professional development had benefited from time spent with the FAI's under-21 set-up. A slight hint of hypocrisy there somewhere? :rolleyes:
Noticed on there, what they called the 'Brazilian loophole' has now been closed, but am highly sceptical this is the case as every month or so, read about Brazilans playing for other international sides, nominally on the basis of residency or citizenship based on marriage. And similarly with various Nigerians, though to a far lesser extent.
And even if FIFA claim these loopholes are now closed, am expecting in the next few years to read about far more players switching nationality or eligibility, in keeping with the trends in rigby and cricket.....
:-(
You need to check out Article 17 of the FIFA Eligibility Statutes.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
I have. And don't believe FIFA will enforce this, or not as they should. Or countries will find other ways round this......
Surprised there is so much faith in the machinations of such an august governing body!!
Are you suggesting that FIFA will turn a blind eye to their own Eligibility Rules?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
If so, what are the ramifications of that, in your opinion?
Well they're not excatly free of corruption or inconsistency. Not saying it'll definitely happen but be pretty surprised if doesn't repeat itself.
The 'ramifications' are such, that them and most teams will muddle on as always. All rules have relative anomalies, which doubtless will be confirmed shortly.
Why the reference to article 17?
What was that you were saying about "a paranoid whim about FIFA"?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
AB was making some point or other about Brazilians.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
But I'm/we're not paranoid about FIFA like your crowd. We've seen how they work, 'warts and all' in recent times....Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
@IFK, their whole premise on Duffy seems to be based on Article 17 of FIFA's eligibility statutes. But then seeing the bigger picture is beyond most of that myopic fanbase.....
Article 17 = acquisition of a new nationality.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
As Not Brazil alluded to, the loophole allowing players to switch from one association to another was made more restrictive in 2003 and further tightened up later. A Brazilian who qualifies for another association since 2003, does so by fulfilling the requirements outlined in article 17. If there are any dodgy examples then it would have to require dodgy paperwork. I seriously doubt if FIFA would participate in such a swindle, too much to lose with dubious gain if any.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Pretty much, Blatter and FIFA took a strong and decisive action over this issue in 2003. Later in June 2008, after the revamping the eligibility rules, Blatter stated at a press conference that the issues like the passports for sale to Brazilians was FIFA's main cause of concern in the revamping of the eligibility statutes, not bona fide dual nationals like the Irish/Gibson who qualified automatically.
You're wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Duffy is, quite clearly, eligible to play for the Republic Of Ireland. You misrepresent the majority opinion on OWC regarding Duffy - most agree that he is eligible for the Republic Of Ireland.
The IFA's, misguided IMO, premise regarding those they see as having no linkage to the Republic Of Ireland, is based on Articles 15 & 16.
A statement from the IFA read: "We do not take this course of action lightly but, in light of recent events and potential future issues, it believes it has no other choice regarding the resolution of player eligibility.
"The decision is taken purely on the grounds of upholding the FIFA statues of article 15 and 16 and that the current situation that exists puts the IFA at a clear disadvantage over all other 206 associations."
It was you who introduced the issue of Brazilians, and I referred you to Article 17 which deals with that kind of situation.
Anyone who trusts Bl*tter, FIFA or the other dubious characters involved are more naive than a class of infants if they reckon that's an end to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
As for being wrong NB, if you accept it fair enough, but maybe you need to explain this elsewhere!
Strange comments from someone who describes others scepticism about FIFA as a "paranoid whim".Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
However, moving on...
You stated that:
" their whole premise on Duffy seems to be based on Article 17 of FIFA's eligibility statutes"
I have refuted that assertion, stating that the majority of Northern Ireland fans on OWC accept that Duffy is eligible for the Republic Of Ireland.
If you wish to refute my statement, please produce evidence to prove that the majority of OWC posters think that Duffy is not eligible to play for the Republic Of Ireland.
Furthermore, if you can link any post that equates Duffy not being eligible for the Republic Of Ireland with Article 17, please do so.
Obviously you didn't read the phrase, 'warts and all'. One thing you'll always outdo us on, is Paranoia! ;)
And don't wish especially to refute your view, but just in case it's not understood, should you have the time and inclination you can explain to OWB directly your exact logic and reasoning. Though I fear it may be a thankless task.
If you read their posts, like the 'illustrious' EG, the 'b' word and worse is scattered about, though to be fair, not by yourself.
I have expressed my views on the (numerous) eligibility threads on OWC at length, explaining both my logic and reasoning.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Are you now accepting of the fact that the majority of posters on OWC do not dispute that Duffy is eligible for the Republic Of Ireland?
Yeah, you have! Which are mainly fine. And would accept a minority of the North's fans accept Duffy's eligibility. So what?
The issue is clearly not whether Duffy is eligible or not, its a case of HOW he is eligible. The majority of the OWC fans seem to think its because of his Donegal parent, which is of course true.
But the reality is that he is eligible due to being born in NI. Just like David Healy, Ian Paisley, George Seawright and Ealing Green (in order of increasing bigotry...) Once the OWC fans take the red pill instead of the blue pill (and not the red, whit & blue pill), they can approach the FAI directly to attempt to negotiate with the honest & trustworthy John Delaney to see how any remaining minor issues can be resolved.
On another note, here is a proposed map of a few FAI training camps that could be set up in the North, once this nasty CAS business is sorted out.
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/4...iningcamps.jpg
The proposed locations are:
Derry
Omagh
Enniskillen
Armagh
Newcastle/Downpatrick
Cookstown/Magherafelt
Ballycastle
West Belfast
This would allow a solid network of poachers to kidnap children, in a sectarian manner of course.
I edging towards Downpatrick over Newcastle as there is a maternity hospital there so we can start poaching from birth.
No point waiting until primary school if Nigel's about, he'll have them playing in the U21's by that stage!
But wouldn't they then refer to us as travellers, gypsies or even the 'k' word, if we went round setting up training encampments everywhere??
Oul Nige will be capping Catholic sperm next!Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
So, you maintain that a majority of Northern Ireland fans think that Duffy is not eligible to play for the Republic Of Ireland, under current Statutes?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Is this based on fact, or a trait of paranoia on your part?:D
I have spoken with many, many Northern Ireland fans on the issue of eligibility - I have yet to meet one who doesn't accept that Duffy is eligible, as Statutes stand, to represent the Republic Of Ireland.
That is not to confuse the diappointment/anger of many that he switched - but that's a different discussion.
:) lolQuote:
Originally Posted by dantheman
If either or both teams had qualified for the world cup do you think this topic would be so busy at this time. I blame somebody ! ! !
Crux of the matter right there.Quote:
Originally Posted by dantheman
The entitlement that exists for people born in 'Northern Ireland' to Irish citizenship and players born there to represent Ireland is a validation of the fact that despite being born within the confines of a British border and living within British occupied territory, these people have every right to dispute and reject those impositions. In the case of football players, neglecting to play for the representative team of the territory is one, very visible way that rejection is manifested. A team so rich in British trappings, even the customary nod to her majesty's welfare is included before a ball is kicked. Fortunately, there exists another team on the island that further validates their position. One which in theory, could feature one representative from every region of the island in a 32 man squad. This team would obviously be the first choice of an Irish citizen, be they players or supporters. All of which leads to a perceived imbalance and great angst for the IFA and their supporters. But it isn't the FAI who are the architects of their ire, rather the means that exist to alleviate and/or accomodate a historical injustice that continues to intrude upon the identities of a large group of people. Challenging those means is disingenuous at best.
Every time I see the title of this thread, I'm reminded how much of a misnomer it is. It may as well be titled 'Should we stop recruiting Irish players'.
I still think it's odd that Duffy's registration is being held up by this case. I know it's a moot point since he got injured, but I don't really get why since there was never any question over his entitlement to switch his registration. Perhaps the FAI/Duffy just left it too late to initiate the switch?
Who said anything about trusting Blatter, I am merely quoting the man and what he said is supported by FIFA actions on the issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
If you can find one dubious eligibility case after 2004 to support your views, then please present it.
Otherwise - wise up. :)
Wasn't George a Glaswegian? He certainly sounded like one.Quote:
Originally Posted by dantheman
Where did you get all that from, the Ladybird book of cartoon Provo cliches? If Trap named a 32 man squad there'd probably be players from Scotland, Wales, NI, England and maybe even Germany in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sullivinho
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/1381/jesuswept.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
'In theory, Lady Gaga could walk on the moon'Quote:
Originally Posted by Sullivinho
'In theory, OJ was innocent.'
'In theory, Norn Iron could qualify for another World Cup'.
etc.
Possibility never submitting to likelihood of course ;)
Haven't got time to post much at present*, but I thought I'd take a moment to congratulate you on getting at least one thing right - the banner was most definitely a joke. Which is why so many people thought it funny. And speaking of "funny", I'll just share this little gem which someone brought to my attention earlier today:Quote:
Originally Posted by dantheman
"11 - The Republic of Ireland were penalised more often for handball than any other team in the European WorldCup qualifiers"
http://twitter.com/optajoe
* - But like Arnie: "I'll Be Back"
You can speak for a majority better than me, but frankly not really bothered anymore what they think 'per se', based on the 'facts' in their collective hostile and paranoid ramblings on OWB towards Duffy and any other nationalist who wants to play for their country....of which various don't seem to have your more reasoned approach??Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Personally have no paranoia towards the North, except with certain embittered 'blow-in' locals to largely refuse to accept the indigenous population's right to assert their own culture! Which maybe you'd also like to deny??
There are various examples, largely involving Africans and South Americans playing for various Europeans teams (& articles on how 'easy' it is to switch nationality!!); just search via Google!Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Bl*tter is a **** and he couldn't run the proverbial drink-up in a brewery.
No he'd probably find 32 Irish citizens, unlike a certain British colony who seem to be unsustainably relying on passing Germans?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Anyway, WD besides, don't you have more pressing arrangements of a monetary nature to deal with........
May we be grateful for that. ;) The banner was indeed a joke, albeit a poor one outside France ! :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
As for Opta, having visited their offices and known their staff would hardly say they were the most reliable judges, but perhaps it's our natural GAA inclination?? ;)
What was the other fella's excuse anyway?? Still karma will arrive shortly.
Hurry back, can't wait to read the next installment of what is appreciated as intelligent thought amongst the owc. Though I suspect that there are a few in the OWC who have copped on and regard you as little more valuable that an overinflated buffoon.
For years this Ealing Green has been presenting toilet rolls of garbage on FIFA eligibility. This lad has presented the most moronic posts on the eligibility issues, day after day, week after week, month after month. Not once has this lad ever got it, even when it was explained in excruciatingly minute detail - he would bounce back the next day as ignorant as he was the day before.
I thought it was miraculous that one could be so intelligently pigheaded and avoid the rational thought process with such determination. It is indeed a difficult achievement.
But here he is again, fully replete with a memory wipe out of any previous discussion, a wipe out of any written FIFA statue, here he is inventing the premise as if he was Moses coming down from the mountain.
Please note that this merry trickster will avoid the core issue and deflect at will. He stands alone as the most dishonest poster in a debate as ever I have experienced on Footie.
I have debated with many here and disagreed with some but I can't recall any poster actually being purposely contrary, purposely avoiding the core issue, purposely ignoring established accepted facts and instead creating an argument based on an invention and presenting it as fact.
Quite simply this Ealing Green is an utter fraud and has not got an ounce of sincerity in learning.
Imagine the absolute sheer deluded arrogance of the man to come here after all these years of and think he has a morsel of sense to offer on the eligibility issue.
Roll on July 19th.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Hopefully it won't be just the IFA who are enlightened.
Arnie??? While foot.ie awaits your next wave of denial and rebuttal, I would suggest that Comcial Ali is a far more apt persona for you to take EalingGreen.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
http://theliberati.net/quaequamblog/...omical_ali.jpg
Should Nick Griffin ever step down, get an application in.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
You know all the right words.