Unemployment

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Originally Posted by Eminence Grise

LR, you’ve taken this far more philosophically and with better grace than I think many others would have.

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ah when you're a male fashion model rejection is a day to day part of the job ...just sticks in the craw a bit when you're overlooked for this guy.
http://i.holmesdale.net/news/1474.jpg

So I'm guessing the job didn't involve dealing with the public...

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Originally Posted by Eminence Grise

So I'm guessing the job didn't involve dealing with the public...

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well, being part of a freak show is kind of dealing with the public, id say.

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Originally Posted by Eminence Grise

I never considered the legality of advertising positions. What I wondered was whether this scheme, which is basically a members’ club scheme, breaches employment law in that it creates an uneven and unfair situation where applicants cannot be measured on their abilities and suitability for the role. Whether the position is filled by confined or open competition doesn't make much difference

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My point was that an employer can employ whoever they want. Whether they're the best person for the job, or whether the best people for the job were precuded from applying for it, isn't a matter of law. Best practice, but not law.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

My point was that an employer can employ whoever they want. Whether they're the best person for the job, or whether the best people for the job were precuded from applying for it, isn't a matter of law. Best practice, but not law.

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Equality legislation? Especially if the scheme is only open to male players. Also could be discriminatory on age grounds. If they try to put other conditions such as married players/ unmarried players it could be discriminatory on Family Status. How multicultural is the GAA? Would that open up Race, Religion and Traveller community? How many GAA players are "out"?

Personally, the more I hear about it, the more I think it won't happen. The GAA have got good publicity, but they'll blame "Red Tape" for it not happening.

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Originally Posted by dahamsta

I'd have my doubts, and I'd hope someone will challenge them on it.

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Fitzgerald was on the Last Word with Matt Cooper last night and I don't think I'm overstating it when I say he'd not have gotten an easier ride in Amsterdam. There was a general tone of 'Sure aren't you a grand fellah and isn't this a great idea altogether'. not one tricky question asked.

Same on Newstalk Breakfast this morning, at least yesterday lunch time newstalk did at least question the fairness of such a scheme.

I've heard it said (possibly by Fitzgerald himself) that football and rugby could do something similar - newsflash for the GAA, football and rugby actually do pay players and not through several convoluted scheme to be seen to be remain amateur.

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Originally Posted by Macy

Equality legislation? Especially if the scheme is only open to male players. Also could be discriminatory on age grounds. If they try to put other conditions such as married players/ unmarried players it could be discriminatory on Family Status. How multicultural is the GAA? Would that open up Race, Religion and Traveller community? How many GAA players are "out"?

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I'm uneasy that some might think I'm defending the GAA. because I'm not. its a ridiculous scheme that will do more harm thatn good to 'the community'

I just don't think its illegal for the GAA to act as an employment agency and offer employers a range of candidates for their jobs.

I think people should be arguing thats its wrong that the best people won't be getting jobs, rather than trying to shoehorn some sort of illegality into it

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Personally, the more I hear about it, the more I think it won't happen. The GAA have got good publicity, but they'll blame "Red Tape" for it not happening.

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Seems the most likely outcome

This may encourgae employers to employ where they may have not in the past. Has anyone looked at that aspect of it?

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Originally Posted by TiocfaidhArmani

This may encourgae employers to employ where they may have not in the past. Has anyone looked at that aspect of it?

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"Down the country"? Not sure what impact it would have on where employment would be. Lots of players already commute home for training/ games.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

I'm uneasy that some might think I'm defending the GAA. because I'm not. its a ridiculous scheme that will do more harm thatn good to 'the community'

I just don't think its illegal for the GAA to act as an employment agency and offer employers a range of candidates for their jobs.

I think people should be arguing thats its wrong that the best people won't be getting jobs, rather than trying to shoehorn some sort of illegality into it

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Not even on the day that's in it would I think you're a GAA defender. However, they are not looking at operating as an employment agency, the proposal is to pay employers to employ certain types. The GAA would be in the clear, it would be the employers that would be flirting with equality legislation, in my (admittedly unqualified) opinion.

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Originally Posted by TiocfaidhArmani

This may encourgae employers to employ where they may have not in the past. Has anyone looked at that aspect of it?

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Yes I have -and it still stinks of masonry.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

I think people should be arguing thats its wrong that the best people won't be getting jobs, rather than trying to shoehorn some sort of illegality into it.

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Absolutely. It might not be illegal but you wouldn't need to be rabidly anti-gaa to think that there's something just off in this. I could reach for far flung analogies like 'what if I were a well heeled ultra-right crank who decided to sponsor local businesses that commited to hiring only in the cohort of white, Irish born males' -but there's no need. There is something conceptually and inherently unjust and unfair in what this guy has proposed that goes way beyond businesses that employ relatives and friends.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

its a ridiculous scheme that will do more harm thatn good to 'the community'.

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darn tootin'. Less so in built up locales but in the Banshas, Brosnas, Oolas and Cappaghs I could see it cause an amount of Coventry-sending, hairy-eyeballing and associated codology.

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Originally Posted by Macy

they are not looking at operating as an employment agency, the proposal is to pay employers to employ certain types. The GAA would be in the clear, it would be the employers that would be flirting with equality legislation, in my (admittedly unqualified) opinion.

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But effectively the GAA would be acting as such an agency. 'GAA leaning' company goes to GAA HQ and says "we need a warehouse assistant". GAA looks up its list of 'suitable candidates' and offers company the chance to interview 4 guys. For this privilige they pay the company €4,000. What could be simpler?

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Originally Posted by Dodge

But effectively the GAA would be acting as such an agency. 'GAA leaning' company goes to GAA HQ and says "we need a warehouse assistant". GAA looks up its list of 'suitable candidates' and offers company the chance to interview 4 guys. For this privilige they pay the company €4,000. What could be simpler?

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You've been thinking about LOI licensing too much Dodge, it's permanently warped the way your brain works! ;)

But thats exactly what they're proposiong to do!

Dodge is right to an extent. It is in violation of human rights to not give someone a job based on the fact that they are old, or that they are gay or that they are divorced. Agency is not illegal.

Not sure how things work in the unionised environment back home but in Canada most unions promote the idea of seniority, ie, the most senior qualified employee (that applies) will get the job. Such a system may arbitrarily exclude a disabled person (for example) but they wouldnt be not getting the job because of their disability. Its a similar distinction here between the argument around equality legislation and what the GAA are doing.

It is a bit stinky though!

I bet any money the GAA won't go through with this. They've got their time in the media and spread the word about how great they are looking out for the unemployed and how foreign games don't care but can they really afford it?
They're going to have to bail out county boards and clubs all over the country soon anyway

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Originally Posted by cornflakes

I bet any money the GAA won't go through with this. They've got their time in the media and spread the word about how great they are looking out for the unemployed and how foreign games don't care but can they really afford it?
They're going to have to bail out county boards and clubs all over the country soon anyway

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Ha ha, Thomas Davis! :)

Yeah, if I was a cynical man (and I am), I'd almost think they were deliberately doing something that is a bit of a legal grey area, and is likely to be forbidden by the courts. Then they get all the fawning for being a great organisation, without spending a single cent, and help reinforce the "us against them" attitude that is so prevalent in parts of that organisation.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

I'm uneasy that some might think I'm defending the GAA. because I'm not. its a ridiculous scheme that will do more harm thatn good to 'the community'

I just don't think its illegal for the GAA to act as an employment agency and offer employers a range of candidates for their jobs.

I think people should be arguing thats its wrong that the best people won't be getting jobs, rather than trying to shoehorn some sort of illegality into it

Seems the most likely outcome

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I am surprised that there have been so many posts on this. When GAA is mentioned, whatever is still functioning in your sanity, appears to go into hiding:) You all do realise that this is just one guy, a provincial level board member, indulging in cute hoorism, i.e. appearing to be generous (with someone elses money) and taking the credit for it. I suspect his motives are self-serving, something that benefits this obscure GAA official from free publicity, as there is not a snowball's chance in hell that his plan will gain anything more than gentle derision.
Anyway, emigrating GAA players are generally not lost to the GAA. A talented player emigrating will most certainly gravitate to a GAA club who have the contacts to get him good employment. Place your long term bets on New York getting to the Connacht Final, in 3 or 4 years time.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Anyway, emigrating GAA players are generally not lost to the GAA. A talented player emigrating will most certainly gravitate to a GAA club who have the contacts to get him good employment. Place your long term bets on New York getting to the Connacht Final, in 3 or 4 years time.

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Sure they got to the Ulster Hurling Final in 2006.

Update: Unemployment remaining relatively static overall at 440k, with minor swings either way on certain months.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0201/liveregister.html

While the headline figure has fallen in January, the emigration figures are holding up and imo the major reason behind it. We are still a long way from significant recovery, and the latest minor fall shouldn't be taken as a reason to celebrate.