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29/09/2020, 11:10 PM
tetsujin1979

Mark, numbers of views have no bearing on credibility. The Sun is the biggest selling newspaper in England, the Daily Mail is one of the highest trafficed newspaper websites in the world. Neither are anyway credible.
I never said Trump called all Mexicans rapists, I said he claimed the Mexicans coming into the country were rapists, and I provided a video of him saying that.
Can you provide a link of any main stream media outlet claiming Trump called all Mexicans rapists, like I asked?
29/09/2020, 11:50 PM
mark12345

Quote:

Originally Posted by ontheotherhand

Mark, fair play for keeping a reasonably civil tone but please keep the casual Mexican racism in check. You provided 0 sources again to back up some very inflammatory opinions above. I live in a Mexican dominated community and they are lovely people, undeserving of your generalizations. Their music is ****e mind....

Most importantly though - Why do you think Fox is reliable because of viewership numbers? You think they are held to journalistic standards because they have more eyes on them? You know MSNBC and CNN combined have more viewers right? And you'd lump them in your category of MSM with similar views so why don't they get held to the same standards as Fox?
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/li...uarter-1301220

Here's a quick example of how viewership might not work for you as a sign of truth with another large media source reporting the opposite of what you've been told, evidently on Fox:

You've said most of the protests are violent yes? That's nonsense. You've believed a narrative based on a handful of Youtube clips and a few paid talking heads on Fox who know their audience and want ratings so they aim for stoking prejudice and fear in a scared and prejudiced country. Sure I could send you as many clips of unwarranted police brutality or obvious agitators out there trying to incite violence at peaceful protests. I've been at 3 protests and seen 0 violence, once as part of the protest and twice just stuck in the traffic they created. There's a first hand account but more reliably (for you) should be Time.com reporting that 93% of the protests are are peaceful.

Time is the largest weekly magazine in the world with a viewership in the US of 20m. Its online arm alone get's 27.1M unique visitors. So it would be under the same scrutiny as Fox by your logic yeah? How could they come up with such a different worldview to yours? Time is owned by Marc Benioff, a previous Republican and now Independent who has donated to candidates from multiple parties but has moved away from making political statements since buying Time. So hardly a puppet of the ever-powerful-but-not-actually-in-power Democrats?

https://time.com/5886348/report-peaceful-protests/

So you are being fed a narrative by your exclusive diet of right wing opinion sites and "news analysts" and you haven't sought to question it at any point despite the well known issues Fox has had with sticking to the facts:
https://www.politifact.com/article/2...fox-news-lies/ - there's a fact check of a fact check about the lies that regularly pop up as facts on Fox. Feel free to fact check the fact check.

Now if you want to discuss the 7% of protests that are violent I'd be happy to. As a man who gets his news from youtube videos, I'd ask how angry you'd be if, for example, your family members, friends or those in your community were being gunned down without cause by the people paid to protect them and you were being shown videos of the murders over and over again. Might you get a bit angry? In a cauldron of tear gas, militarized police, inflammatory rhetoric from the president and heightened tensions, might you throw an auld shoe here or there?

I'd agree that the media in America is generally biased one way or the other and certainly uses fear to drive ratings so I'm not exactly sure why you think Rupert Murdoch's Fox is any different given how afraid of Mexicans and BLM it seems to have made you. Why wouldn't you attempt to find unbiased sources given how politicized and polarized everything is here and why do you trust everything you watch on tv given that you think the MSM (which oddly doesn't include Fox for you despite your knowledge of how truly mainstream it is here) is controlled by one political party? Would it not be more effective to read a wider spectrum of sources and engage a bit of critical thinking than to sit in front of what's being fed to you and accept it as fact without concern?

As you said before - "Everything I have posted over the last couple of days is a true account of what I have watched on TV, I promise you." - I believe you. Might be time to step away from the TV for a bit.

Ontheotherhand - I have no problem talking with you and welcome different opinions on the topic at hand, but PLEASE PLEASE retract that word 'racism'. I have not uttered one racist word in my posts. I said that young girls from Central America have been raped by the human traffickers as they trek across the desert to the US (that information was given to DT by the border authorities and it's been happening before he ever got to Washington). You reduce your legitimacy by throwing out the R-word. Now, I am hoping that you will apologise - perhaps a slip of the pen, if that's what it was it doesn't make you a bad person.

And about Mexican people. I have worked with Mexicans - funny guys, hard workers, good family people. Very like the Irish in many respects. Their country is being held to ransom by the cartels but those scumbags who rape those kids will meet their maker one day. No getting away from the fact that they are involved in the industry which is drug smuggling across the southern border. But again there are good people and bad people among the Mexican population, just like the Irish.

Moving on, you speak about the protests. And you say they are not violent? Let's examine that statement for a second. So you are telling me that what has been put on our TV screens each night this summer, of the burning and looting in places like Atlanta, Minneapolis, Seattle, Portland, Boston, New York, Kenosha Wisconsin - that violence, looting and burning didn't happen? What about the deaths of 25 - 30 people during these 'peaceful protests'? Surely there are death warrants to accompany these people's deaths? In addition, I have seen my own city destroyed (windows smashed in department stores, looters emptying stores and generally running riot). Is that nonsense also? Have you seen Manhattan lately? Every high-end store is boarded up. And what about the murdered police officers like David Dorn in St Louis?. His widow has appeared on TV mourning his death. Is that nonsense also?

What about the lawyer couple in St Louis who were enjoying dinner in their home (more of a mansion than a home) only to look out the window and discover a couple of hundred BLM 'protesters' on their lawn, they having broken down the gates to their property. The intruders threatened to take over their home and kill their dog etc etc. The homeowners then brandish firearms which ultimately saved their lives. All of a sudden they are arrested and charged with some deranged charge by the city DA. I believe their name was McCloskey and they were staunch Democrats and contributors to BLM. They quickly changed their political affiliation. Are you telling me all of that is nonsense?

You can say I am being fed a narrative (and that's fine because I am not naieve enough to think that Fox News doesn't go out of its way to ramp it up for its viewers because they too have investors to satisfy) but being lied to on a scale that you describe would just destroy their credibility completely. Remember they pride themselves on being everything that CNN and MSNBC are not, which is telling the truth even if it's having a go at DT as some of their commentators have done. And finally, about Fox News, they are lost quite a bit of credibility lately due to the reported links to George Soros's money. Newsmax and One America News are waiting in the wings to take over if anything happens to Fox.
30/09/2020, 12:25 AM
mark12345

Quote:

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Mark, numbers of views have no bearing on credibility. The Sun is the biggest selling newspaper in England, the Daily Mail is one of the highest trafficed newspaper websites in the world. Neither are anyway credible.
I never said Trump called all Mexicans rapists, I said he claimed the Mexicans coming into the country were rapists, and I provided a video of him saying that.
Can you provide a link of any main stream media outlet claiming Trump called all Mexicans rapists, like I asked?

Why the heck are you still awake at 10 past midnight? Don't you have work to get to in the morning?

"Numbers of views have no bearing on credibility."
Ok, that's a fair comment. I would agree that it's content over number of views / viewers. And when you throw in the Sun and Daily Mail as examples your point is hard to refute (I remember both papers back in the day, both were very much speculation rags).
Only problem with that Tets, is in America everything under the sun in the media industry is measured by ratings - excellent TV dramas have been cancelled due to low ratings, movies have been deemed failures if they don't gross millions upon millions of dollars, and yes Fox and CNN beat one another up over ratings. Your number on ratings are way different than those I've seen, but be that as it may.

As far as chasing another link (MSM outlet claiming Trump called all Mexican rapists), I will set off again on that quest. But don't put a timeline on me.
I posted enough links for all of us yesterday. Wouldn't you agree?
30/09/2020, 12:51 AM
mark12345

Quote:

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Mark, numbers of views have no bearing on credibility. The Sun is the biggest selling newspaper in England, the Daily Mail is one of the highest trafficed newspaper websites in the world. Neither are anyway credible.
I never said Trump called all Mexicans rapists, I said he claimed the Mexicans coming into the country were rapists, and I provided a video of him saying that.
Can you provide a link of any main stream media outlet claiming Trump called all Mexicans rapists, like I asked?

You will probably not see this until the morning but here goes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jaz1J0s-cL4

CNN interviews DT back in 2015. Anchor is pressing the rapist thing. The caption is "Trump Doubles Down On Calling Mexicans Rapists."
But if you watch the video he says some of the Mexicans crossing the border are rapists and some are good people.

How are you making out with your link to show that Trump said white supremacists / KKK are good people? Did you happen to find it?
30/09/2020, 1:11 AM
ontheotherhand

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark12345

Ontheotherhand - I have no problem talking with you and welcome different opinions on the topic at hand, but PLEASE PLEASE retract that word 'racism'. I have not uttered one racist word in my posts. I said that young girls from Central America have been raped by the human traffickers as they trek across the desert to the US (that information was given to DT by the border authorities and it's been happening before he ever got to Washington). You reduce your legitimacy by throwing out the R-word. Now, I am hoping that you will apologise - perhaps a slip of the pen, if that's what it was it doesn't make you a bad person.

And about Mexican people. I have worked with Mexicans - funny guys, hard workers, good family people. Very like the Irish in many respects. Their country is being held to ransom by the cartels but those scumbags who rape those kids will meet their maker one day. No getting away from the fact that they are involved in the industry which is drug smuggling across the southern border. But again there are good people and bad people among the Mexican population, just like the Irish.

Moving on, you speak about the protests. And you say they are not violent? Let's examine that statement for a second. So you are telling me that what has been put on our TV screens each night this summer, of the burning and looting in places like Atlanta, Minneapolis, Seattle, Portland, Boston, New York, Kenosha Wisconsin - that violence, looting and burning didn't happen? What about the deaths of 25 - 30 people during these 'peaceful protests'? Surely there are death warrants to accompany these people's deaths? In addition, I have seen my own city destroyed (windows smashed in department stores, looters emptying stores and generally running riot). Is that nonsense also? Have you seen Manhattan lately? Every high-end store is boarded up. And what about the murdered police officers like David Dorn in St Louis?. His widow has appeared on TV mourning his death. Is that nonsense also?

What about the lawyer couple in St Louis who were enjoying dinner in their home (more of a mansion than a home) only to look out the window and discover a couple of hundred BLM 'protesters' on their lawn, they having broken down the gates to their property. The intruders threatened to take over their home and kill their dog etc etc. The homeowners then brandish firearms which ultimately saved their lives. All of a sudden they are arrested and charged with some deranged charge by the city DA. I believe their name was McCloskey and they were staunch Democrats and contributors to BLM. They quickly changed their political affiliation. Are you telling me all of that is nonsense?

You can say I am being fed a narrative (and that's fine because I am not naieve enough to think that Fox News doesn't go out of its way to ramp it up for its viewers because they too have investors to satisfy) but being lied to on a scale that you describe would just destroy their credibility completely. Remember they pride themselves on being everything that CNN and MSNBC are not, which is telling the truth even if it's having a go at DT as some of their commentators have done. And finally, about Fox News, they are lost quite a bit of credibility lately due to the reported links to George Soros's money. Newsmax and One America News are waiting in the wings to take over if anything happens to Fox.

No mark, I wont apologize to you for your own words. Read your statement generalizing "the mexicans" again. Or provide evidence to back it up. Maybe you intended to specify a small proportion but you didnt initially. I didnt call you a racist but your statement was. Im glad you rolled it back though.

And as usual you havent answered any questions or given any sources before deflecting to a new topic.

Was their opportunistic looting? Of course. We are in the middle of a pandemic and people are out of work and desperate. Does that mean all the protests were violent as you say? Does it diminish the message of the peaceful protests? No, thats just your view based on the narrative you were fed. It's been disproven. Again, I have been in the peaceful protests. Again, data shows 93% were peaceful. Thats leaves 7% that was put on your tv to rile you up. Did you not see the violence commited by police and agitators? Why do you ignore that? Because your sources have no interest in being balanced; they wanted you to be afraid and angry enough to keep watching.

As for the McCloskeys. Again your narrative is at odds with what is known. They weren't democrats (they've donated to both sides but mainly Trump recently) and they showed 0 support for BLM until after the incident. Again your take is skewed and designed to paint one side in the wrong and absolve the other completely. Id guess a few people acted out of order that day and Id include the couple pointing guns at people walking by in a peaceful protest. No evidence was found that their gate was broken by protestors (id guess it was but only later) and McCloskey was found to be lying about the order of events. There is video footage
online that show peaceful protestors walking through a completely intact gate before McCloskey arrives on his porch with a rifle. 0 records of them calling the police either. His wife came out with her finger on the trigger of a handgun ffs. The fox interview version had McCloskey stating that a mob of 100 broke his gate, rushed his home and threatened to kill them all and the family dog before he brought out his rifle. Watch the video in here and tell me what you see though.
https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/lo...e-41d5d4d71b61

if you come at people with a rifle and a pistol you're probably at risk of a response no? A broken gate isnt too bad if it was indeed the marchers. Thats up for debate. They drew guns on a protest out of fear and escalated the whole thing. I dont blame them for being scared to be honest as 100s of people protesting past your house could be intimidating especially given the thrust if the protest and the history of the area they live in (not that they seem to have been under threat) but their response was poor. Their own neighbors condemned them including a Rabbi whose beehives McCloskey had smashed before. Nobody was hurt thankfully but the result was more polarized and politicized bull**** from fox and beyond. Its so tiresome. It played perfectly for trump of course and allowed him to start his warnings about urban thugs invading the suburbs. I wonder what he means there.

You've consistently been called out for highly questionable sources yet you don't seem to bend on anything, usually just coming back with more fox stories rhat arent based in reality instead of reading the contrary evidence from proper sources and debating them or revising your opinion. I know thats tough to do sometimes but you keep digging your heels in based on false information or deflecting to side issues like the mccloskeys.

Here are several different viewpoints on the incident that day some of which I included above.

https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...who-pointed-g/

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-53891184

https://forward.com/news/national/45...eaks-out-they/

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...0225dd287.html

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2020/06/...s-in-st-louis/

https://www.vox.com/2020-presidentia...k-lives-matter
30/09/2020, 9:25 AM
dahamsta

@mark12345 Provide sources for your claims as required in this forum, and requested yesterday, and provided by everyone else, or you will be suspended. You've received two infractions today for two completely unsourced posts, and they weren't the only ones, I could easily have given you a third that would have resulted in suspension. This is your final warning. Evidence, or go.
30/09/2020, 7:18 PM
mark12345

Quote:

Originally Posted by dahamsta

@mark12345 Provide sources for your claims as required in this forum, and requested yesterday, and provided by everyone else, or you will be suspended. You've received two infractions today for two completely unsourced posts, and they weren't the only ones, I could easily have given you a third that would have resulted in suspension. This is your final warning. Evidence, or go.

Don't know what you are looking at but I have provided, what 7, 8 links in the past couple of days. I posted about defunding the police and Antifa / BLM violence and was asked to provide links. I provided several. Tets asked me to provide a link last night and I did. AND SUDDENLY NOW YOU ARE ASKING ME TO PROVIDE SOURCES??? What exactly are you talking about?

I provided Prager U as a source as well as FOX TV, Rush Liimbaugh etc. But my sources are no good despite the fact that millions upon millions of Americans are avid listeners and contributors to same and they have track records going back decades. My sources are no good and everyone elses's are fine. I have asked someone on here to show evidence of the lie that was told about Charlottesville, but that evidence has not been provided. That doesn't concern you in the slightest?

It was the same the last time. I provided links but you went ahead and suspended me anyway. YOU CLEARLY HAVE AN ANTI-TRUMP AGENDA. THAT IS VERY PLAIN TO SEE. And you are the moderator? Seriously?
Enjoy your very closed minded very one sided forum.
30/09/2020, 8:01 PM
Real ale Madrid

You'd miss Crosby / KrisLeTang and his tales of golfing trips with Rudy Giuliani
01/10/2020, 2:38 AM
samhaydenjr

Trump is scum
01/10/2020, 9:49 AM
Neish

So much nonsense here I'll have to take is statement by statement

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark12345

And about Mexican people. I have worked with Mexicans - funny guys, hard workers, good family people. Very like the Irish in many respects. Their country is being held to ransom by the cartels but those scumbags who rape those kids will meet their maker one day. No getting away from the fact that they are involved in the industry which is drug smuggling across the southern border. But again there are good people and bad people among the Mexican population, just like the Irish.

Yes cartels rule mexico, but their power comes from the demand for their products in the so called first world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark12345

Moving on, you speak about the protests. And you say they are not violent? Let's examine that statement for a second. So you are telling me that what has been put on our TV screens each night this summer, of the burning and looting in places like Atlanta, Minneapolis, Seattle, Portland, Boston, New York, Kenosha Wisconsin - that violence, looting and burning didn't happen? What about the deaths of 25 - 30 people during these 'peaceful protests'? Surely there are death warrants to accompany these people's deaths? In addition, I have seen my own city destroyed (windows smashed in department stores, looters emptying stores and generally running riot). Is that nonsense also? Have you seen Manhattan lately? Every high-end store is boarded up. And what about the murdered police officers like David Dorn in St Louis?. His widow has appeared on TV mourning his death. Is that nonsense also?

I don't think anyone is saying there is zero violence at BLM etc protests, what we are saying is 99% pass of peacefully but they are not newsworthy so get little coverage

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark12345

What about the lawyer couple in St Louis who were enjoying dinner in their home (more of a mansion than a home) only to look out the window and discover a couple of hundred BLM 'protesters' on their lawn, they having broken down the gates to their property. The intruders threatened to take over their home and kill their dog etc etc. The homeowners then brandish firearms which ultimately saved their lives. All of a sudden they are arrested and charged with some deranged charge by the city DA. I believe their name was McCloskey and they were staunch Democrats and contributors to BLM. They quickly changed their political affiliation. Are you telling me all of that is nonsense?

That couple were in no danger, yes a small group of the protest broke a gate to march down a private estate, not supporting that but they were not on that couple property and the couple were never in any danger until they chiose to confront the protest with firearms. There were many other residents of that estate who choose not to confront the marchers

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark12345

You can say I am being fed a narrative (and that's fine because I am not naieve enough to think that Fox News doesn't go out of its way to ramp it up for its viewers because they too have investors to satisfy) but being lied to on a scale that you describe would just destroy their credibility completely. Remember they pride themselves on being everything that CNN and MSNBC are not, which is telling the truth even if it's having a go at DT as some of their commentators have done. And finally, about Fox News, they are lost quite a bit of credibility lately due to the reported links to George Soros's money. Newsmax and One America News are waiting in the wings to take over if anything happens to Fox.

Ah there it is, Gerorge Soros every time right wing wealthy elites are brought up someone mentionS Gerorge Soros, the Hungarian billionaire that apparently controls all the worlds media, funds BLM(even though BLM is not an organisation) , funds every little fringe left wing radical group. Yes he has much influence but anywhere near how it is played out. Neither is he radical left and is vastly outnumbered by those on the right in the wealthy billionaire ranks
01/10/2020, 10:38 AM
dahamsta

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark12345

Don't know what you are looking at but I have provided, what 7, 8 links in the past couple of days. I posted about defunding the police and Antifa / BLM violence and was asked to provide links. I provided several. Tets asked me to provide a link last night and I did. AND SUDDENLY NOW YOU ARE ASKING ME TO PROVIDE SOURCES??? What exactly are you talking about?

I provided Prager U as a source as well as FOX TV, Rush Liimbaugh etc. But my sources are no good despite the fact that millions upon millions of Americans are avid listeners and contributors to same and they have track records going back decades. My sources are no good and everyone elses's are fine. I have asked someone on here to show evidence of the lie that was told about Charlottesville, but that evidence has not been provided. That doesn't concern you in the slightest?

It was the same the last time. I provided links but you went ahead and suspended me anyway. YOU CLEARLY HAVE AN ANTI-TRUMP AGENDA. THAT IS VERY PLAIN TO SEE. And you are the moderator? Seriously?
Enjoy your very closed minded very one sided forum.

You received two infractions yesterday, for unsourced posts. The posts had no sources. End of story.

Any further posts without sources will be infracted, and you will be automatically suspended. If you don't want to be suspended, include sources in your posts. Not on request, not later, in your posts.

This is not America, you are not Donald Trump. We have rules, and shouting like Trump at the debate won't work here. Obey our rules or leave our site.
03/10/2020, 7:57 AM
osarusan

So Trump has Covid 19 and is in hospital, will work from there for the next few days at least. As a 74-year old who is overweight, he needs to look after himself first and foremost.

From a political perspective, it will have some impact on his campaign as he loves the energy of the big crowds right in front of him and hasn't done a whole lot of remote stuff. Expect him to be even more active on twitter I suppose. Maybe more pre-recorded videos in which he comes across as calmer and more composed, and mentions actual policy, might help him project that image.

Mostly though, there are pretty much no undecideds left on Trump by this stage, so I don't see it making much difference really.
03/10/2020, 10:10 AM
John83

I expect it's less about undecideds now so much as voter mobilisation/suppression. Obama won 60 million votes to 40. Clinton lost 40:40 to Trump. Turnout is everything.
03/10/2020, 10:11 AM
Real ale Madrid

Trump has no chance of winning the election 8 points behind with a month to go with the electorate so polarized. What would be interesting is if he became incapacitated due to illness. Do the Republicans go with Pence or elect someone else?
03/10/2020, 9:32 PM
dahamsta

They said Trump wouldn't win in 2016. Even Trump was shocked by the win. He didn't even want to win.
03/10/2020, 11:16 PM
The Fly
03/10/2020, 11:26 PM
The Fly

Also...Melania's handling it, statistically, like it's supposed to be handled.
03/10/2020, 11:59 PM
samhaydenjr

Quote:

Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

Trump has no chance of winning the election 8 points behind with a month to go with the electorate so polarized. What would be interesting is if he became incapacitated due to illness. Do the Republicans go with Pence or elect someone else?

Voter Suppression
Voter Intimidation
Sympathy Vote
Electoral College
Legal Challenge to result
6-3 majority on The Supreme Court
"Proud Boys - Stand back and stand by"

I know some of those aren't scenarios where he actually wins the election but it's far from over - it's going to be a rough couple of months
04/10/2020, 7:46 AM
Real ale Madrid

Hillary Clinton was roughly 4% ahead of Trump with a month to go, Biden has double that plus a healthy advantage in all of the key states. Could be wrong of course but I'm not sure Putin and the boys can even pull this one off.
04/10/2020, 5:22 PM
dahamsta

The stuff going around about the video and the photos in Walter Reed is hilarious. If it came from the red side, we'd be calling them conspiracy theories, and I'm sure that's what the Trumpists are saying. However factually, the EXIF data on the two "separate" photos of him signing papers are just minutes apart, which is just typical Trump bull****.

I've no idea about the veracity of the "blank pages" and edited video claims, but I wouldn't put it past them for a second.

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