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I can remember watching an interview when Tardelli mentioned Harte when talking about Long and Reading. Harte has every right to be ****ed off at being ignored as he is playing very well but if the management don't rate him then thats it. I watched him against Leeds recently and his general play was good but he still has a real problem defending headers. Maybe thats why he was not selected.
Looks to me like 'Longey' has done a sweetie of a wind up on 'Hartey'Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er
Hartey : Did you mention me Longey, did you mention me to Trap?
Longey : I did, of course I did, Hartey but he said he has never heard of you.... Never.
Trap isn't putting in the effort a manager should. Stan the muppet did travel and go to loads of games though, it didn't do him much good. It's nearing the time for Mick McCarthy to return anyways. If Trap isn't the man to lead us to the next World Cup, McCarthy is the only manager the likes of Given, Dunne, Duff and Keane will really play for with passion and drive.
I wouldn't want Harte in a squad, regardless of who the manager is.Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
As for the next manager, at World Cup 2014, it's not going to be a concern of Duff, Dunne or Keane, they won't be there.
Can you name 3 left backs playing regularly for their clubs in that position, at the same or higher level than Harte? You must be able to if you don't think hes worthy of consideration for the Squad.
I know club form isn't everything but I don't think we're in a position to dismiss the voted best left back in the championship as not good enough for even a squad place. Personally I'd start him at LB on current form, I accept that may not be a view shared by everyone but I couldn't understand anyone who'd dismiss him and not consider him in the mix for a squad place considering our current dirth of LB talent.
Not to mention the prospect of having one of the best free kick takers in the world at our disposal.
If Kilbane at 34 and in League One is still in our starting lineup its a safe bet that when the campaign starts for the world cup in 2012 a 32 year old Keane, Dunne and a 33 year old Duff will have no problems whatsoever to be key members of the squad. You make me laugh, sir.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
Harte's right to be offended if the existing Manager doesn't know he's Irish. Assuming it's true which is highly likely. He's also right with the dig at Trapp for not going to games in the UK....
Don't think he warrants a call up though
Why do people believe that Trap doesn't know Harte is Irish. Do you really think he knows that Simon Cox, Paul Green and Caleb Folan are, but not Ian Harte who played in our last World Cup, despite playing with several Irish players? It's complete bull****, whether it be from Harte or the press.
Harte could never defend when he was younger. For a team of our quality who will be under the kosh for x amount of any given game, carrying a 34 year old dodgy defender for his attacking or free kick taking ability would be ridiculous.
Hes 33, and he's a substantially better defender than Kilbane. Theres a statistic for Reading showing the number of clean sheets they've kept this season are considerably less when hes not playing.
The first half of Jicked's post stacks up. It'd be simply astonishing if Trap and his entourage (Givens :(, Martin et al) had not considered Harte. Geysir has quoted Tardelli on the issue.
I personally think he has made a value judgment that Killer, Cunningham, Clark and now Ward, not to mention Delaney or O'Dea, are the left backs he's going to work with. I defend all managers' rights to make value judgments even if I don't agree with them.
As opposed to playing a left sided League 1 midfielder there, also 34, who has made countless errors there over the past year or two, some very costly? I do agree that Trap undoubtedly knows who he is though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jicked
We have a quote from Tardelli a year ago discussing Harte. It seems faulty communication is as rife in the Reading camp as it is in Malahide.
I would dispute Tardelli's assertion that we have younger players with the same qualities as Harte. As far as I know we don't have any left fulls who can score goals, take brilliant set-pieces and display such a range of passing. It's his lack of athleticism and concentration I'd have a problem with.
If Harte were to be called up to the squad, the rest of the players would get unlimited milage out of his wind up potential.
edit - they probably wouldn't even notice he was there.
Taxi for Harte re Swansea's second goal. Running in treacle.
him against wallcott or lennon would be entertaining. doesn't look like happpening at the moment.
Yeah, that was pretty horrible. I think that's the end of his international aspirations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
oh Dear. Brendan Rodgers has done his homework on Harte.
Was that Harte just skinned for the 3rd goal? My PC is the other end of the room, and saw a left back getting skinned. but couldn't see if it was Harte.
Some finish. Reading are fcuked now.
Harte and Khizanishvili... They're like the 'Blues Brothers 2000' to Nesta and Cannavaro's original aren't they?
Harte was caught out of position up near the halfway line and couldn't get back. Very noticeable right from the start of the game that Swansea targetted Reading's left hand side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Dion Fanning and Richie Sadlier joint email to The Indo's HR dept:
Can I have a few weeks off please? Need to keep a low profile for a bit.
Just as well it wasn't the current incumbent either....
Bad news for Irish left-backs & play-offs this w/e.
Great header from Hunt!!
I don't think Harte was targeted specifically. The entire backline is short on pace. Griffin got skinned a good few times too, and neither Mills nor Kizinizza has any pace either. They rely on Kebe and McAnuff to cover the full backs but Kebe wasn't fit and McAnuff got himself a stupid booking.
BBC 5 live summariser Robbie Savage: "Incredible couple of minutes. What we saw there for the second goal is Ian Harte's lack of pace. Stephen Dobbie was five yards behind him but he beat Harte to the ball and rolled it across for Scott Sinclair."
If you spent less time being an ass, sir, and more time reading what others type, we'd fair far better. At World cup 2014, like I said, Mr Dunne will be a couple months shy of 35, Mr Duff will be a couple months past 35, while Master Keane will be 34. If all 3 are still key members of our squad, I'll make a donation to the charity of your choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
More so, if all 3 are still key members of our squad, and by extension the team, then I'll suggest we won't be at World Cup 2014, as Father Time will have caught up with us, and made an example.
Kevin Kilbane has a couple of attributes Ian Harte has never had - pace and ability in the air. In a time of relative shorties, he's a giant, and offers a tremendous amount defensively and offensively at set pieces.
I'm glad I amuse you.
Depends on what you want in the composition of a squad. Personally I wouldn't have three left backs in any squad, for friendly, qualifier or tournament. 3 keepers is par, and I wouldn't bring more than 8 defenders, particularily when so many of them are versatile, and Coleman can be an emergency full back if necessary. This would allow (in a 23man squad) 12 players to be chosen for midfield and defence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
If all things were equal, presently, with everyone available for selection and fit, this would be my defensive "unit" of a squad:
So in a sense, yes I have shown who I feel is ahead of Harte in the pecking order; Marc Wilson and Stephen Ward - both playing regularily at a level above Ian Harte in the same position. Ward was usurped by Elokobi, I'm prepared for that retort, while Wilson, sure he is only there as a consequence of Danny Higginbotham being injured. Given that there is a pressing need for youth, Only for a nasty leg break, I believe Greg Cunningham would have proven to be a very decent full back, while Stephen O'Halloran if he can remain fit, may follow up on the promise he showed during the trip to the States in 07.Quote:
Given, Westwood, Kenny
Foley, Ward, Dunne, O'Shea, St Ledger, Clark, Wilson
Do we need harte in a squad, or more importantly in the team purely because of his free kicks? We've got a couple of players who are pretty decent over the deadball as it stands.
"Trapattoni finished his discussion of the Drogheda native with what appeared to be an insult in Italian. "He doesn't like Harte," was Manuela's diplomatic translation." :bigsmile:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...s-2661494.html
In fairness, Trap's retort that when he does go to watch Irish players, they don't even play or only get 10 minutes certainly has a ring of truth and good reasoning to it! The first half of this season in England was unbelievable.
When I was reading his reply I caught myself going "DUH", this is why he's one of the most successful managers of all time and we are on the internet commenting about his ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I'll hold you to that because I think all 3 of them will be there. While theres no guarantee we'll qualify for anything I can assure you all 3 will be key members of the qualification squad. As will Shay Given who you didn't mention but I'll assume hes in the same "put out to pasture" bracket in your mind. We just simply don't have younger better players than them. 34/35 is coming towards the end of ones career but its not uncommon for quality players to still be first choice for their club and country at that age.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
After all, all of them are over 30 right now and are understandably still the first names on our team sheets. Do you expect such a dramatic decline in 2-3 years? Those guys could be playing in the championship and still be starters for us, we don't have better. They have some way to fall before they're in danger of losing relevancy to the international team, they're nowhere near that.
I fully agree with trap on the DVD comment, I don't understand people who insist managers be in various stadia every saturday afternoon. Managers who do that seem to be there for PR reasons more than anything else.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
I am sorry to hear Traps words that seem to indicate Hartes international career is over, I think he has something to offer us. Also on Lee Carsley, for a man hes never called up he seems to talk about him press conferences an awful lot.
I think it's a name that's got stuck in his head after getting thrown a lot in early press conferences, he tends to throw it out automatically when vaguely answering questions on squad selection.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
Or maybe he can't think of the names of any other Irish players who didnt make the squad? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
I see you've added mind-reading as one of your abilities on foot.ieQuote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
I've never referenced the quals, just the finals.
I didn't name Given, because goalkeepers are a different breed. So no, he's not in the same bracket as the others.
We don't have younger, better players than them now. A week is a long time in football, never mind 16 months, which is the time we have till our first qualifier, or 3 years, to the finals themselves, which I was referring.Quote:
We just simply don't have younger better players than them. 34/35 is coming towards the end of ones career but its not uncommon for quality players to still be first choice for their club and country at that age.
In terms of the WCQ's yes, there is a good chance they will still be key squad players. My own suspicion is that if we qualify for the Euro's 1 of them will retire, Duff. All 3 might decide that's that they've made a major finals again and they'll ride out on a high. Or all 3 might decide that there is enough in the tank to have one final campaign and aim for Rio.
Conversely, if we fail to qualify for the Euro's, and that's just as likely unfortunately, all three might decide thats enough and call it quits. Also the chances are that if we don't qualify, a new mgmt team comes in, and there could be an overhaul of the squad.
I'd say Dunne probably will target the World Cup given he was instrumental in qualifying us in 2002 but didn't feature in the finals themselves. But, he has struggled with injury for a while now, and his poor start to the season, amongst other things, has to have been his lack of pre-season recuperating from the injury and for a while has played through the pain-barrier for us. And to be fair as quick as a players form can turn, a transfer can transform a player for the good too. There are players coming through - Duffy, O'Dea, Wilson, Clark - added to O'Shea and Ledger, that in time will lead to Dunne being a past legend.
I totally support that Dunne, Duff and Keane are mainstays of the team now, but I just don't believe that any of them will be first choice in the time period mentioned.
Robbie has struggled for game time recently, for a variety of reasons, and that was as big a reason for us not getting the 3 points in Zilina, and any repeat of that time period kicking his heels just wouldn't be acceptable - everyone is idolised to a point, but when a player loses the je ne sais quoi that has him the jersey in the first place, then sentimentality cannot be tolerated.
You're putting words into my mouth and creating an argument that has no place here - I've not stated anywhere that in danger of losing relevancy to the int team.Quote:
After all, all of them are over 30 right now and are understandably still the first names on our team sheets. Do you expect such a dramatic decline in 2-3 years? Those guys could be playing in the championship and still be starters for us, we don't have better. They have some way to fall before they're in danger of losing relevancy to the international team, they're nowhere near that.
As it stands we play a rigid 442. A change of manager, added to the bedding in of the future int players, could mean a 451 or 4231 would be even more suited to the players in the squad (McCaerthy, Clifford, Brady, McGeady, Long, Doyle, Sheridan etc) and in that regard, that would have a big effect on the current pensioners ;)
in summary Murfinator, I've no issue with the points you raise, they're as fanciful as mine are, I just am trying to play devils advocate, I don't believe it's a simple case of "they're still around - they will be key".
Fair enough, just raising my points since I see a lot of people here and elsewhere cut players prospects short based on age without any context. Keane/Dunne/Duff all have one thing in common in that they were all on the brink of being world class players at club level yet didn't quite make it falling out of favour at top clubs in Liverpool/Man City/Chelsea. They're still fantastic players but the stage where they really achieved this was internationally, all 3 will go down as being far more recognisable for their impact on Ireland than their respective clubs.
For that reason I think they'll all be eager to prolong their international career as long as possible, unlike most other players their entire career identity revolves around Ireland. I'm not so optimistic the young players coming through can replace, particularly after seeing some of their antics in the past week I definitely don't see some of those players having the same passion for Ireland regardless how they progress at club level.
Cracking free kick there from Harte, about 25 yards out right in the middle of the pitch. Harte steps up with his trusty left foot, curls it around the wall and just inside Steele's right hand post...2-0. I think its actually his first goal of the season.
just saw it on motd , great goal. got me thinking that a free kick specialist is something we are desperatley in need of as goals might be hard to come by for us in the euros. now back when harte was playing he infuriated me with his sluggish defending, but then so can ward. so i'm thinkin if your gonna have a crap left back, why not bring one whos likely to score from any freekick we get?
I'm not sure El Trappo would be too impressed with Harte's fitness levels.
It's not that he is unfit, he just likes to conserve his energy.