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I was going mad in the stands see Given being held back (not literally of course) by Stan but on hindsight I can understand it. Even if we had beaten Germany we still wouldn't have a chance of geting through. Losing would have been disastrous if we are to finish in third place.Quote:
Originally Posted by SUB of the day
So I'm (kind of) with Stan on this. Now there's a first :)
A positive has to be Stan's ability to find players to play for Ireland....Caleb Folan anyone?:p
Good:
Bar the Cyprus result we have conceded very few goals.
American Tour gave young players a great experience
Inclusion of Ireland, despite not having proper defensive midfield support for him
Bad:
Questionable tactics such as finnan on the left, O'Shea anywhere on the pitch
Selection of players based on likes and dislikes
Where are they now?? Alienation of Paddy Kenny and Morrison
Alan O'Brien
Douglas
Daryl Murphy
Kilbane at central midfield
Paul McShane
Media handling
Why should we not boo him? He is getting paid €450,000 a year to make an absolute joke of us. How else can we get our point across? That game last Saturday was torture and the only reason thats keeping me going to these games is that one day that clown will be gone.
Who is available?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie
Will they want the job?
How much will they want?
How much should we pay?
Let's assume what we really weant is someone who (a) is a 'top/world class' manager (b) is available and (c) wants to take the job
If there is someone who ticks the boxes (a), (b) and (c), then I would suggest they are likely to want a package worth more than €450k p.a. (a figure who some misguided souls on this forum thinks put Steve Staunton among the top 10 highest paid international managers in the world :confused:).
If we are going to pay that sort of money then surely there must be part of the payment that is dependant on success (performance related pay, a normal type of payment in business these days).
Lets assume for one minute that the person who ticks boxes (a), (b) and (c) appears, but the basis for payment is €350k a year and a €1m bonus for qualifying for the 2010 WC finals, a package worth €1.7m over two years, much more than Steve Staunton is on now and certainly an amount the FAI could afford to pay if we qualified, how many 'top/world class' managers would take on the job if one third of their package is dependant on the players at their disposal?
Not many, I would suggest.
If success at international management level is based on qualification for major finals, then surely their financial reward should be performance related.
I can't imagine any of the top 10 or 20 'top/world class' managers. whoever they may be, taking on such a job where their financial reward is based on the performance of 'average' players which is what we have at the moment.
Charlton was booed, McCarthy was booed, Kerr was booed and now Staunton is booed.
It is about time 'fans' got real?
[QUOTE=Superhoops;792220]Who is available?
Will they want the job?
How much will they want?
How much should we pay?
Let's assume what we really weant is someone who (a) is a 'top/world class' manager (b) is available and (c) wants to take the job
If there is someone who ticks the boxes (a), (b) and (c), then I would suggest they are likely to want a package worth more than €450k p.a. (a figure who some misguided souls on this forum thinks put Steve Staunton among the top 10 highest paid international managers in the world :confused:).
If we are going to pay that sort of money then surely there must be part of the payment that is dependant on success (performance related pay, a normal type of payment in business these days).
Lets assume for one minute that the person who ticks boxes (a), (b) and (c) appears, but the basis for payment is €350k a year and a €1m bonus for qualifying for the 2010 WC finals, a package worth €1.7m over two years, much more than Steve Staunton is on now and certainly an amount the FAI could afford to pay if we qualified, how many 'top/world class' managers would take on the job if one third of their package is dependant on the players at their disposal?
Not many, I would suggest.
If success at international management level is based on qualification for major finals, then surely their financial reward should be performance related.
I can't imagine any of the top 10 or 20 'top/world class' managers. whoever they may be, taking on such a job where their financial reward is based on the performance of 'average' players which is what we have at the moment.
Charlton was booed, McCarthy was booed, Kerr was booed and now Staunton is booed.
It is about time 'fans' got real?[/QUOTE
McCArthy or Charlton for that matter would'nt have been in the world top 100 managers when they were appointed. They both got us to championship finals. Your suggesting that no top manager would take the package you have outlined. How do you know? Delaney never interviewed anybody for the job. He had decided on Stan. Terry Venables stated he was interested in the then open vacancy. Top flight manager whether you like him or not. Leo Beenhaker might have been a real possibility. Again never approached. Two of the people who should have been approached for advice on appointing a new manager were Wenger and Liam Brady. Why not ask Mourinho for advice. Hiddink for advice. That is the way to go. Delaney is a "fan" picking our national manager. And If Stan goes then he will go and get the "world class" manager he promised and I guarantee it will be a big name but again not the right manager for Ireland. Ask the experts.
What the hell? What a bloody fantastic centre half this guys gonna be imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by danonion
I'd have taken the job if Delaney had offered.... no pressure till qualifiers for world cup... thats more or less what Stan is insinuating in every interview. Delaney is the root of the problem... we don't want this muppet picking the next manager. I think the protest should centre around him alone. I don't agree with booing the team or protesting in any way that would disillusion them any more than they are. Irish fans are the best in the world, proud of our country and how well we have done in the past. Lets keep it that way, but we don't want to suffer the $hite coming from merrion Square any longer.
€70 for a ticket? 10million profit from 1 game alone? 400 people living it up on free food and booze in Croker before the game?.... come on now...
I know I can't be the only one who doesn't see anything in McShane. He's short, has no pace and is strictly average at reading the game. We are on dire straights if he is going to be considered a decent centre back. His passion and work rate prevent me from cringing when he plays, but if he forges a long term career in the premier league I will be truly surprised
Put it this way, if I thought he was an average reader of the game I would not be a great fan of his. I think he's a fantastic reader of the game for his age, MUCH better than Dunne was at 21. He's a natural. Not only do I think he'll have a career in the premiership but he'll be a top 10 premiership centre half by his peak. I honestly believe that (Dunne already is imo). It's possible to measure everything about a player except the football brain. You think he has an average one, I think he has an excellent one. It'll be interesting to see how his career goes. :)
As far as McShane the right back goes, I think he's rubbish.
I generally agree with your player scouting, but I just have a feeling that general consensus being so good for McShane is related to how bad our centre backs are now (bar Dunne, objectively - he's excellent).Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
I genuinely thought McShane was excellent during this campaign when I saw the matches. But when I watched them again, and slowed the video down during the parts where Ireland were under pressure and conceded goals, I felt that McShane made some poor decisions that I didn't realize at first.
Bad (only)
Taking the job as manager.
Not quitting as manager.
Mate tells me is 500,000 a year????
Is that sterling??!!!!!:mad:
Sterling?
AFAIK it's 400,000 (euros) a year.
Firstly, finishing third or fourth doesnt make any difference to our seedings for the next campaign - we're gonna be third seeds no matter what now, would that be correct?Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim Pickings
Secondly, regardless of whether finishing in third mattered, we did still have an outside chance of qualifying if we won. The Germans to beat the Czechs and Slovakia and Cyprus to get a point off them isn't that far fetched.
I understood it to be in the region of €250k - €300k. He was cheap as chips as international 'managers' go, hence another reason why delaney is a big supporter of him.
Newstalks resident "genius" Ken Earley insists he in one of the top 10 paid International Managers in the world and the FAI wont sack him cos they cant afford to!?:confused:
Yeah and theres a guy down the chip shop swears hes Elvis an ceannaire but that doesn't make it true.
I can see this thread getting binned like your others....
I understood he was on €450,000 that what the majority of the press have said that is about €399,999 too much if you ask me.
He probably is one of the best paid, if you think about it, i know the czech coach Bruckner is only on 100,000 euros, Leouw the german coach is only on about 700,000euros..not many football associations can afford top dollar for coaches so id say he is in the top 10 earners..
Add the 250k that Robson is getting and there's a salary package that'd attract a lot of good coaches.
I'd prefer to see a cut in the salary but offering a very high qualification-related bonus, e.g., a million to qualify, 350k for going out in the play-offs, or 100k for every point gained over, say 18.
It's how performance is rewarded in industry so why not in sport?
There is logic to this from his point of view. A win would have been nice but was unlikely to see us qualify. A draw could be protrayed as a 'good' result whereas a defeat would have increased pressure on him. So he obviously didnt see this as a must win.Quote:
Originally Posted by SUB of the day
I was watching the game on Sky and Ronnie Whelan made an (unintentionally) interesting remark. He said he ahd been speaking to Stan (at a golf day of course) and had found him very relaxed. He claimed Stan had said that he wasn't concerned about this campaign his focus was all on 2010.
On the basis then that he's going to be here for another 2 years and that presumably another failed campaign would be the end of him can I suggest that the money the FAI save on Bobby's salary should be spent on getting Stan's replacement into the team. If Stan goes we can assume the FAI will revert to type and hire some former player (e.g. Kenny Cunningham, Kevin Kilbane). If they are going to do that can they make him Stan's assistant now. I don't think anyone sees Kevin McDonald as the next Ireland manager, do they?
Exactly. They touched on this on Newstalk saying that there was one Irish person who didn't see this as a must-win - Staunton. They should have added Delaney too, of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by cavan_fan
The spin is definitely being pushed that 3rd place in the group (fighting for places with Wales, Slovakia and Cyprus) is an improvement on 4th place last time (France, Switzerland, Israel as rivals). Staunton and Delaney's main concern is to meet this target.
Also the restructuring of the qualification system to allow us to be placed as higher seeds with a similar ranking will be presented as a great achievement by Stan.
I feel sorry for the older guys on the team, the likes of Given, Kilbane, Finnan, Carsley who probably won't be around in WC2010 finals, if we were to qualify. They are the ones who have had to listen to this campaign being written off from the start, to concentrate on the campaign after.
And what of the next campaign? If we get another shyte campaign with Staunton in charge, will he be given more time? I just don't see the next campaign getting better, and what will the FAI reaction be then to 4 yrs down the drain? Effectively the peak years of some very-good players are being wasted.
I'd been wondering about this. Was Staunton assured by Delaney that a draw, however poor, would be acceptable?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry The Saint
We need a visonary like Tony o'Neill and instead have John Delaney. O'Neill tried to get one of the then best managers in Europe Bob paisley to manage Ireland in 1985. We ended up with Charlton (which turned out well)because the decision was not O'Neills alone. But I know for a fact that Paisley was his choice for manager and he only wanted the best for Ireland. And the package being offered was something like you suggest Stuttgart.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Absolutely - why the hell not approach some high profile, tried and trusted Managers. Most will say "No" - but it only takes one to say yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
I think Paul Jewell is a credible option. He clearly dislikes the stress of club management.
No-one was booing the Irish team, it was Stan who the booing was for.Quote:
Originally Posted by percy
definitely agree on that score. Can drag the best out of limited players (i'm not saying thats what we have), and does come across well. Doesn't seem to have an attitude of taking any shyte either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Great point, puts stan '4 year plan' into perspective. Why the FOOCK should the older players bother their arses turning up when Stan writes off the chances of us qualifying prior to the campaign starting. This could be their last campaign and they have to listn/put up with Stans shiite. :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
I agree with your point but I'd say Given and Finnan will definitely still be around for the next campaign.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
Although I wouldn't blame them if they were thinking what the hells the point in playing anymore for a mickey mouse manager
rinky dink manager......
Position untenable.
We were saying that a year ago.
Yes this august message board was saying that very thing. If anyone wants to know when we began not qualifying for Euro 2008 it was when the fourth goal went in at the Cyprus away game .
Best response I've ever seen on foot.ie love it JByrne. Brilliant.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
Oh & boo-boys go home....
An idea I thought of, and something I know has been done in sporting circles, is how about drafting a letter and everyone printing off their own copy and signing it and sending it into the FAI office. You have these stupid online polls which no one pays any attention to, but at least if they were getting 10-20 letters a day consistently surely they'd get the idea as they have to open them and physically see it, whereas its easy to ignore petitions.
Any thoughts?
Where did this thread go? Because 54,000 who boo'ed and 16,000 who sateyd away can't be wrong!
I think this is a pretty good idea, and would carry more weight (literally) than booing,polling and marching to Merrion Square!:)Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Man
ps My brother works for the Postal service, so he will be very plaesed!;)