2023 FAI Cup

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Originally Posted by Jack B

I've had a lovely couple of days.

Some spectacle on the day. Kept catching myself looking around and not quite believing that there were that many people in attendance of a FAI Cup final. If only clubs were really able to build on this in the immediate term, but a special feeling all the same.

Can't speak highly enough of the job that Daly has done, it's not always the most convincing but he has an often extremely young team playing some mature football and I think that's what won out on the day. The likes of Redmond and Lennon are the players you want in that kind of environment.

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Yeah, it was kind of surreal to look around a packed Aviva and realise you were at a Cup Final. The two finals against Bohs have been very special occasions. After all the disappointments in finals, now we can’t stop winning them ;).

I think our defence is What makes the difference. Someone else mentioned the amount of blocks they get in. Since the return of Joe Redmond from injury we’ve been so solid at the back. Jon Daly deserves great credit for the job he’s done. I didn’t realise his family are still living in Scotland. Hope he doesn’t decide to go back over there.

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Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract

A serious few days that I’m only now starting to recover from now. From the nightclub with over 1k fans and players on Sunday night, to a jammed McDowells with fans and squad there with live music by none other than the Wolfe Tones it’s been unbelievable. :)

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I can't imagine anything more ruinous to a party atmosphere than the Wolf Tones turning up.

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Originally Posted by Straightstory

I can't imagine anything more ruinous to a party atmosphere than the Wolf Tones turning up.

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Alright Joe Duffy calm down.

Given that the FAI Cup has now become established as a bit of a thing (not just this year, but the 3 attendances since Covid have all been good), surely 2024 would be a good time to bring the League Cup back again?

Why have only 2 possible trophies available to any club to win (and only one final) when traditionally there used to be 3? What was the rationale for not restoring the League Cup after Covid anyway?

Will be interesting to see if they re-introduce the LC for 2024, it's about the most significant change I can see the FAI introducing ahead of the new season but won't be surprised either way.

If it were up to me I'd give the Presidents Cup teams a bye round 1 and have it kicking off the the Friday before the league opener as a kind of higher profile friendly as a curtain raiser. Half the teams being out before the league season starts would make it a lot easier to schedule.

In an ideal world you'd throw in the likes of CK, Klub Kildare, Monaghan, Mayo, etc to get them a taste but I'm sure there's probably reasons why that won't be able to work.

I'd love as well if it was a little bit different to every other cup competition in some way. Like straight to pens after the 90 or minimum 6 players under 23 to emphasize it as a youth development tournament.

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

Given that the FAI Cup has now become established as a bit of a thing (not just this year, but the 3 attendances since Covid have all been good), surely 2024 would be a good time to bring the League Cup back again?

Why have only 2 possible trophies available to any club to win (and only one final) when traditionally there used to be 3? What was the rationale for not restoring the League Cup after Covid anyway?

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The FAI Cup is established in the second half of the season. The League Cup, if it is to return, needs to fit in in the first half of the season.
My tuppence worth is that the President's Cup should expand to 6 teams. The top 3 in the league, FAI Cup winner, League Cup winner and defending President's Cup winner. Places can be allocated to the next best placed teams in the league if cup winners are already qualified through the league.
The League Cup can then be contested by the remaining 14 clubs. Clubs who have qualified for Europe will only have to play 2 or 3 rounds at most in the President's Cup. Clubs in the League Cup would only have to play 3 or 4 rounds at most.
The President's Cup would probably require one game a month in March, April and May. The League Cup would probably require one game a month in March, April, May and June.
The early rounds of the League Cup didn't often attract crowd. With a tiered cup format, the league winner and FAI Cup winner can receive a bye to the President's Cup semi-finals. 4 other teams are contesting two quarter-finals to join them.
After 12 teams starting in the League Cup First Round, it'll be straight into quarter-final then with lower half Premier Division clubs and top half First Division clubs vying for silverware.

Needs more pyramid.

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Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

Needs more pyramid.

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Didn't Lyons get rid of their pyramid teabags!?

I'd like to see the League Cup return but the problem is the schedule is already pretty full. I think there are 4 midweek round of fixtures as is.

If you exclude the 4 European teams it could just be a flat 16 draw, so just 4 matches for the eventual finalists.

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Originally Posted by legendz

The FAI Cup is established in the second half of the season. The League Cup, if it is to return, needs to fit in in the first half of the season.
My tuppence worth is that the President's Cup should expand to 6 teams. The top 3 in the league, FAI Cup winner, League Cup winner and defending President's Cup winner. Places can be allocated to the next best placed teams in the league if cup winners are already qualified through the league.
The League Cup can then be contested by the remaining 14 clubs. Clubs who have qualified for Europe will only have to play 2 or 3 rounds at most in the President's Cup. Clubs in the League Cup would only have to play 3 or 4 rounds at most.
The President's Cup would probably require one game a month in March, April and May. The League Cup would probably require one game a month in March, April, May and June.
The early rounds of the League Cup didn't often attract crowd. With a tiered cup format, the league winner and FAI Cup winner can receive a bye to the President's Cup semi-finals. 4 other teams are contesting two quarter-finals to join them.
After 12 teams starting in the League Cup First Round, it'll be straight into quarter-final then with lower half Premier Division clubs and top half First Division clubs vying for silverware.

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I don't see the point in expanding the President's Cup to just a few more teams. Why do we need an exclusice trophy, with a fairly artifical grounds for qualification? It makes sense currently as the League winner vs cup winner. And I could understand if we had a Winter league and the 4 European teams needed something to get them match-ready. But I see no benefit in it just being an artifical few teams. Why?

I like the League Cup because it is open to EVERY team in the league. And in addiiton it has also traditionally given a few non-league clubs with potential the chance to experience big games, good crowds, and get a taste of what the LOI could be if they ever wanted to join. Plus it's an established trophy and echoes what a lot of leagues elsewhere have as well, so has some inherent value. You could see an all-Dublin League Cup final selling out Tallaght for example. Why would we not want another showpiece event like that?

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Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

Needs more pyramid.

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Said the Egyptian FA....

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Originally Posted by JC_GUFC

If you exclude the 4 European teams it could just be a flat 16 draw, so just 4 matches for the eventual finalists.

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If you are excluding the 4 European qualified teams, they should all enter the President's Cup instead?

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

I don't see the point in expanding the President's Cup to just a few more teams. ...

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"Why" - An elite competition with 3 rounds or less for those qualified for Europe.
If the 16 clubs not qualified for Europe were contesting the League Cup, the League Cup winner at least should also be included in the following year's President's Cup.
With the President's Cup established and the League Cup not contested since 2019, there is an opportunity to bring back the League Cup and have the European qualified teams in the President's Cup. If it is a non runner, it is a non runner.
I was in Mounthawk Park the day Kerry League knocked out Waterford United of the League Cup. If the League Cup does return and the Third Tier is to be established eventually, the League Cup should be for League of Ireland clubs and first team clubs in the Third Tier.
If European qualified clubs are supportive of a return of the League Cup, maybe they should have a bye to the later rounds. The League Cup with European teams would need to be completed before the European qualifiers begin.

The Presidents Cup is the Irish Super Cup. The Super Cup is played all over Europe as the league winners against the cup winners as the curtain raiser to the season. Adding teams to a glorified friendly competition would be utter nonsense, and ultimately completely pointless.

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Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

The Presidents Cup is the Irish Super Cup. The Super Cup is played all over Europe as the league winners against the cup winners as the curtain raiser to the season. Adding teams to a glorified friendly competition would be utter nonsense, and ultimately completely pointless.

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Supercopa de España?

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Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

Needs more pyramid.

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

Said the Egyptian FA....

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So any non-league club standing at the doorway of the big leagues would be invited to just ring the bell for admittance?

Y'know, Toot 'n' come-in?

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Originally Posted by legendz

"Why" - An elite competition with 3 rounds or less for those qualified for Europe.
If the 16 clubs not qualified for Europe were contesting the League Cup, the League Cup winner at least should also be included in the following year's President's Cup.
With the President's Cup established and the League Cup not contested since 2019, there is an opportunity to bring back the League Cup and have the European qualified teams in the President's Cup. If it is a non runner, it is a non runner.
I was in Mounthawk Park the day Kerry League knocked out Waterford United of the League Cup. If the League Cup does return and the Third Tier is to be established eventually, the League Cup should be for League of Ireland clubs and first team clubs in the Third Tier.
If European qualified clubs are supportive of a return of the League Cup, maybe they should have a bye to the later rounds. The League Cup with European teams would need to be completed before the European qualifiers begin.

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The 4 European clubs have at least 2 rescheduled league games caused by their European participation. If they progress a round or two , it starts to get a bit tricky and disruptive. So why would you want to add even more games on to their schedule? And just for a makey-uppey 'exclusive' trophy that they will completely deprioritise in favour of Europe and the league.

Why do our European clubs need even more games?

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Originally Posted by Eminence Grise

So any non-league club standing at the doorway of the big leagues would be invited to just ring the bell for admittance?

Y'know, Toot 'n' come-in?

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I think you're in denial/The Nile...

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

The 4 European clubs have at least 2 rescheduled league games caused by their European participation. If they progress a round or two , it starts to get a bit tricky and disruptive. So why would you want to add even more games on to their schedule? And just for a makey-uppey 'exclusive' trophy that they will completely deprioritise in favour of Europe and the league.

Why do our European clubs need even more games?

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Are you saying the European clubs should not be in the League Cup?

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Originally Posted by legendz

Are you saying the European clubs should not be in the League Cup?

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I think he's saying that losing the league cup wasn't actually a loss and is actually more of a hindrance to some clubs.

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Originally Posted by legendz

Are you saying the European clubs should not be in the League Cup?

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I've very clearly said in a previous post that the League Cup should be for ALL clubs in the league (plus a few non-league ones).

If you're asking because it addss more games, then at least it does so for a propoer trophy. And it's just restoring things to the way they were before Covid.

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Originally Posted by Another Bohemia

I think he's saying that losing the league cup wasn't actually a loss and is actually more of a hindrance to some clubs.

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I'm saying the complete opposite. Bring it back!

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

I've very clearly said in a previous post that the League Cup should be for ALL clubs in the league (plus a few non-league ones).

If you're asking because it addss more games, then at least it does so for a propoer trophy. And it's just restoring things to the way they were before Covid.

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If the league season was extended by two weeks and started on the first weekend of February, 8 First Division clubs could start in the League Cup round 1 on the final weekend of January. Round 2 of the League Cup could be on the new February Bank Holiday Monday, unless it's a Friday 1st of February where the Bank Holiday is on a Friday.
The League Cup can then have quarter-finals in March, semi-finals in April and final in May.

If it returns then yeah, I agree. It could work as a first half of the season competition. That said, I've no real appetite for it myself. If Bohs won it I'd enjoy it but not so sure it would feel like we're back winning silverware. Maybe I'd feel different if it actually happened.

Final in Tallaght in early summer, I could see how it could potentially work but has to be made feel important somehow.

https://www.thesun.ie/sport/11761457...-damage-aviva/

€32k for winning the Cup, basically the same amount that our absentee landlord was over-paid by

Cup prize money was realigned to allocate more to round by round, while the finalists now get a 1/3 share of profits from the final so overall that's a good thing I think, albeit obviously higher prize money would be better

Would be interesting to see the final figure on gate receipts. Being conservative it’s probably over 200k for each club for this years final which is more than winning the league gets you (not including UEFA prize money of course)

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Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract

Would be interesting to see the final figure on gate receipts. Being conservative it’s probably over 200k for each club for this years final which is more than winning the league gets you (not including UEFA prize money of course)

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Not after today's story: https://twitter.com/OCowzer/status/1..._FQfoIewQ&s=19

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Originally Posted by outspoken

Not after today's story: https://twitter.com/OCowzer/status/1..._FQfoIewQ&s=19

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Yes I’m aware €46k has been taken off the gate receipt but the article says the gate receipt is still being split in 3 (a third for each club and a third for the FAI).

48k tickets were sold. Obviously without knowing the breakdown of kids to adults tickets, I’ve gone with an average of €15 per ticket multiplied by 48k = €720k, minus €46k = €674k, divided by 3 = €224,666 per club as an estimate

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Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract

Yes I’m aware €46k has been taken off the gate receipt but the article says the gate receipt is still being split in 3 (a third for each club and a third for the FAI).

48k tickets were sold. Obviously without knowing the breakdown of kids to adults tickets, I’ve gone with an average of €15 per ticket multiplied by 48k = €720k, minus €46k = €674k, divided by 3 = €224,666 per club as an estimate

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I think it's a third of the profit, not the gate receipts. I read somewhere before that it takes about 30k tickets to cover using the Aviva so you'd possibly by looking at the value of 6k tickets for each club. Still a sizable amount.

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Originally Posted by patsdad

I think it's a third of the profit, not the gate receipts. I read somewhere before that it takes about 30k tickets to cover using the Aviva so you'd possibly by looking at the value of 6k tickets for each club. Still a sizable amount.

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Just basing it off the article stating the gate receipt was split in 3, rather than the profits split in 3

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And that figure was taken out of the gate receipts, which were split three ways between the FAI and two clubs, effectively reducing all threes takings by €15,333.

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Originally Posted by patsdad

I read somewhere before that it takes about 30k tickets to cover using the Aviva so you'd possibly by looking at the value of 6k tickets for each club. Still a sizable amount.

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That sounds suspiciously like the persistent tale that Croke Park needed 30,000+ attendance/tickets to cover its costs. Which the GAA then came out publicly and said wasn't true. If it's not true for a much bigger stadium like that, I can't see how it would be for Lansdowne? It would surely be a silly situation if a stadium could only pay its way when it was two-thirds full.

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Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract

Yes I’m aware €46k has been taken off the gate receipt but the article says the gate receipt is still being split in 3 (a third for each club and a third for the FAI).

48k tickets were sold. Obviously without knowing the breakdown of kids to adults tickets, I’ve gone with an average of €15 per ticket multiplied by 48k = €720k, minus €46k = €674k, divided by 3 = €224,666 per club as an estimate

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I think you'd have to go with higher than a €15 average ticket, to account for the thousands of Premium seats as well.

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

I think you'd have to go with higher than a €15 average ticket, to account for the thousands of Premium seats as well.

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That's true, good point. As I said I’ve no breakdown to base it off so decided to be conservative with the figure but it’s safe to say the gate was somewhere in the region of €225–350k per club if the reports of the gate receipt being split in 3 are accurate (I’ve no reason to believe they’re not)

It is definitely by profit not by gate receipts.

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Originally Posted by Mr A

It is definitely by profit not by gate receipts.

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If that’s the case then it’s probably in the region of €75k-115k per club

If both clubs came away with 30-40k each, that would be the height of it, and would be decent money to be getting.

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Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract

Yes I’m aware €46k has been taken off the gate receipt but the article says the gate receipt is still being split in 3 (a third for each club and a third for the FAI).

48k tickets were sold. Obviously without knowing the breakdown of kids to adults tickets, I’ve gone with an average of €15 per ticket multiplied by 48k = €720k, minus €46k = €674k, divided by 3 = €224,666 per club as an estimate

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43,881 was the official attendance, where is the 48k tickets sold coming from as well over 4k hardly bought a ticket and didn't go?

Didn't realise distribution of money changed, used to be 50k for the winners regardless of the crowd.

Would imagine a lot of other expenses to pay, 100's employed on the day not to mention standard costs, so wouldn't think anywhere close to 200k per club is right, if they got 100k would be doing very well, but Pats have to be getting more for winning it obviously.

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Originally Posted by oriel

43,881 was the official attendance, where is the 48k tickets sold coming from as well over 4k hardly bought a ticket and didn't go?

Didn't realise distribution of money changed, used to be 50k for the winners regardless of the crowd.

Would imagine a lot of other expenses to pay, 100's employed on the day not to mention standard costs, so wouldn't think anywhere close to 200k per club is right, if they got 100k would be doing very well, but Pats have to be getting more for winning it obviously.

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There were 4k seats covered by seat kills and the game was announced sold out, which is where the 48k tickets sold figure comes from. It was widely reported in the media that 48k were sold

for example: https://www.the42.ie/fai-cup-final-a...20882-Nov2023/

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Originally Posted by oriel

43,881 was the official attendance, where is the 48k tickets sold coming from as well over 4k hardly bought a ticket and didn't go?

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The FAI and both clubs claimed it had completely sold out on the morning of the game. Was mentioned a few times on the broadcast too, so 48k+ was being quoted until the attendance was announced during the game.

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Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract

There were 4k seats covered by seat kills and the game was announced sold out, which is where the 48k tickets sold figure comes from. It was widely reported in the media that 48k were sold

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Isn't capacity 52k though?

I presumed the seat kills brought capacity down to 48k, which was then sold out

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Isn't capacity 52k though?

I presumed the seat kills brought capacity down to 48k, which was then sold out

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Yes 48k tickets sold plus 4k seat kills equals 52k. As in, the capacity was reduced to 48k and was sold out, and announced as such