You said that he was absolute gash when he played.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
You said that he was absolute gash when he played.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
What do you mean? Surely going amateur and/or playing First Division / A Championship simply means that while there is no need to sign new professional player contracts,the obligation of arrears on wages to date plus settlements on early termination of current contracts still stand.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
That is the 'gun to the head' I referred to. No license = no payment to playersQuote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
A very risky strategy!Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
A key issue is if Bohs are currently in breach of licencing requirements by non-payment of players (all players paid up to Nov 30?). If they are in breach then the ILC should not consider the application (i.e. "if you grant me the license, we will then meet the pre-conditions") - but then we all know the rules are applied selectively.
Osarusan strikes again.Quote:
Originally Posted by horton
Maybe he doesn't, I'm just asking.Quote:
Originally Posted by horton
Osarusan/horton - no, i dont know what cash is available. Im presuming that we would have access to funds to pay arrears. Some of the funds that would be returned to the lenders could be redirected back to the club for that purpose and without conditions attached. That would be one simple way i can think of.
Ezekial - if we changed our status to amateur then the players are no longer required so we can make them redundant or lay them off with zero or minimal compensation (max 4 weeks wages). So the obligation to settle wouldnt stand in that circumstance. Obligation to pay arrears would, i believe (though not with legal certainty), still stand. Sorry if that wasnt clear in my original post. To make it clear, that is an option that has been touted on our mb not something the club wants to do necessarily. The club wants to stay in the League and is negotiating in good faith to compensate the players as well as they can within the mandate they have. Risky strategy? Probably/possibly. But it is up to the FAI to determine that. They dont seem to have any problems walking clubs in trouble through the licensing process so who knows whether they are okay with this. Dont mean to come across as arrogant in any way but i dont think they want Bohs to capitulate and, as such, are likely very well aware of the situation and strategy.
On another note, reinsate Osarusan. :)
but isnt that a very different thing from saying that he shouldnt be paid?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lep
Talk about a lep in logic! ;)
If somebody else mentions licensing I'll scream.
The licensing process is as meaningless as, well, as a contract with Bohs.
You have your wires crossed again stu :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
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Originally Posted by The Lep
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Originally Posted by SkStu
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Originally Posted by The Lep
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Originally Posted by SkStu
how??Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lep
You said that you didnt say he was gash :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
where?
Tullamore :)
Just me or is the thread taking a Twin Peaks-esque surreal twist?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lep
The players will have to sign off on it. If they do then that particular licencing aspect and the FAi can't really complain about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezeikial
Bohs will blackmail the players. Accept this deal and sign here before the deadline or we won't get a premier licence and we'll make ye redundant, getting very little.
It's a game of chicken.
It's Cork all over again. And how many clubs before it. I'm getting tired of LOI brinkmanship.Quote:
Originally Posted by micls
It sadly is in the tapestry of the league every year there is some club on the brink,not paying taxes,not paying players,dual contracts its sad as it just makes a mockery out of us all for following the league and it gives the hacks back page doom and gloom story's that they relish.The sooner the better this bohs story goes away and we can get onto discussing football matters and not company management for the insane.Quote:
It's Cork all over again. And how many clubs before it. I'm getting tired of LOI brinkmanship.
This morning I'd coffee with a friend who works for an ice hockey club (marketing) and he asked me about the LOI. Since we met, 2 years ago, he's become interested in Irish football (he went over for the international match) and it's fed into his love of all things Irish. He watches MNS almost weekly and he follows, well, I won't mention who he follows as it's a bit shameful. Anyway, he asked why each year since he started following (2 years) the LOI some club has gone or been on the brink. He told me how they've borrowed the NHL model for clubs in the KHL and how they've been very strict on finance and administration. Yet we see again a scramble for genuine fans of the club to rescue it, as happened in Drogheda and Dundalk before, and yet it will all boil down to somebody not being paid and another stain on the league and domestic football. I cannot solely blame the FAI, as club administrators are weak at the best of times, but there has to be a change!
Super
With all these contacts you have and meetings you have about the league, I'm starting to think you're the sole reason its in the state it is Spud.
Maybe take a step back and see if it improves?
spot on micls but there is another angle to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by micls
The players are playing a game too. A lot of them have deals done with clubs to join and play with for next season. They are holding on and holding on waiting for the Bohs pay-off and will officially sign for their other clubs as soon as they get it. Which is their right however morally questionable. As we also have the right to play chicken however morally questionable.
i agree. And regret that Bohs are involved this time round. The sad thing is it appears there is still more lunacy to come due to other clubs. We're just the latest.Quote:
Originally Posted by D.24saint
i hope you told them about the clubs that folded in Scotland, England and numerous other clubs in leagues around Europe. And the dozens of other clubs that are in major financial trouble across Europe. People need to stop apologising for the League. It has its problems for sure but so does every other league in Europe. I also hope you pointed out the massive differences between organised sport in North America and football in Ireland and Europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudulika
SkStu, you'd know as well as anyone how it works in other countries, and here it's the same. Clubs come and go, reform and there's nothing about it. I think we all look at the LOI too closely and get too caught up in it all, but when you look at it like a business it just is how the game works - companies come and go, some stay longer, some have to be overhauled, some let go and others just muddle their way through. In sports, especially in Ireland and the UK, we see club mergers as an anathema, yet it is normal business practice and clubs do it all the time in Europe. He's working in the KHL which runs like the NHL, WHL, OHL and so on, so it's more based on a business plan and survival of the fittest. I remember when I was living in Canada and a news report on TSN about how the Argo's were going to go bust and where I lived the Senators removed their farm team because they had a better offer from another city. You know, at the end of it I simply told him, without the fans, clubs are nothing - it's something people here won't get as it's a different culture.
Dodge, in 2000 I gave up trying to figure out the LOI when I handed my own club a golden ticket only for the then incumbent to say "we've a different plan", which was to run the club into the ground. And in 2004 I was coaxed into looking at Shels, only to see the horror show unfolding and politely declined. But for some reason, which maybe you feel, the league is a drug and no matter what it's something to fight for and enjoy. Otherwise we'd have all given up long ago. So no matter if I stay or go, clubs and "fans" will still do their utmost to make it fun.
Whats your point!
See!? in 1999 Pats won the league. And its been downhill every since. Jinx!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudulika
Seriosuly though, if you're that well connected, and that much involved with various clubs, you have to be culpable to some degree
While wumming sounds like fun, it's more the point that it simply remains to say that business is cyclical, since football is business it falls into that character, so clubs rise anf fall, come and go and without the FAI and grassroots combining the LOI will be boom bust (minor). While Pats problems will always remain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Shelley and Grey to hold press conference on Friday.
Originally scheduled for last Monday, deferred to Wednesday and now Friday. Not sure of point of press conference, especially as they sought anonimity in the first place. Not sure how two whining footballers about to move abroad outlining their tale of woe is going to help their case.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
If they'd held it in the first place then maybe matters would be more straightforward, but that's probably a legal matter. Taking off the blinkers Marinobohs, I would hate to see how you'd react to going 2 months unpaid. Having felt it, it's not nice.
They're touting the fact that other players in the same situation will be there 'for support' That in itself is interesting enoughQuote:
Originally Posted by marinobohs
Let's not forget it's not just this one non-payment, they also had a pay-cut forced on them to presumably prevent exactly this exact situationQuote:
Originally Posted by Spudulika
Another report said they would be accompanied by Mc Guinness and their legal rep, Dodge (although it will be interesting to see who attends). No problem with them having a press conference or the fact they are entitled to seek club honours contracts but Gray has been paid for almost a full season while injured - generous sick pay terms by normal business standards. Both are seeking payment for post season period - a time when very few LOI players are ever paid and in normal employment statutory redundancy rules/entitlements would apply (players are siting normal business rules).Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Dont see the purpose of the press conference or its purpose. Anyone likely to care already has their mind made up and anyone else is unlikely to bother either way (cant see an ICTU march in support of them)
Jicked, do you really see a groundswell of support out there for two football players whining about a pay cut ?
None of this is to abdicate the responsibility of Bohs in this mess and the responsibility on clubs/players to honour contracts (unless your name is Fenn of course:rolleyes:) or the hope that it can be resolved amicably with all players i just fail to see how the proposed press conference is going to help the situation. Who knows ? I might be pleasently surprised on Friday (but not holding breath)
Pay cut? Do you work for Brian Lenihan?Quote:
Originally Posted by marinobohs
alright, now that marinobohs and myself have charmed the knickers off you all over the last 44 pages, who fancies pledging their support to one of the Leagues oldest and finest clubs? I hope some of you will attend what promises to be a most excellent and entertaining night for a really good price and for a worthy cause. I also offer the posters of foot.ie the following - i will put the first FIVE posters that email me confirmation of purchase into a draw for ONE additional ticket that i will pay for out of my own pocket. (i will check if my email address is visible on my profile, if not i will repost here if thats okay).
http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...iaPoster01.png
Brush Shiels? Seriously?
**Shudder**
It's been postponed til Friday because of a death in the Cretaro family and to allow other players attend.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
The show will suddenly end shortly before the first intermission when Bohs run out of comedians, and anyone looking for a refund will be accused of greed.
sorry, Arcade Fire were booked up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
http://communities.sportsnet.ca/serv...4266/badum.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by John83
Seriously, whats that got to do with anything?Quote:
Originally Posted by marinobohs
Dodge, was in response to Jicked raising point (about previous pay cut) and that I dont see any merit in the press conference idea by the players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
I still don't really see what you're getting at to be honest, but to be fair, yeah I do imagine public opinion would back the players on this one. Not just rival LoI fans, but if you were to objectively show the facts to a bloke on a bus he probably would as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinobohs
Jicked, do you really see a groundswell of support out there for two football players whining about a pay cut ?
Signed a big deal with Bohs (a few years ago in Shelly's case potentially turning down deals at other clubs, Gray we know turned down signing with Rovers where for arguments sake he could still be today being paid quite well).
The money they were promised in that deal didn't materialise, the club weren't able to pay the money they promised them.
Players take a pay-cut, but still rally to perform well in all domestic competitions, almost coming back from the dead in the League despite this situation being on the horizon the whole time.
They are then told that despite taking a pay cut, the deals for next year won't be honoured, leaving them unemployed.
They seek a compensatory pay-off, as is standard, and are told they will only be offered x weeks (I can't remember off the top of my head). As these negotiations are ongoing the club, who want to convince them they have money to pay them off, stop paying them there weekly wage.
This goes on for a month, players threaten the only action they can (not being able to strike or work-to-rule) and the club promises them money will be available in early-mid January. We're now approaching the tail end of January, the players haven't been paid in two months, and the club seems no closer to being able to pay the money they had promised for January.
I'm not being smart or trying to twist the knife, but objectively speaking that's a pretty damning state of affairs. I know how much a situation like this hurts having been through it with Rovers not so long ago, but suggesting the players are morally wrong is just ridiculous and getting Bohs nowhere in terms of getting out of this hole. To be honest, I always thought Bohs would come through this (which is what I wanted, a struggling Bohs team in the PD, being forced to live within their means in the future) but the way the club and fans have acted over the last few weeks leaves me highly doubtful they will now.
You see this is what bohs fans forget in their moral outrage against the two players. Two years ago shelley was offered a contract by MON but turned it down in favour of Bohs contract offer. 12 months ago Grey was offered a contract by Rovers but Bohs offered him a bit more so he took that. In both cases Rovers offered them what was sustainable but Bohs gave them more than they could afford. Now all of a sudden Bohd cant pay them the terms they outbid other clubs on yet it's all the players fault. Cop on Bohs fans vent your anger at those in charge of your club not the players you fooled into signing for you on false pretences.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jicked