I'd say a big part of the respect for refs issue in rugby has got to do with the fact that refs have microphones, so every protestation by a player can be heard on tv.Quote:
Originally Posted by peadar1987
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I'd say a big part of the respect for refs issue in rugby has got to do with the fact that refs have microphones, so every protestation by a player can be heard on tv.Quote:
Originally Posted by peadar1987
Its not hard to belief theres just a stronger culture of respect amongst Rugby players than soccer players. Its apparent in all facets, fans are less abrasive with less booing of national anthems (some exceptions such as Quade Cooper), virtually zero riots among crowds or missiles thrown on pitches. Players respect each other more, generally the losing team will form a line saluting the victorious team and its commonplace in the six nations for teams to have a meal with one another post-game too. Very little bad blood from a game is carried off the pitch. With refs theres very little questioning their authority allowed on the pitch, theres the odd Luke Fitzgerald moment that alludes to soccer practice but generally players don't crowd out a ref, don't demand things with the ref and manager typically won't criticise a ref after a game. That last part has happened more than usual in this Wold Cup with all of Samoa, South Africa and Wales having complaints but that is relatively unusual for the sport. 3 out of 52 games supposedly impacted by refereeing would be a remarkably low number in a soccer world cup. I remember we had two on the same "day" last time with Germany/England and Argentina/Mexico.
You do realise there is a class thing with this as well?
How on earth does sticking your fingers in somebody's eye socket "allude to soccer practice"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
Rugby is far more civilised in terms of support but the passion is also alot less intense from a supporter in my opinion. Especially in this country. Theres a good core of soccer fans, probably alot of people in here would be just that. The type who follows come rain or shine. Unfortunately in ireland we have alot of fans who flit between things that attract attention and perceived success. I know so many folks who were soccer through and through (albeit they don't even know the LOI exists) but when our star fades they turn straight to rugby and almost instantaneously they are experts in all things rugby.
Its a cycle really, if we qualify for the euros you will see the same mugs (who barely watched us in the qualifying campaign) lapping up the occasion and playing the armchair pundit to perfection once again.
I love to see the rugby lads do well, but as one previous poster said there is a class thing aswell. Rugby in Ireland is more accessible to the average person but its still followed by the elite more so. It also has noticeable ties with business, a bit like golf in the states. I've seen countless people who know nothing about the game swat up on it so they can brown nose their boss (who also has no idea about the game really but likes to sound knowledgable). Its attracted alot of folk who are not particularly passionate about sport, but its now popular enough to make them believe that they are in the social loop that comes with it. Thats not to say there isn't a hardcore following in place aswell, just like us in the football. But in Ireland as the old cliche goes, we have alot of bandwagon jumpers who just want to be entertained. Punters. Who will move onto the next fad when the thrill of being associated with a winner fades.
The funny thing that struck me about rugby was the amount of women I heard having an opinion on it. Now im not being sexist, women can love their sport too. But ye know the type of women i'm talking about. The women who would usually watch paint dry before they watch sport. Alot of them watch it because they fancy one of the players or else its something they want to get involved in when all the gang are down the pub talking about it over their bacardi's and coke.
Its fashionable right now whereas the football is not. In ireland anyways.
you've obviously never been to Thomond park for a heneken cup or leinster match. The passion, support and colour puts any football occasion in this country to shameQuote:
Originally Posted by Strongbow10
Leinster does none of that - there's a chant of "Leinster, Leinster" every now and again, and people wave branded flags they just bought in the shop. Fair dues to them for doing it and all, but the notion it puts any football occasion to shame is nonsense. The FAI Cup Final last year, for example - way more passion, support and colour. Ditto Rovers' European ties (ok, the Spurs game wasn't in this country, but I still think it's relevant) or even the singing section in Lansdowne Road for competitive games.
i'm talking in an international sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
Out of interest, what were crowds like for Leinster matches say maybe 7-8 years ago? Not hectic i'd imagine.
Club rugby in ireland is on its arse. My own hometown side play top flight AIL rugby and they dont get 100 fans.
I hate to sound cynical, I just know of so many "passionate on the surface" rugby fans who see their following as a way of suburban life and status. A relative of mine recently got married and she was an avid Man Utd fan. The last 2 years its been thrown to the wayside in favour of going to all the Leinster games with her colleagues and hubby (who has absolutely zero interest in sport) and they are all proud members of "the leinster faithful" as they call it. And there are hundreds if not thousands just like this.
Its a mere passing interest. Its a good representation of us irish as sports fans. Looking for the next fix.
7 or 8 years ago Leinster would more or less fill Donnybrook. Now they more or less fill the RDS, which is maybe 5 times the size?
it was weak before but has much improved. was at the 1/4 final of hein cup this year and it was the loudest the new stadium has been to date by far. you can only compare like for like and that 1/4 final was a sell out, a sea of blue and noise deafening. if the FAI cup final (only saw on tv) was better than that then id be delighted.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I hate this thread yet i find myself strangely drawn to it everytime it rears its ugly head near the top of page 1,
"Rugby now more popular than football and gaa".... what a statement!! my brother who was in a band wearing skinny
jeans throughout the nineties and a good proportion of the naughties knew less about sport then my cat 'fluffy'
but now he is (and his likeminded mates) the world authority on rugby!! and that says it all for me really,
Rugby is a sport designed for basically people who are sh$t at sport and/or who have no genuine interest in sport,
the game revolves around how fast you can run into someone while holding a large leather egg...................
gob****es are drawn to it for purely social status reasons and something to scoff about with their boss in the canteen at work.
It's all part of the whole bandwagon get on the property ladder, get on the paul o'connell love bus, sheep attitude that draws the
unwanted and they'll be climbing on board our bandwagon come qualification if estonia do the right thing.
Rugby is played in the elitist schools and it's now high fashion to support the meatheads and why we are having this debate on
a football website sickens me.
Rant Over. Get rid of this thread :)
I don't think that's the case anywhere but Ireland really and only then because of the recent surge in popularity. They take their rugby seriously in the strongholds in France, England and Wales (and even in Ulster). The unprecedented success of Munster and Leinster has attracted the Johnny come latelys.Quote:
Rugby is a sport designed for basically people who are sh$t at sport and/or who have no genuine interest in sport,
I would say thats cricket :DQuote:
Originally Posted by eighties mullet
Trying to get this thread back towrds sensible debate! I think rugby has a better product to offer the punter right now in Ireland. It has 2 teams that can challenge for the Champs League equivalent and the national team only competes against other good teams.
The quick selling out of the Estonia game proved nearly all our beliefs that once some interesting context is added, the football support is there. Call it bandwagoning or whatever, but it's there.
You also have to look at these things in the context of what marketers call the product life cycle. Releasing a sport's latent popularity is the easy part. Keeping it there and adapting it over time is harder.Professional rugby is still in its relative infancy and has room to further develop. However, the sports needs international rugby to pay the bills and may well find - as Stephen Jones of The Sunday Times believes - that the product gets over exploited after a while. A bit like cricket. I'd say that Ireland is relatively unique in its ability to control the club v country conflict that arises by necessity in other regions.
And thats it in a nutshell. The general irish "fan" wishes to be entertained. A small minority are passionate out of love for their team/game, but the majority just want a quick feel good factor that comes with a winning side, and the night out the comes with it. That is Ireland.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Punters is the perfect word.
What drives me mad is the gobs*tes from Galway and the like swanning around in their Leinster/Munster jerseys. I know some folks who have been seen in both in the last 3-4 years.
Now people may counter argue that applies to the galway man wearing a Liverpool or Man Utd jersey. But Rugby is without doubt the fashion right now in Ireland.
Take a look a Kieran Cunningham's piece in the Star today. He tears the RWC to shreds. He says only in Ireland will a 3rd rate provincial prop be feted as a legend.
People bang on about how great an achievement it is to have such success on a European Level, but lets see how successful irish club rugby would be with the likes of Garryowen, Buccaneers and St.Marys representing the country in the "Heino Cup".
And there is plenty of them... But now that Connacht have made it into the HCup those jerseys are slowly being replaced.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strongbow10
I expect the Munster jerseys to be back out in force come April when Connacht fail to win a game in the pool stages
Anyone see the Sky Sports News reaction to Man United's drubbing by the Sovereign Wealth Fund? They interviewed a bunch of United fans, in separate groups, to get their reactions. All the fans, except for one, were Irish (including NI)!
I've said all along that Man United are more popular in Ireland than any rugby province. This proved nothing of course, but I couldn't help note it.
More popular perhaps. Better supported I doubt. On the basis of what I saw today Rochdale are better supported. I doubt they could've cleared OT that fast for a fire drill.
Its such a shame when you consider the amounts Irish people spend supporting uk clubs, if that money was instead spent supporting Irish clubs, you can just imagine how stronger our own league would be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I feel like a King and you are tasting(vetting) the food for me Stutts.
I came across this article last week and never bothered to read it, but given the fact that you have posted it here, it must be well vetted and worth reading so I shall endeavour to do so now.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugb...t-2921118.html
Neil Francis more or less confirming my view that there are many who can only see the worst side of football but who can only see the best side of rugby. Good to see an informed rugby insider confirming what anyone with an open mind can already see, though I wouldn't want to be a tattooed defendant in a trial with Franno on jury service!
i'd say francis takes half an hour to enjoy his own scent after every time he uses the toilet, what an ignorant w***er
Can't help but feel that there's a subtext of "we have lost the game to the underclass" running through that article, which would be more or less in character with Francis.
I had the extreme displeasure of his company at one of the Guinness Area 22 events last year, and left thinking that he was the kind of fan that would turn you off watching rugby if he was your introduction to the game.
I wouldn't pay too much attention to Neil Francis, and certainly wouldn't use him as an excuse to knock the game or supporters of rugby; most genuine rugby fans don't really pay attention to him, and see him as simply a stirrer & shock-journo, when he's not bemoaning the professional era that is. He has various chips on his shoulder & this tends to come out in his articles. Think of Dunphy only without the charm.
Considering his amateur era is that of the 99 call (google it), I don't really buy this suggestion rugby has lost its way.
its really gone to the dogs alright
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnPVfbG3rVM
Francis has always had an attitude problem. When he played for Blackrock he was a whinger and arrogant. It seems from Tets' comments that nothing has changed. Listening and accepting his judgments is the same as accepting Dunphy's opinions as being valid. In terms of this debate, I love it when we do well at all sports. Being Aussie based, it has been great that we have beaten them in rugby and International Rules. They are the worst losers in the world and will use any excuse except admit that the better team won. When they win their arrogance is sickening.
ah that 99 call was alright though cos there wasn't any underhanded stuff.
sort of off topic, but next time a rugby fan points out that all footballers care about is their haircuts, remind him that the Ospreys have had to ban their players from getting fake tans: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...307038369.html
This, such a deplorable pundit/journalist.Quote:
Originally Posted by amaccann
Interestingly Leinster got 48,000 in the Aviva for an unimportant league match which is a glorified warmup for the bigger H-cup games next week. Both sides even resting some players.
Meanwhile the crunch Armenian fixture had 3,000 less.
How many more away fans did Munster bring than Armenia?
Leinster v Munster is the ultimate bandwagon game anyway.
Don't know but they're all Irish fans so I don't think theres any significance what the Leinster/Munster split was. The point is more Irish people turned out to watch a club rugby game than a do or die euro 2012 soccer qualifier.
Heineken cup games coming up against foreign teams so will be interesting to see if those kind of numbers hold. Particularly to compare with Estonia at home.
I think this notion will be firmly put to bed in 2012!
Anyone see the RTE 9 O'clock news and the rugby supporter being interviewed at the airport stating that just as well it wasn't a soccer match otherwise there might have been trouble. Arrogant ****.
That's the way these guys are. Arrogant ****s that get a nosebleed if they stray further west than the DART line.
Mickey Mouse organisation yesterday. It was well known that the temperataures were going to be well below zero.
The 6N is sport's equivalent of Groundhog Day. Same teams, same players, same outcomes over and over again. This year's tournament has so little consequence it's unreal. It's too soon after a WC - where we lost to Wales again - to carry any great significance.
A win in Paris would be great but the simple minded Irish sporting public will tolerate poor performances as long as we beat a woeful England team that only won yesterday because Italy were more woeful. An AIL team would have put that match to bed. I can place kick better than the Italian guy yesterday.
An increasing number of people (OK, about 4!) among my peer group are beginning to agree with me.
The Rabo league is a procession and is about as predictable as the SPL.
Ok I didn't see the piece because I don't have access to the Irish news but I have to admit that in rugby you wouldn't see the scenes that you see at Bohs and Rovers matches or the trouble that is routinely seen up and down the country at GAA matches. I presume it was a toff stating that fact in a really condescending manner, but at the same time I would have to agree that trouble is less likely to occur at rugby matches.
Stutts as regards the 6N being repetitive, maybe it is but every match is essentially an intense local derby, which is what makes it great. Same outcomes? In the past 4 years, there have been four different winners of the competition, I'm failing to see your logic there.
Ahh give over now - don't start dragging out the tired clichés because of one flippant voxpop. West Brits blah blah blah - reverse snobbery how are you. The man a toff? Funny he looked like a typical Irishman to me - but then I guess people see what they want to see :)
Man was just mouthing off out of spur-of-the-moment frustration and rightly so. Rugby or soccer, last night's trip to Paris wouldn't have been cheap for any of those people and 70K+ were told to go home 5 minutes before the match was meant to start. While sitting in a stadium at the fag-end of Paris - St. Denis is in the middle of nowhere. I'd be more interested to have seen the voxpops considering un-broadcastable 'cos there would have been a lot of people far angrier than our apparent West-Brit-toff. Not to mention the thousands of angry French people
As for the 6 Nations as a repetitive tournament - every 12 months you get passionate derby games with knockout matchups. Great stuff altogether, there's a lot to be said for that format.
Great stuff altogether? Italy v England was dross. Scotland v England was dross. The standard was awful, intense local derby or not. Even Ireland v Wales was painful to watch sometimes, especially Ireland's constant ineffective kicking from hand tactic.
I've never in my life seen Irish or French football fans in any trouble. I never said anything about Rovers or Bohs, nor would I attempt to bury my head in the sand on that front. Had that been the FRA v IRL play-off in November 2009 that was called off at the last minute I'd be pretty confident there'd have been no trouble.
As for the format / status of the competition? The H-Cup has become more important and the RWC is far more important. They might be local derbies but as far as I can see most of the fans are there for the booze up and not much else. It's a (mainly) lads' trip away with a sporting contest attched. Nothing wrong with that in itself but just don't tell me that the context of the 6N is supposed to get me excited this season, because it doesn't.
To this (all) sports enthusiast the 6N just rings hollow so soon after the RWC.
Football has many ills, I fully get that. I just wish the rugby heads would have the decency to accept that their sport is also riddled wth rule anomalies, refereeing inconsistencies, and as the sport's professional era becomes more advanced, bad sportsmanship, bad off pitch behaviour and all of that. I don't see much evidence that they do.
It was on the nine o'clock news on RTE, you should be able to watch it here: http://www.rte.ie/player/#!v=1135585 same goes for anyone watching outside Ireland, AFAIK the news programs are not geo-lockedQuote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
The report starts around the ten minute mark, the guy says "If it was a soccer match, it would have been a lot worse reaction, if you like"
who the fcuk asked him to compare it to soccer? There hasn't been problems at an Ireland soccer game since the England match in Lansdowne in 1995, and that was clearly not the home fans at fault. Meanwhile, there's been near riot conditions at GAA games as recently as two weeks ago
England getting praise yesterday on BBC for winning two consecutive away games for the first time in years. Conveniently ignoring those games were against the worst two teams in the tournament, and I'd put money on them not winning another game for the rest of the six nations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
considering what did happen in the play off game, the response of the fans should have been praised. Both sides actually, some French fans apologised to me when I got back to Paris.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I've been told that the IRFU are prepared to write off this, and possibly the next two six nations, in order to bring through younger players to have them ready for the world cup in 2013. Hence persisting with Sexton when something is clearly wrong with him at international level. France did the same after Ireland won the grand slam. The following season was all about beating Ireland, and becoming the de facto northern hemisphere champions, winning the grand slam was incidental.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Read an article late last year comparing the way soccer and rugby are reported, and wondering why rugby players seem to get a much easier ride. The conclusion was that, while soccer fans wish the rugby players were subject to the same scrutiny, maybe the ideal situation was soccer players (human beings, lets not forget, and thus as fallible as any other) should be subject to the same "hands off" approach that their opposite numbers in rugby get.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
My own opinion for a long time was that there was a level of jealousy from the journalists, who (in most cases) went to college, were educated, and in their own opinions earned their pay. In their eyes, why should someone earn far more than them for doing less? As for why rugby players got an easier ride, traditionally they came from similar backgrounds, in many cases went to the same schools (I know this has changed in the last few years) and were on better terms. In every soccer club, there's at least one players who was stitched up by the press, so why would any other player want to talk to them? The only rugby player I can remember having to suffer anything like that was O'Gara around the time of the world cup in France, when the allegations about his gambling and extra marital affairs came out and disappeared soon after.
With the introduction of professionalism, and the extra scrutiny that comes with it, it will be interesting to see how the relationship between players and media develops over the next few years.
And in the previous eight years, there was only three winners, with France winning it four times, England three times, and Wales just onceQuote:
Originally Posted by French Toasht
Realistically, there's only ever going to be four winners of the tournament, Italy or Scotland will never win it. It usually comes down to who has the better home fixtures, we're never going to win it with away games against England and France.
Scotland and Italy are also rans, although Italy are improving
Ireland and Wales are more or less the same. We can beat them, they can beat us.
France rarely lose at home, but can struggle on the road against Ireland, Wales and England
England go from the sublime to the ridiculous. Currently, they're pretty much ridiculous.
Don't get me wrong, I do love the tournament, but when it becomes a soap box for people to proclaim superiority over any other sport, it detracts greatly from it.
That always looked like a sign of weakness, if you truly are greater, there's no need to state it.
I would suggest that there were a far deeper anger and frustration amongst the Irish fans the night of the 2010 play off than there was last Saturday night. yet there was no trouble. In fact, I recall massive queues outside the stadium in a small area/bridge leading up to the train station, where many Irish and French were mixed together. If ever there was a major receipe for trouble that it. Yet there was none.
As a follower of all sports I never like to see this putting one down over the other attitude, each sport has plenty of its ills. The 6Ns is far from perfect but I always find it very entertaining and while you will get many a poor game, you will also get fantastic contests.