NI boss targets Republic's Gibson

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30/08/2007, 5:25 PM
livehead1

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

"Annexations" [sic] are what eg the Nazis did to Austria, or the Sudetenland.

And indeed the GFA does not need to be mentioned by [sic] FIFA. Which is why it hasn't been.

And if it is the GFA which "allows occupants of the North Irish Passports" [sic], the GFA hardly selects international football teams. (Though it is actually the Government in Dublin which allocates Irish Passports to people from NI, something they were doing long before the GFA was ever even conceived)

And as for you final paragraph, the one thing I have no difficulty getting my head round is the fact that some "people born in their territory [sic] are choosing to play for the Republic". It is the rest of the drivel which I cannot understand...

P.S. You have been smoking, haven't you? ;)

well i hope most people can understand it! stop being a tosser..in case you cant tell, i dont pay too much attention to:D grammer:D on here!
30/08/2007, 5:28 PM
Not Brazil

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

hmm that sort of comment makes me wonder immensely at what you hope for those in the north.

Certainly not for sporting division, along sectarian lines, as is the implied desire by some over the Darron Gibson thing.

I hope for a pluralist Northern Ireland - a Northern Ireland at peace with itself, where everyone prospers.

Against a background of the, age old, constitutional question now being agreed, I believe that to be a realistic and desireable objective.
30/08/2007, 5:30 PM
Not Brazil

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I thought we were on about Tony Kane? ah well...

We were sidetracked into discussing Celtic players playing for Northern Ireland.
30/08/2007, 5:36 PM
EalingGreen

Quote:

Originally Posted by co. down green

I was speaking to someone last night who knows the Kane situation pretty well.

It seems that Tony was told last week by Don Givens that he did not meet the standard required for the Ireland u21 side at present, thus his exclusion from the 18 man squad for the u21 qualifiers in Cork next week.

According to Nigel Worthington he has been named in the squad to "give him the opportunity to decide for himself but he seems pretty keen at the minute," said Worthington. (All Worthington statements should come with a health warning, after his lies about Darron Gibson).

If he does not meet the standard then its the kids decision, but you would have thought he might have fought to secure a position in the future, or perhaps he will just take the easy option.

Time will tell.

So what you're saying is that is that after apparently having been told by Givens that he's not good enough for the ROI U-21's at present, he may be considering reverting to play for NI.

If nothing else, that kinda tears the arse out of the notion that all NI Nationalists hold to the Darron Gibson "it's the Republic or nothing" stance.

Unless, of course, Kane's just keeping his hand in with NI whilst he persuades Givens to reconsider, in which case, he'd better be quick, seeing as it was his 20th Birthday yesterday.

Either way, it's lucky for Kane (and the rest of us) that there are really "two teams in Ireland..."
30/08/2007, 6:15 PM
geysir

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Irrespective of the posturing/hot air/DG's availability in August etc, do you accept Wells's contention that the FAI has still to get back to FIFA on this issue, or do you consider he is making it up (the only other possibility)?

Sounds like Wells is making it up if only because imo it has all the hallmarks of populist bleating. The FAI have kept a low public profile as is right and proper and is more in keeping with Darren's intrests

It is remotely possible that someone in FIFA wanted to know for the umteenth time that Irish nationality does not entitle you to play for any UK or other team, that Darron is a dual national therefore the annex criteria doesn't apply.
30/08/2007, 6:47 PM
co. down green

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

So what you're saying is that is that after apparently having been told by Givens that he's not good enough for the ROI U-21's at present, he may be considering reverting to play for NI.

If nothing else, that kinda tears the arse out of the notion that all NI Nationalists hold to the Darron Gibson "it's the Republic or nothing" stance.

Unless, of course, Kane's just keeping his hand in with NI whilst he persuades Givens to reconsider, in which case, he'd better be quick, seeing as it was his 20th Birthday yesterday.

Either way, it's lucky for Kane (and the rest of us) that there are really "two teams in Ireland..."

Players will always look after their own interests first, nothing wrong or unusual in that idea..

If nothing else, that kinda tears the arse out of the notion that all NI Nationalists hold to the Darron Gibson "it's the Republic or nothing" stance.

Not sure what you are on about, players from differing backgrounds in the North have always made their own career choices, be it Linfield supporter Alan Kernaghan representing Ireland or former hurler Chris Baird playing for the North.

The important word is choice

If only some could accept this simple concept.

FIFA do.
30/08/2007, 7:00 PM
SkStu

Quote:

Originally Posted by co. down green

Players will always look after their own interests first, nothing wrong or unusual in that idea..

If nothing else, that kinda tears the arse out of the notion that all NI Nationalists hold to the Darron Gibson "it's the Republic or nothing" stance.

Not sure what you are on about, players from differing backgrounds in the North have always made their own career choices, be it Linfield supporter Alan Kernaghan representing Ireland or former hurler Chris Baird playing for the North.

The important word is choice

If only some could accept this simple concept.

FIFA do.

best and most reasonable and sensible post ive read in this painful thread.
30/08/2007, 7:03 PM
Paddy Garcia

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Either way, it's lucky for Kane (and the rest of us) that there are really "two teams in Ireland..."

Fair enough, have to agree with you there. In fact more than 2 : ....

A team - Ireland
B team - Ireland Reserves
C team - The North
30/08/2007, 7:05 PM
Not Brazil

Quote:

Originally Posted by co. down green

Not sure what you are on about, players from differing backgrounds in the North have always made their own career choices, be it Linfield supporter Alan Kernaghan representing Ireland or former hurler Chris Baird playing for the North.

When did Alan Kernaghan play for "Ireland", and who are "The North" that Chris Baird plays for?

Alan Kernaghan played for the Republic Of Ireland.

Chris Baird plays for Northern Ireland.
30/08/2007, 7:17 PM
Maroon 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Brazil

When did Alan Kernaghan play for "Ireland", and who are "The North" that Chris Baird plays for?

Alan Kernaghan played for the Republic Of Ireland.

Chris Baird plays for Northern Ireland.

Here we go again.:rolleyes:

NB people use the terms north or south often as shorthand. Just a turn of phrase.

Plus generally people call the football team in the "south" Ireland and will undoubtably continue to do so. Not out of badness but just because that's what people have called them for donkey's years.

Now call yourselves whatever you want but please don't start lecturing us on what we call ourselves.

And even if someone describes you as "the north" it's surely preferable to being called beggars?
30/08/2007, 7:18 PM
geysir

You're in the Ireland forum now, leave your bags somewhere else.
30/08/2007, 11:08 PM
lopez

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Your first paragraph is pure cobblers on two counts. First, do you honestly imagine that the likes of Danny Blanchflower, Peter McParland, Jimmy McIlroy, Pat Jennings, George Best, Norman Whiteside etc would not have been "good enough" to play for ROI?

So much drivel...so little time. What I was saying was that there was never a player who from the north was BOTH good enough AND wanted to play for Ireland (ROI to you) until Gibson. However, both Jennings and Best actively insisted they would have played for 'Ireland' (IFA/FAI joint team) as did Derek Dougan...can give quotes for the latter two if wanted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Second, there were no NI-born senior internationals representing the ROI from the late 40's until Gibson, because the FAI adhered to the Gentlemens' Agreement brokered by FIFA in 1950 that the FAI would not pick IFA players (and v.v.). When Brian Kerr became ROI manager, the FAI ceased to "behave like Gentlemen". Since then, Gibson was the only one who was good enough, was prepared to switch and who was not already tied in with NI.

B*llocks. There were O6C born players in the youth teams. Not Kerr's, McCarthy's or Staunton's fault they were not good enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Re. your 2nd paragraph, I only know of two players, one of whom (Channel Islander Woods) would have been denied any chance of an International footballing career with anyone, had NI not given him the option. And two is not "two more than" the NI-born players you've been able to pick, it's one more. Is the mathematics too difficult for you, or do you now accept that perhaps Gibson might not be eligible for you?

No! That's two more when both your players were first capped, than who were born in the O6C playing for Ireland since the late 1940s. It probably explains why I got an O Level in my 4th year for maths and you got the Tufty Club Degree for reading about the same level.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Your third paragraph is similarly cobblers. The four British Associations are given a clear exemption (separate status) from the Regs governing all other Associations regarding certain issues, including player eligibility. It's there in black and white.

It looks like we got a similar exemption regarding Bruce Junior (and Kernaghan and McAteer). Hows about trying to live with it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Whereas, there is nowhere any explicit exemption from any of the Regs for ROI players, or the FAI. On the contrary, the FAI are relying on an interpretation of the existing Regs on player eligibility which apply to all other Associations, backed up by FIFA's October Letter. (And the IFA is challenging that interpretation and letter)

Good luck!

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

As for your fourth paragraph: yet more cobblers. The IFA does not fly the Union Flag over Windsor at internationals.

They flew it within the lifeltime of Gibson, which is what I said if you bothered to read the post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

The IFA does not allow such scarves (or anything remotely similar) to be sold at NI internationals.

These too were sold within the lifetime of Gibson

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

No NI player has been booed for his religion/politics/club for years.

How many years to be precise?

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

The IFA is in no way responsible for an anonymous death threat phoned, without a recognised codeword, to a newspaper.

I apologise for that. It was a disgruntled Taig with a 20p coin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Instead, they publicly deplored it.

I'd be surprised if they said it was what they wanted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

And your ludicrous and offensive allegation that the NI team is "de facto Unionist" would come as a great surprise to a number of its players who come from a clearly Nationalist background, not least our newest captain, Chris Baird, a former Rasharkin GAA player (plus his family members who were in the crowd).

It wouldn't come as a surprise to the family of Neil Lennon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Of course, I can't say exactly who/how many these number, since no-one is interested enough to keep a record. But I daresay we could get an idea by the number who choose only to carry Irish Passports, following the IFA recently lobbying FIFA successfully for their players to have the right to do so in preference to British ones.

Why bring it up, if no one is interested in the numbers? Don't remember asking for them myself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

And as for your last paragraph, it started off very promisingly, then reverted to cobblers from the second sentence.
P.S. It has just occurred to me that Irish readers may not be familiar with the term "cobblers", since it is Cockney rhyming slang (cobblers awls = balls). My use of the term must come from my having lived in England all this time...;)

Going a bit 'off topic here, EG?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Brazil

Originally Posted by shanekerins
'As opposed to the vile anti semetic and and Nazi celebrations that went on the last time ROI played Israel in Dublin.

Shame on you.'

Not only are we beggers - we're Nazis!Ahem - being a new member, you'll not be familiar with the events that day being discussed on - err - here!

Whatdaf*ck has that got to do with Gibson?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Brazil

The National flag of the United Kingdom Of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, the Union Flag, does not fly in any official capacity at Northern Ireland games held at Windsor Park.

Do you know when this practice stopped?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Brazil

Interestingly, the flying of the Union Flag at Windsor Park, by Linfield Football Club, does not seem to have deterred the increasingly numerous amount of players from a nationalist background playing (at all age levels) for that particular club.

And there was me thiniking it had more to do with the club itself distancing itself from the sectarian employment pracitces it used up until the late eighties?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Brazil

We were sidetracked into discussing Celtic players playing for Northern Ireland.

Unless you want to be banned, we use the code word Luton here for that Scottish club on this site.

Quote:

Originally Posted by geysir

Sounds like Wells is making it up if only because imo it has all the hallmarks of populist bleating. The FAI have kept a low public profile as is right and proper and is more in keeping with Darren's intrests

It is remotely possible that someone in FIFA wanted to know for the umteenth time that Irish nationality does not entitle you to play for any UK or other team, that Darron is a dual national therefore the annex criteria doesn't apply.

Yeah the legal department are thinking, 'how many times have we got to tell these w*nkers'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

...If nothing else, that kinda tears the arse out of the notion that all NI Nationalists hold to the Darron Gibson "it's the Republic or nothing" stance..."

I always thought it was a political decision. Does that now mean than Kane is no longer a bigot?
31/08/2007, 2:33 AM
danonion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Brazil

When did Alan Kernaghan play for "Ireland", and who are "The North" that Chris Baird plays for?

Alan Kernaghan played for the Republic Of Ireland.

Chris Baird plays for Northern Ireland.

Stupid post, nothing else to comment.
31/08/2007, 6:42 AM
fhtb

Quote:

Originally Posted by lopez

It wouldn't come as a surprise to the family of Neil Lennon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lopez

And there was me thiniking it had more to do with the club itself distancing itself from the sectarian employment pracitces it used up until the late eighties?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lopez

Going a bit 'off topic here, EG?

Interesting that you pull others for going off topic while continuing to introduce cases of sporadic or historic Northern sectarianism. I guess Gibson wouldn't have been troubled by the anti-semitic events seeing as he's not Jewish :rolleyes:

btw regarding your LFC point, does that not tell you that prospective RC Linfield pool of players had no issue with playing under the UK flag?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lopez

'how many times have we got to tell these w*nkers'.

You're right, that's probably exactly the way FIFA think...
31/08/2007, 6:50 AM
RogerMilla

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Brazil

When did Alan Kernaghan play for "Ireland", and who are "The North" that Chris Baird plays for?

Alan Kernaghan played for the Republic Of Ireland.

Chris Baird plays for Northern Ireland.

Ireland is the name of our state under our constitution and also under all the European treaties we have signed. What Uefa choose to call us is their business. Robbie Keane is the captain of the Irish team and he plays for Ireland , end of.
31/08/2007, 7:10 AM
RogerMilla

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

So what you're saying is that is that after apparently having been told by Givens that he's not good enough for the ROI U-21's at present, he may be considering reverting to play for NI.

If nothing else, that kinda tears the arse out of the notion that all NI Nationalists hold to the Darron Gibson "it's the Republic or nothing" stance.

Unless, of course, Kane's just keeping his hand in with NI whilst he persuades Givens to reconsider, in which case, he'd better be quick, seeing as it was his 20th Birthday yesterday.

Either way, it's lucky for Kane (and the rest of us) that there are really "two teams in Ireland..."

I have to say the guy is being very expediant about this and it's a poor show but i presume it's the same choice any dual nationality fella has , look at kanoute who declared for mali to play in the african nations cup.

I have to say one more thing , it's a pity that football and politics are so entangled in this eligibility thing but a nationalist ( or indeed anyone) from Northern Ireland must always be entitled to play for the Irish team or for the Republic if thats what you lads choose to call it. A United Ireland will most likely never come about and let's face it what with further european integration it could become almost irrelevant anyway but the aspiration to it is important to lots of people north and south and east and west of the border.
31/08/2007, 7:19 AM
fhtb

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerMilla

the aspiration to it is important to lots of people north and south and east and west of the border.

That probably goes to the heart of the political side of this issue. Political aspirations should not be confused with political realities.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerMilla

Ireland is the name of our state under our constitution and also under all the European treaties we have signed. What Uefa choose to call us is their business. Robbie Keane is the captain of the Irish team and he plays for Ireland , end of.

What Uefa choose to call a representative side is binding I would have thought. Robbie Keane is the captain of an Irish team and he plays of the Republic of Ireland. It's my belief that the political aspirations of the 26 counties do not feature heavily in UEFA/FIFA thought process.

The only team called 'Ireland' to have existed was headquartered in Belfast up until the 1950s I think. That changed when either FIFA/UEFA told them to do so. I think something similar may have happened to the Republic.
31/08/2007, 7:35 AM
gspain

Quote:

Originally Posted by geysir

Sounds like Wells is making it up if only because imo it has all the hallmarks of populist bleating. The FAI have kept a low public profile as is right and proper and is more in keeping with Darren's intrests

It is remotely possible that someone in FIFA wanted to know for the umteenth time that Irish nationality does not entitle you to play for any UK or other team, that Darron is a dual national therefore the annex criteria doesn't apply.

If DG is a dual national then the annex does apply. If he is an Irish national only then the annex does not apply.

Dermot Ahern intervened with FIFA to ensure an Irish passport is allowed for those who wish to play for NI but did not want to obtain a British passport. Dundalk's 2nd most famous supporter (after Maxi) may have caused us some problems here.
31/08/2007, 9:14 AM
EalingGreen

Quote:

Originally Posted by co. down green

Players will always look after their own interests first, nothing wrong or unusual in that idea..

If nothing else, that kinda tears the arse out of the notion that all NI Nationalists hold to the Darron Gibson "it's the Republic or nothing" stance.

Not sure what you are on about, players from differing backgrounds in the North have always made their own career choices, be it Linfield supporter Alan Kernaghan representing Ireland or former hurler Chris Baird playing for the North.

The important word is choice

If only some could accept this simple concept.

FIFA do.

Actually, unless a player can demonstrate that he is eligible to represent more than one Association, it is most decidedly NOT a matter of choice which country you represent at international level. Otherwise, a whole lot of international players would have chosen different countries from that which they did actually represent, for a whole host of reasons.

Now it may turn out that DG is eligible to represent the ROI as well as NI, in which case his choice is obvious. But if FIFA determine that he may not represent ROI, then his "choice" will be NI - take it or leave it.

In which case he will be the "reverse" of Alan Kernaghan, who had no choice in which team he represented - he always wanted to play for NI, but didn't comply with the IFA's requirements at the time. However, for all that he was a Linfield supporter, from a Unionist background etc, Kernaghan was not so dogmatic as to say "It's NI or nothing" and was happy to play for ROI.

Which means he is either a "turncoat", or someone who didn't allow himself to be confined by narrow political prejudices. Personally I'm sure it was the latter, for which I admire him.
31/08/2007, 9:19 AM
geysir

Quote:

Originally Posted by gspain

If DG is a dual national then the annex does apply. If he is an Irish national only then the annex does not apply.

Irish citizenship in itself does not qualify for other countries. So the UK passport scenario does not apply. Darron does not qualify for NI because of his Irish citizenship, he qualifies for NI because of his place of birth. The fact that NI has dual nationals inside the federations territory does not mean that an Irish citizen can play for NI.
Annex
"ELIGIBILITY TO PLAY FOR ASSOCIATION TEAMS FOR PLAYERS WHOSE
NATIONALITY ENTITLES THEM TO REPRESENT MORE THAN ONE ASSOCIATION"

Therefore the article 15.3 applies, Darron is a dual national.
"If a Player has more than one nationality, or if a Player acquires a new nationality, or if the Player is eligible to play for several Association teams due to his nationality, the following exceptions apply:

It's simple really :)

The understanding comes better after examining how the statutes are applied by FIFA.

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