Kevin Doyle

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Originally Posted by an_ceannaire

69-er your porb right. Bit like the Ibiza uncovered programmes......been there and 90% of the English lads over there were nothing like that and neither were the women (for shame!)
But Dunnes welcome has been cut short by the majority of City fans 69-er, alls I am saying is why are we so cut up about it and taking it as a personal affront to our country!!! I couldnt care less what team he plays for so long as he is doing the business for Ireland, and we have not had a centre half of his calibre in green since the Charlton days.. So the English dont rate him...so what.....he sint as godo a club player as he is an international. Not anymore. So what!

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I agree to a point but if you look at the Man City forums or comments section on the Manchester Evening News and other local papers a lot of the fans are gutted that he's going so I wouldn't say the majority of the City fans are happy about it, most think he should be kept as cover at least especially with an African Nations Cup this January. Most look on last season as the excpetion rather then the rule and remember his 4 POTY seasons before that.

Funilly enough, I was in Ibiza the summer they filmed that and couldn't agree more!

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Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

I agree to a point but if you look at the Man City forums or comments section on the Manchester Evening News and other local papers a lot of the fans are gutted that he's going so I wouldn't say the majority of the City fans are happy about it, most think he should be kept as cover at least especially with an African Nations Cup this January. Most look on last season as the excpetion rather then the rule and remember his 4 POTY seasons before that.

Funilly enough, I was in Ibiza the summer they filmed that and couldn't agree more!

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went to Menumission, paid the price of a fockin flight to get it, and it was like Tamango's on a wednesday night in there....!!!

On the Richie Point, he is too good to be kept as cover, but not good enough for a team challenging for the premiership. Fair Enough?

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Originally Posted by an_ceannaire

Scram is that the same City fans who were on SSN and Your on Sky Sports all last week saying they badly needed a partner for Toure cos Dunne wasnt good enough anymore :confused: and the same Spurs fans who if you go to ANY spurs website want Robbie dropped and Crouch Defoe to be the Spurs front two?

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You are VERY selective given that both were fan's Player of the Year at least on one occasison and Dunne repeatedly!!

I can't really answer your question though because I don't know the fans that SS selected to be on their Sky Show, did you catch their names?

Funny enough, if you go on to this website, you see Irish fans who wanted Robbie dropped many times...so they represent the majority opinion ??

eh, ps. ANDY JOHNSON :-)

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Originally Posted by an_ceannaire

Cascarino was on the radio yesterday saying Doyle was poor lately and saying he is not sure he is a premiership striker, said he was writing a piece in the paper today on him also

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Well if Cascarino said it, then it must be true...

He's a complete dunce of a pundit

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Originally Posted by an_ceannaire

Honests Opinions lads, is Doyler as good as any of the following
Defoe, Yakubu, Agbonlahor, Saha, K. Jones, Ashton, A. Johnson, Bendtner ?
I dont think so. I would think Doyle is about the level of Darren Bent, Emile Heskey or Kevin Davies. And if you went to the premiership fans or managers no matter what nationality, and offered them any of the above mentioned, I dont think Kev would be the top name on any of the lists. Do you?

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Not as good as Defoe. Not as clinical as Yakubu. Better than Agbonlahor. Not better than a fit Saha, same level as Jones, Ashton can't judge cause I've never seen him really, Johnson...depends on what you want from a striker.

Kevin Davies is very good, the player Doyle is most like but is more mobile. Bent is more dangerous than Doyle.


Heskey is a poor striker really.

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Originally Posted by an_ceannaire

Honests Opinions lads, is Doyler as good as any of the following
Defoe, Yakubu, Agbonlahor, Saha, K. Jones, Ashton, A. Johnson, Bendtner ?
I dont think so. I would think Doyle is about the level of Darren Bent, Emile Heskey or Kevin Davies. And if you went to the premiership fans or managers no matter what nationality, and offered them any of the above mentioned, I dont think Kev would be the top name on any of the lists. Do you?

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Think that you need to assess Doyle in relation to these players in terms of his experience, role in the team and current development before agreeing that you are in fact wrong and Doyle is indeed a quality player and potentially better than all of the players you have quoted:

Experience - Doyle has only had 4 years of proper, professional footballing tuition and fitness coaching which will improve further with Wolves state of the art training facilities. No offence to the league of Ireland, however he is a late starter in terms of his development, whereas players such as Defoe, who is a similar age, has 10 years of top class coaching, nutrition and training behind him. As for Heskey, Davies, Johnson, Saha and Yakubu (there's no way he is 26) we are not comparing players at like for like stages of their career, who are (or should be) in their prime.

Role in the team - Doyles control, hold up play and intelligent runs down the channels have been the very reason that he has been a contender for man of the match in many of our recent games, despite the fact that he is often recognised as an out and out striker due to his proven goalscoring record. Admittedly this goal-scoring record may have been blighted by injuries, playing out of position and lack of stamina across a season - the first of which can't be helped, second has probably helped develop his all-round game and third will improve year by year. He is a team-playing all-round striker, who it could be argued is a lot more multi talented than the one-dimensional players (in either goals or battering ran build-up play) you have cited.

Current Development - Coming on leaps and bounds from the skinny striker who dented the premiership scoring charts 3 years ago. With more international experience and the confidence it breeds this can only increase. Intelligent players keep learning and generally last longer (Sheringham, Quinn, McAllister, Giggs etc.) and he has added new strings to his bow annually. Could the same be said for the players you have mentioned?

Appreciate that everyone has their opinions - including your holy premiership fans and managers - however I would personally judge my opinions on a player from what I have seen for club and country rather than be influenced by the herd mentality of a bunch of football-illiterate sun-readers (who swear by every word) and weak, insecure premiership managers too scared to take a punt (not that it is) on a developing lad from the lower divisions in preference for a more exotic, fan-appeasing foriegn signing.

Excellent post Wolf. I believe Doyle will eventually be acknowledged as better than most if not all of the other strikers mentioned. He certainly has the potential and his all round play seems to be improving all the time.

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Originally Posted by Manc Irish Wolf

Think that you need to assess Doyle in relation to these players in terms of his experience, role in the team and current development before agreeing that you are in fact wrong and Doyle is indeed a quality player and potentially better than all of the players you have quoted:

Experience - Doyle has only had 4 years of proper, professional footballing tuition and fitness coaching which will improve further with Wolves state of the art training facilities. No offence to the league of Ireland, however he is a late starter in terms of his development, whereas players such as Defoe, who is a similar age, has 10 years of top class coaching, nutrition and training behind him. As for Heskey, Davies, Johnson, Saha and Yakubu (there's no way he is 26) we are not comparing players at like for like stages of their career, who are (or should be) in their prime.

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appreciate the regular postings MIW but, while i know it wasnt your intention, i think you've done the league a bit of a disservice in that part of your post. If it wasnt for Cork City the chances are that Doyle would be one of those "where are they now" players. The coaching, training and diet/nutrition are all a major part of being a professional League of Ireland player now and for the last number of years.

While i dont doubt that Wolves have a great training facility, to say Doyle has only 4 years proper training is unfair - the year at Pats and the remarkable scoring during the 2-3 years at Cork have stood the lad in great stead as evidenced by his remarkably swift and smooth transition to life in the Championship and then Premiership.

For what its worth, out of all the players mentioned above i would only rate Defoe as the better striker. I think he stands shoulder to shoulder with the rest in terms of his value to his team.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

appreciate the regular postings MIW but, while i know it wasnt your intention, i think you've done the league a bit of a disservice in that part of your post. If it wasnt for Cork City the chances are that Doyle would be one of those "where are they now" players. The coaching, training and diet/nutrition are all a major part of being a professional League of Ireland player now and for the last number of years.

While i dont doubt that Wolves have a great training facility, to say Doyle has only 4 years proper training is unfair - the year at Pats and the remarkable scoring during the 2-3 years at Cork have stood the lad in great stead as evidenced by his remarkably swift and smooth transition to life in the Championship and then Premiership.

For what its worth, out of all the players mentioned above i would only rate Defoe as the better striker. I think he stands shoulder to shoulder with the rest in terms of his value to his team.

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I think in more recent times Keith Fahey has said that his fitness was way behind his team mates when he joined Birmingham so I think there still is a massive difference between professionalism in England and Ireland

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Originally Posted by Razors left peg

I think in more recent times Keith Fahey has said that his fitness was way behind his team mates when he joined Birmingham so I think there still is a massive difference between professionalism in England and Ireland

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Did he not join in January and the season finished in November. I think that is probably the main reason.

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Did he not join in January and the season finished in November. I think that is probably the main reason.

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he was eligible to play from january but didnt he start training with them straight after the LOI season finished.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

appreciate the regular postings MIW but, while i know it wasnt your intention, i think you've done the league a bit of a disservice in that part of your post. If it wasnt for Cork City the chances are that Doyle would be one of those "where are they now" players. The coaching, training and diet/nutrition are all a major part of being a professional League of Ireland player now and for the last number of years.

While i dont doubt that Wolves have a great training facility, to say Doyle has only 4 years proper training is unfair - the year at Pats and the remarkable scoring during the 2-3 years at Cork have stood the lad in great stead as evidenced by his remarkably swift and smooth transition to life in the Championship and then Premiership.

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Didn't mean any offence by that. I know that the Irish league has come on leaps and bounds since it became professional and has done a great job in providing a platform for players like Doyle, Mooney, Fahey etc to bring on and develop their skills at home, as opposed to becoming lost in the cycle in England as young kids like Tony Sheridan did at Coventry.

The reference was more in context to being in relation to the other players Doyle was being compared against, such as Jermaine Defoe. Whereas, I am sure the coaches at Cork are highly qualified, I doubt that their youth coaches would be of the standard of those at West Ham, who as they never stop telling everyone is amongst the best in the country. Equally, the benefit of having a top class manager like Redknapp to learn under is immeasuarable in comparison. Another reason why I think Coppell, who as a class attacker himself, has helped develop Doyle's all-round game.

I'm sure that the physical, nutitional and coaching elements of the Irish league are very strong, however with the amount of money in the English game and the high prize for success, simply can't see how they can compete. Knowing how highly McCarthy and Steve Morgan value this for the future development of Wolves, I am hopeful that Doyle will continue this development as we have recently built a multi-million pound training ground with state of the art physical assessment equipment and have a massive team of highly qualified background staff (Our assistant-manager Terry Connor is one of the highest qualified coaches in the country).

Just a quick point Manc Irish Wolf, if you don't want to wind up some of the more sensitive LoI fans on here you should probably start calling it the League of Ireland, the Irish League is the Northern Irish league.

Otherwise I'd agree with your points. I think Fahey's fitness was particularly poor because the League of Ireland was just too easy for him at times and he could get away with not pushing himself in training. There's plenty of average players in the league who are incredibly fit and would have far less issue with the fitness levels if they moved over, their problem is they haven't got a fraction of Fahey's ability.

One can always improve fitness but you can't invent ability.

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Did he not join in January and the season finished in November. I think that is probably the main reason.

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Maybe, but I also think from seeing Jay O Shea on a regular basis that his fitness and core strenght wouldnt be up to Premiership standards

He came off the bench for Wolves tonight and straight away looked a class above everyone else on the Wolves team.Created more chances for himself in a short time than the other 2 lads that started did all night

He looked a class above everybody else.

Ya looking sharper and sharper with every minute, hopefully will peak for irelands final to games, that volley was a great effort/piece of build up play

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Originally Posted by Manblue

Ya looking sharper and sharper with every minute, hopefully will peak for irelands final to games, that volley was a great effort/piece of build up play

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Final 4 games you mean.

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Originally Posted by Crosby87

Final 4 games you mean.

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Id prefer if it was only 2 and we got automatic qualification:)