Well the point of my post was to give an example where a goalkeeper could be causing panic in the defence, to counter otoh's post which suggested that it was only defenders who unnerved keepers. (Which point was taken and all!)
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Well the point of my post was to give an example where a goalkeeper could be causing panic in the defence, to counter otoh's post which suggested that it was only defenders who unnerved keepers. (Which point was taken and all!)
Listen stu, your point using an example that doesn't quite work is still well taken against the point I wasn't making to begin with.....
I think we agree that keepers can cause even good defenders all sorts of issues. I wasn't suggesting otherwise. I lived through Tomer Chenchinski!
Well we only know this because you clarified your original post in response to mine though!Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
I think the willingness to brush off weaknesses or faults because a player is Irish - and this isn't just in this thread - is something that still happens a bit here.
I think I was quite clear to begin with thank you very much.....Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Yeah of course we do. We live in hope Stu....some of us anyway. Now maybe not enough hope to think Rocco Vata should be called up already!
I think Bazunu has the ingredients to be great but the road to greatness will be rocky. It's been a very quick rise up the leagues and he started from a really low level. He may even go down a level to come back up. Who knows, maybe he's just being exposed now but at 20 I think it's a bit too early to be saying that.
50% of the posts in the thread are from you. If you remove your posts (which is recommended as a year ago you were suggesting he'd be Portsmouth's third choice keeper), you'll see there're plenty of posts acknowledging mistakes and need for improvement.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
In the meantime, Bazunu has advanced from a Man City academy player with the thread's start in August 2020 to his current standing as a £12million PL regular. And he is still 20 years old.
Do you have a personal issue with Bazunu? (genuine question)
Do I have a personal issue with him? Nope. No more than I have a personal issue with the forwards I don't think are going to be 45-goal international strikers.
I do have an issue with the bias that all our players are great and mistakes are everyone else's fault (hyperbole there for emphasis). I think you can acknowledge his progress while noting errors (as I've tried to do - I've more than once said his move to Southampton was a brave one and the correct one)
And obviously I've an issue with people thinking Buffon is an LSL level keeper...
Forums have broad spectrums of opinions from the overly pessimistic to the overly optimistic. And it perfectly fine to call out these extremes when this occurs. But you are cluttering the thread playing police – 50% of the posts are from you. Chill out lad. If you acknowledge that keepers peak at a later age in their careers than outfield players (Buffon is still playing at 44 (and not on the beach)), perhaps this self-perceived overly optimistic forum bias in relation to the potential career trajectory of a 20-year old Bazunu has some merit?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
But why not call out downsides when they occur, rather than gloss over them with "He's playing behind a bad defence"? Even otoh (who I replied to) acknowledged that point in the spirit it was intended.
And nobody's playing police (well, maybe you are with your posts...); I'm not telling anyone they have to agree with me. Well, except about Buffon being better than LSL standard, but you'd be daft to think that in fairness.
Bazunu has the raw ingredients. We've seen it for ourselves with Ireland. The problem with Southampton is that it's a team full of players with raw ingredients/potential, without as many established pros to settle things down when things get messy.
I also think the Southampton backline has been exposed by poor quality at the defensive midfield position.
I believe Lavia's return for today's match will protect the backline and by extension Bazunu. A stabilizing win against Forest would do a world of good for Southampton/Bazunu and I'm hopeful that happens today.
Another defensive shambles in front of Bazunu and Southampton are 1-0 down once again.
Watching the game here. Southampton's defence...is...just awful. They set Forest through on goal from a position near the halfway line with 0 danger.
Bazunu not totally at fault for the goal that resulted from it but he should have just gotten across the line to at least have a chance at the shot instead of trying to get to the cross I think.
Southampton were a shambles in the second half of last season so it's no surprise to see them continue where they left off this season.
Now they've got the wish dot com version of Sean Dyche in as manager hoping to turn things around. At least they might have someone that could get them promoted from the championship next season.
Yes this is something I forgot to ask about. How is Nathan Jones managing in the premier league? He has done nothing to warrant this. Shambolic decision by Southampton
Well, I guess I called that wrong -- I underestimated Southampton's ability to self-sabotage by using their last men back to botch it.Quote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
Honestly, Bazunu is in a very tough position for any 'keeper, let alone one as young as he is. He is not the problem.
The bit highlighted in bold. He is playing behind a bad defence. And no, the defence is not bad because Bazunu is Irish and/ or Bazunu is emitting a negative panic aura on the team.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
As emphasis, and if watching Southampton play isn’t evidence enough, in an article titled “Armel Bella-Kotchap's honest Southampton admission ahead of 'big game' vs Nottingham Forest”, the defender says
Oh dear. Your pointing friend didn’t get the team memo.Quote:
It’s difficult because we conceded two goals from set-pieces,” Bella-Kotchap told the Southampton club website. “We talked about them and we want to improve that, but we conceded two easy goals and that cannot happen in the situation we are in. We have to defend properly.
…..
After conceding the [winning] goal it was like a disaster and it’s difficult for us in that situation and we have to defend properly as we said, and hopefully we can do better against Nottingham Forest.
https://www.hampshirelive.news/sport...int_source=nba
Keep trying. :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
To be fair Stu is just pointing out actual errors. There does seem to bit a bit more scrutiny on Bazunu than, let's say Collins though. Both are having similar seasons with very ropey performances and their club fans on their backs a bit after high expectations.
Collins plays outfield though so we seem to accept that he will make mistakes as he learns the new level. Nobody is calling him error prone...yet.
The reality is these lads are a work in progress. They have the potential to be very good but it's not happening overnight.
I watched the full game yesterday, something I definitely wont be doing again this year, watching southampton in full that is. Bazunu had 2 things to do all game and one ended up a goal. The whole defence is so shaky, theres panic and fear everytime the opposition attacks. I dont think its fair to blame Bazunu solely theres many players contributing to it but he definitely could be doing better and a good, experienced keeper would be marshalling and cajoling his defence together better than he is doing - thats probably my biggest negative about him.
THe only (young/youth)person I ever saw to cut out those type of "Error Prone" mistakes was Richard Dunne and I'd put that down to application and lifestyle more than anything else. Once that was sorted his concentration and performances improved. Gary breen started his career and finished it the same way i.e. capable of a dopey lapse in concentration or just stupid mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
Collins and Bazunu don't strike me as the guys who have the same application problems as Dunne.
That said Bazunu is very young to be playing in front of such a shaky defence in a pressure cooker environment. Hopefully his future isn't mapped out in scars.
Including from yourself above imho! I think he was totally blameless for the goal. He covered the near post which is his main job. The square ball just took him out of the picture totally.Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
As an Irish footy chat site of course we'll be highly subjective in our assessment of our players and I think there's more scrutiny on Bazunu because he is genuinely competing with one other strong candidate for only one available spot. Collins is one of a few CB options for three spots and I'd say there's near unanimity here that one of those should be Collins'.
Last season whenever I was looking at a Championship game I watched the goalkeepers a lot. I was trying to imagine the comments that any of the goalkeeping performances I saw would have attracted on foot.ie if the keeper in question was Kelleher or Bazunu and I was thinking we'd all mainly be waxing lyrical. Why? Simply because the standard of goalkeeping in the Championship is generally of a very high standard and most of these guys are seasoned professionals. Try this next time you're watching the Championship: imagine the keepers at either end are one of our main two and ask yourself what your impression would be. The difference (hopefully) being the ceiling that our two have is potentially higher and ours are also more in the modern goalkeeping mould than many in the Championship.
Last season I also watched Illan Meslier at Leeds and imagined the same situation i.e., if he was ours what would we be saying? He's indisputably a very talented keeper but at his worst he's let in soft goals and made unforced errors that would alarm us if he was ours and would be dissected to the nth degree here, and which would probably cost a senior goalkeeper his place in a PL team. But Leeds believe in him and I expect they'll be rewarded for doing so. In fact based on the France number 2’s uninspiring performance against Tunisia I’d say Meslier might soon be the French number one if Lloris retires.
Fingers crossed the two lads can give us as much as 63 cap, World Cup qualifying, Transfer Rumour of the Year Award recipient, error prone Gary Breen.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea