At what point will the outcry be so big that we might achieve change?
Iceland and the North and Wales are on the cusp of qualification.
We're on the cusp of elimination from the "easiest-to-qualify-for" tournament ever.
Blaming O'Neill and Keane is gonna get us no where. The damage is done long before they pick players for the national team.
Also, like Stutts I'm blaming Shay for the equaliser though a player of O'Shea's experience shouldn't have turned his back like that.
The damage was done in Scotland with a totally toothless performance and a terrible selection.
Things in control of the team and management are directly responsible nothing else.
I think Oshea thought he was getting out of the way, as it was going way wide, but he was too slow or not nimble enough to fully pull out of the way.
Was Shay going to get his Walking Stick ?Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
O'Neill should have had the Balls to leave him on the Bench.
So therefore we should not bother in Dublin?Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
They aren't blameless for the situation but they are not the main problem here. Irish soccer is in freefall.Quote:
Things in control of the team and management are directly responsible nothing else.
O'Shea shoudl KNOW that he is getting out of the way. Likewise Shay shoudl have KNOWN that the ball was sailing into the net.Quote:
I think Oshea thought he was getting out of the way, as it was going way wide, but he was too slow or not nimble enough to fully pull out of the way.
He should have. I was gutted when I saw him start.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
It was like watching the Croatia game in Euro2012 again.
The chances are high that Ireland will still be in with the chance of a playoff with a game to go. However, it looks like we will have to beat Poland in Warsaw to get this which I don't see happening.
We can beat Poland in warsaw. We can just trick them into shooting at their own net.
Sigh!
I don't know whether this feeling is what happens all football fans when they reach their mid-30's or if this is what happens to Ireland supporters following a succession of inept campaigns. Either way, me no likey.
I had started to think really positively in the last few days, then I saw the team sheet. Immediate deflation:
Daryl Murphy - not good enough.
Shay Given - undeserving of his place
Two forwards and not one of them Shane Long
McGeady dropped and McClean not started.
That said, there was plenty to be content with during the first half; and that should be the biggest sign of how bad things are getting: that a passible first half performance elicits an overreaction from 95% of the stakeholders of Irish football. This was nowhere near the best days of the past 7/8 years (say Italy away, Estonia away or Bulgaria away) it was just middle of the road.
Once the 60 minute mark had rolled by and our tempo hadn't gone up another notch, it was palpable that the game was going to finish in at best a draw.
I fear I've been over-critical on Shay Given, but I can't let it go. I thought he got an extremely easy ride for the cup final for the goals, he didn't look comfy against England, and he did not look comfy yesterday either. The shot was deflected but Given surely was anticipating the ball was intended for that corner anyway, and didn't move at all. I'm probably overreacting, but it's because Westwood should be number 1. I thought Coleman offered his best better than for a long time, but his final ball was obviously poor. That said, Murphy's movement was shocking, truly shocking.
Brady was far from brilliant, and I bemoan how many people are lulled into thinking what Dunphy says is fact. He attacked the space well a couple of times. His delivery btw was in no way better than McGeady who is constantly criticised.
I thought John O'Shea had a much improved game. He was imperious in the air, and I lost count the number of times he attacked the ball on the ground and won it ahead of Fletcher. His distribution was weak, and he is at fault for the back 4 dropping so deep, when holding a higher line would have given Scotland less space to play into.
Marc Wilson I would jettison. He is not an International standard centre-half.
I actually though both McCarthy and Whelan did fine. Problem is they both do the same thing, and we only need one to do that.
A problem we're failling to solve is how to marry being a strong, tall, physical group, with being a quick, clever, technical team. The type of players we want to move the ball around, are unfortunately not that big. I suspect this might be why Long didn't start with Wes.
Think of the marginal calls: Murphy/Long; Hendrick/Quinn; Wes/McClean; Ward/Brady - in picking the two small lads, it meant he needed to compensate in the air. It is definitely a factor even if others don't want to acknowledge it.
Hendrick was a lot of nothing, without doing anything particularly wrong at the same time. Didn't recycle the ball particularly well though.
Wes was a wonder when we actually got the ball to him. He's sees things none of our other players see. Three times he ran with the ball into areas that petrified Scotland, and we really should have capitalised twice.
at the risk of repeating myself, this management team is just Trapattoni's Ireland wrapped in a different quilt. I've all but stopped reading mainstream sports reporting because it doesn't ask the questions that need to be asked. (Emmet Malone has gone stale. We don't have a Gerry Thornley equivalent. I'd like to read Ian O'Riordan grilling Irish soccer).
Why hasn't Westwood returned to the number 1 jersey?
Why do we persist with a system that doesn't play to our strengths?
instead of saying "We don't have the players!" why persist with the same players who do the same things ad nauseum?
Why play two holding central midfield players at home in a must-win match?
Why arrange friendlies that are more than friendlies (England) when developing the squad is so important and those matches prevent from doing so?
I have said before and will continue to say that if we want our international team to play football, then we need to pick footballers. Pick one of
I honestly feel that so many people have lost what should have been noted with Grealish. It was a travesty that it took the CUp semi-final performance to get a clamour for his inclusion. He should have been around the first team 18 months ago. A player of his qualities, once he proved he could take the rough and tumble of league two, was always going to be suited to international football.
There are a lot of educated football fans on this forum. A lot more than most other places. We're pretty well versed on what options are available to us. I do not agree that we don't have players that can improve the squad. The point was made about how Norn Iron have compiled their squad. They've cut their cloth accordingly. We have not however. We've essentially picked the highest ranked players in their positions, irrespective of how much football they play. I watch the Premier League. It's sh!t. The football is sh!t. I watch the championship. The football there is good. I want to see Harry Arter, Tommy Hoban, Reece Grego-Cox, Derrick Williams, Samir Carruthers all get a chance in the next few squads. Name Patrick Bamford and Jack Grealish in the squads. They are Irish players as they've played underage football with us. Make Fifa get involved, and force the issue.
I want Eoin Doyle to get a chance too. What are the weakest positions in the squad? A goal-scoring centre-forward, a proper link man, and a left full. Either solve those positions properly, or set the team up to elimate the problem. We don't have a left-full? No problem, we'll play 352 with wing backs, Coleman one side, Brady/McClean the other.
I'm sick of seeing the same rubbish year in, year out. We've a home game with Georgia, and a free pass v Gibralter. No excuses, pick a development team v the Rock.
------------------------Westwood--------------------
-------------Duffy--------O'Shea--------Clark--------
Coleman -----------------mcCarthy--------------McClean
--------------Hoolahan---------------McGeady------------
---------------------------Bamford-----------------------
-----------------------------Long------------------------
Just on the general Irish football development thing.....
I'm pretty upset about how things have developed in Irish football pretty much since I've been a schoolboy myself. I personally disagree that Irish schoolboy football is not good enough. I would agree that things could be done differently in the 10-13 bracket, sure, but I don't think it's all doom and gloom. Facilities could definitely be better. Being around a schoolboy team, I see week-in week-out some excellent footballers, on our pitch and the surrounding pitches. I've also spent the guts of a year in England, and would say that their system is slightly better than ours, but the players are not. What they do that impressed me is that they did have an elite level squad at county from under 6's up, and the physical standard of those boys was incredible compared to mine, but not necessarily their technical ability.
I was in or around the Kerr squad that won the under 16's. I would have been definitely top 5 centre-back in Dublin, and probably 6/7th choice overall. defensively excellent, but extremely nervous on the ball, and it wasn't until I was playing football at a poor level that I began to have confidence in myself. I think more could be done to educate the schoolboys on the options open to them, both in football terms, and football-based college programs. I didn't come from a soccer family, and none of my mates were into organised football, so I didn't have that benefit.
What I would love to see would be an intergrated effort by the Dept Sport, Education and the FAI, that our promising schoolboys have programs available that helps them reach the highest possible standard they can, while also getting a relevant education. Use languages that open avenues for the kids that can play so that they do not have to go down the english treadmill all the time. The likes of Colaiste Naofa in Cork and Colaiste Ide in Finglas don't get as much exposure as they should. They run relatively decent football courses, which give plenty of kids the opportunity of a scholarship in America. I found out about these places too late in life.
Something that does upset me about schoolboy football, is the lack of progression. St Kevin's Boys should be a leading League of Ireland club, given the sheer number of players they have on their books. But they don't. From what I can see, their sole aim is to get as many kids across to England as possible, no different to Belvedere before them, or Home Farm before them, or Cherry Orchard before them.
This is where the FAI need to step up to the plate. They are the guys that hold all the aces. They pick the national underage teams. Set out guidelines that will completely restructure Irish football, as the FAI feel it needs to be, and then get all clubs to ascede to them. You won't? Fine, no schoolboy internationals for you. That will change attitudes quickly. Because a parent or schoolboy might want to play for Liverpool/United, but they also want to play for their country too, because the chances of it happening the higher up the line get slimmer and slimmer.
Just in case anyone thinks this is idealistic crap or that, I'm doing what I believe in. I have a boy of 8, who is the smallest in his team, and he is technically excellent, tough as nails and uber-confident. He can read a game and is two-footed. It has come from hours spent outside telling him what to do, and from watching matches with the sound off, so that he isn't getting someone elses idea of what constitutes a good player, as defined by English media. He is and will continue to learn foreign languages, so that if the time comes that he is able to make a decision to pursue a career in football, he'll have options that suit him.
He does not play for a "big" team. He is coached by a technically brilliant person in Tony Sheridan, and from what I see every week, I wouldn't have it any other way because he is getting exactly what he needs right now.
We need Scotland to drop points against Georgia, simple as that. If they do we have work to do but in our hands again. If they win then we are, unfortunately, deservedly, out!
To be fair to Given in the first half he did roll it out quite a bit. The approach changed after they scored.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Maybe that was the instruction from the sideline or maybe it was panic?
Georgia v Scotland
Germany v Poland
Gibraltar v Ireland
Poland v Gibraltar
Ireland v Georgia
Scotland v Germany
Georgia v Gibraltar
Ireland v Germany
Scotland v Poland draw
Germany v Georgia
Gibraltar v Scotland
Poland v Ireland
Germany 25
Poland 18
Scotland 18
Ireland 18
Georgia 6
Gibraltar 0
If this were to happen, how would the 3 teams be separated?
I also depressingly noticed that if we didn't score our 3 injury time goals against Georgia, Germany & Poland we'd currently be on 5 points.
I dont think i've ever agreed with you as much as on that post above kingdom! I texted my mates and Stutts and CTP at half time saying i didnt think we had played that well, but i could sense those watching on TV thought we would have, and all my mates texted me saying exactly that. I texted and said we have created absolutely nothing, and we hadn't!
[qoute]A problem we're failling to solve is how to marry being a strong, tall, physical group, with being a quick, clever, technical team. The type of players we want to move the ball around, are unfortunately not that big. I suspect this might be why Long didn't start with Wes.
Think of the marginal calls: Murphy/Long; Hendrick/Quinn; Wes/McClean; Ward/Brady - in picking the two small lads, it meant he needed to compensate in the air. It is definitely a factor even if others don't want to acknowledge it.[/quote]
Quinn made this point last week, I was half thinking he might have been looking for an excuse for himself(not being picked that is), but this is exactly what he said. Perhaps that's it.
Eoin Doyle or Daryl Murphy, neither are good enough, so i wouldn't agree with the last couple of paragraphs, the pl is better than the championship also, you cant legitimately argue that either. Overall good points well made.
You are like me now, the 5 emotions after an Ireland performance where we didn't get the result we needed. Turning to despair and anger now :D
Did you get that from YBIG John? Poland would be behind us, if we beat them. Scotland would be ahead of us. But what would depend is how scotland and poland do against eachother.Quote:
Originally Posted by IsMiseSean
If the results were all the same and couldn't be separated it would be goals scored away from home etc, then down to straws I think...
Great post Kingdom.
Think the LOI clubs need to step up to the plate as well as regards an alternative. You can only enforce that ban on only picking players based in Ireland on underage teams if they have access to similar type facilities for academies for clubs within the league here I think .
In that scenario, you'd have a mini table amongst the 3 teamsQuote:
Originally Posted by IsMiseSean
Poland 2-2 Scotland
Scotland 1-0 Ireland
Ireland 1-1 Poland
Ireland 1-1 Scotland
Scotland draw Poland
Poland lose Ireland
Scotland 6pts
Ireland 5pts
Poland 3pts
We'd pip the Poles to Playoffs
I gave up on YBIG, it's hard enough listening to them on matchdays in the singing section lately.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
That's all my own hard work, but if I knew it was on YBIG I would have done a copy & paste job :D
People are quick to say Germany will beat Poland at home and Scotland away.Quote:
Originally Posted by IsMiseSean
So far they have P3 W1(Sco) L1(Pol) D1 (ROI) - and you can hardly say their form is good after a defeat to the USA last week. Be interesting to see the reaction if Poland draw in Germany.
Whats App exchange between me, Crafty and Paul at half time:Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Crafty: Very happy with that as a half, even minus a goal. Tempo, passing, controlled intelligent aggression. Runs. And good to watch.
Paul. Yep.
Me: Nothing!
I did say here at half-time that I agreed with the post above (by passing interest) saying we played well and the game was set up for Long and McClean to come on later, if we were still ahead. I said I worried about our lack of experience of winning these games and felt we'd need some luck and for the lads to keep the heads and believe.
But yeah, Paul's right!
I was baffled before the game by the selection and still am.
Murphy- not good enough. I'm struggling to think of more than or two occasions when he actually found an Irish player with a flick on.
Whelan and McCarthy- I actually thought Whelan was very good. He made life much easier for the defence in that he was always an outlet and did push on when we were attacking. I thought McCarthy was very poor beside him and can't fathom how Whelan was taken off first. McCarthy provided little go forward ball and was turned backwards by the Scottish terriers in the middle of the park more often than not.
Hoolahan and Hendrick- A big contrast here. Hoolahan drove forward at will and was always creative. Hendrick, as I've stated before, looks completely swamped when he takes more than one touch and when pressed by the Scots he looked uncomfortable. I can't understand how he started ahead of McClean. McClean's direct approach was one of the things we lacked. Brady tried to implement directness each time he got the ball by moving at pace and with urgency... forward. McClean would have added something like that but not from within the shackles of left back.
Coleman and Brady- both tried to be positive but Coleman's crossing was off and he didn't get enough space to do damage. Brady was excellent defensively and offensively. Again, I think he's shackled at left-back.
Wilson and O'Shea- Both were very good. I think O'Shea was immense and nothing went by him, other than that cruel, cruel deflection for the Scotland goal.
The team really disappointed me so at least my expectations going into the stadium weren't as high as they had been before that selection. Long and McClean would have offered us exactly what we needed in that match- directness and urgency. The selection has left us facing an uphill battle to qualify. It shouldn't be like this. Scotland aren't special.
I think we're already clutching at straws :(Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea