Potentially eligible players thread

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Cirkin was born here. That's about as far from "tenuous" as it gets.

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As far from tenuous as it gets would be to be born here, to Irish parents, and remained growing up here beyond the age of three, I would say. I'm not questioning his eligibility, I'm questioning whether it's a fair to say it's the "equivilant" of McGeady/McCarthy. Do you think it is?

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Cirkin was born here. That's about as far from "tenuous" as it gets.

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McGrath & O'Leary born in England. And I would describe their Englishness as tenuous yes & that's before you consider Cirkin has a third country, his parents one in the mix.

Silence is deafening.

These are actually interesting points. Is obafemi really irish for example? Born in Dublin, left for london very quickly. Parents and culture Nigerian.

His Irishness is as solid or as tenuous as he wants it to be, I guess.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

As far from tenuous as it gets would be to be born here, to Irish parents, and remained growing up here beyond the age of three, I would say. I'm not questioning his eligibility, I'm questioning whether it's a fair to say it's the "equivilant" of McGeady/McCarthy. Do you think it is?

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If you're born here, you're Irish. If your parent, or grandparent, was born here, you're Irish. There's no levels of Irishness.

So Kevin Kilbane is English then, whether he likes it or not?

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

So Kevin Kilbane is English then, whether he likes it or not?

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See below

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

If you're born here, you're Irish. If your parent, or grandparent, was born here, you're Irish. There's no levels of Irishness.

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Sorry tets - that's nonsense. There absolutely is differing levels of Irishness. Cirkin is an obvious example. He is absolutely eligible to play for Ireland, and that is a black or white question, but he will probably the first to acknowledge that he's less Irish than I am.

Or this article from the Indo in 2015 does a very good job of showing differing levels of Irishness among former Ireland players. Compare "I was born in Dublin but it never felt like home" (Steve Heighway) with "Others might have mentioned the fact that I wasn’t born in Ireland but it was never a problem for me. My dad was from Donegal so I never really thought of it as a big issue." (Ray Houghton) They're clearly expressing differing levels of Irishness.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

See below

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I saw it the first time. It doesn't stack up though. Is Patrick Bamford as Irish as you or me, even though he considers himself 'more' English? Of course there are levels of Irishness.

I don't see it that way, and I've seen where the "this person isn't as Irish as this person" discussion ends. If you have a passport, you're Irish, if you don't, you're not.

So even though I've quoted people to whom this actually relates, and who do see different levels of Irishness, you know better, end of story?

I've already distinguished between eligibility (which is black and white) and culture/feeling (which can vary), so your passport comment isn't relevant to the degrees of Irishness question.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

If you're born here, you're Irish. If your parent, or grandparent, was born here, you're Irish. There's no levels of Irishness.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

I don't see it that way, and I've seen where the "this person isn't as Irish as this person" discussion ends. If you have a passport, you're Irish, if you don't, you're not.

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Which is it though? If you're born in another country to Irish parents you're Irish? But if you don't yet have an Irish passport you're not?

And does that also mean that if you obtain an Irish passport at, say, 30 you become Irish instead of being your previous nationality?

I think you're oversimplifying here in a big way and it's borderline offensive to those whose nationality isn't 100% clear cut.

Being born in a Stable does not make you a Horse. I don’t think Mr Wellington thought of himself as Irish.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-...ears-1.2244707

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Originally Posted by sadloserkid

I think you're oversimplifying here in a big way and it's borderline offensive to those whose nationality isn't 100% clear cut.

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And also offensive to the many who consider themselves 100% Irish but hold British passports, so - by Tets' (most recent) criteria are British - end of discussion. There are no levels of Britishness, after all.

Patrick Bamford was heavily tipped to get his first England call up today. No such luck- Ollie Watkins has been preferred to him.

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

Patrick Bamford was heavily tipped to get his first England call up today. No such luck- Ollie Watkins has been preferred to him.

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England have a lot of good forwards to choose from. I wonder if we had qualified for a major tournament would Bamford and some others have been a lot keener to get on board ?

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

And also offensive to the many who consider themselves 100% Irish but hold British passports, so - by Tets' (most recent) criteria are British - end of discussion. There are no levels of Britishness, after all.

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While I don't agree with tets on this, he seems to have said that this is binary, not exclusive, i.e. that that person would be both Irish and English. He just doesn't qualify their Irishness.

Yes, it's the 'and English' bit that many would find offensive though.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

Yes, it's the 'and English' bit that many would find offensive though.

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I've always found the Wellington quote pretty awful, and it's the mirror image of that.