I notice TOWK's been pretty quiet round this and the Everton Irish thread since James went off against Wolfsburg...
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I notice TOWK's been pretty quiet round this and the Everton Irish thread since James went off against Wolfsburg...
In my defense, James did pass a fitness test to play for Ireland against Scotland, our own manager said he would have played if it was a club game and Everton mislead us about the extent of his problems.
I wonder if Martinez will blame his own habit of playing McCarthy in every single league and midweek European game for his injuries like he did Gibson picking up injuries with us?
McCarthy has never got injured on International duty.
Did he pass a fitness test? Or was it that a scan showed no damage? There's a difference. I think the player himself didn't feel right to train on the Thursday. It'd appear that his own knowledge of his body and his lack of trust in his hamstring was pretty was well founded in hindsight, no?
Yes, it'd be disingenuous to say he passed a fitness test when he never took one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
But James himself, combined with the fact he'd not trained the whole week in advance, stated he didn't yet feel one hundred per cent right. Are you suggesting he was deceiving our management and medical staff? He clearly wasn't, seeing as the issue (of which you were not merely sceptical, but completely disbelieving) arose pretty quickly again and is now keeping him out of club action. Clearly, there's a lower fitness threshold or expectation for club football because clubs are the employers, but that's a separate matter; the fact remains he didn't feel right and, whilst possibly of a level of fitness deemed sufficient to play in a club game (although I think that's open to speculation), he may not have been at a level of fitness deemed safe enough to throw him into an international game.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
Can you provide the direct quote(s) where Martin stated what you claim he said? I thought Martin said something along the lines of James maybe being able to play if he'd had an extra two or three days or so. I don't recall him ever accusing Everton of misleading us.
In fairness I think O'Neill did say that had it been an Everton game he thinks he'd have played. This could be interpreted as the player lacking commitment but instead I think it reflected the reality that Ireland is borrowing an Everton asset and hence have more of a responsibility to ensure he doesn't take unnecessary risks. Everton can pressurise or risk their own players into playing, Ireland don't have that luxury.
I think it was Keane who made accusations wrt Everton, and O'Neill was more diplomatic saying there are channels to discuss these things directly.
That's how I remember it.
I think the most important piece of information we can take from this saga is that James McCarthy knows his body better than anybody from this message board. Surprising I know, but we have four months until the next game to wrap our heads around it.
And Keane said it in a waggish manner, according to reports. Either way, events since have proven that the scepticism (if genuine) and conspiracy theories were unwarranted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Yer hero on here,martinez referred to luck playing a big part in games and inferred that was the difference today.
Whatever about Mccarthys injury or injuries he always played with Everton regardless. The same can't be said for us.
Yes Paul, Martinez is our hero. Despite nobody having said a positive word about him since about 2012.
But he does not get so long to recover for internationals, normally he will have seven days but for a midweek international it is only three.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Martinez will probably say that himself at some time in the future.
But that's just not true. He's out at the minute and he missed out for Everton prior to our games against Gibraltar and Germany.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
What gave you the (completely incorrect) impression that Martinez was my hero?
I think Martinez is a classy operator and a gent of the game. He has been an invaluable part of McCarthy's progress as a footballer, Coleman has kicked on to another level under him and he brought McGeady back from the dead when things got frosty in Moscow. I think we have a lot to be grateful for as Irish supporters to be honest, not that we were on his mind or anything.
He has played for Everton regardless of whether he's been injured or not?Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Going to be offered a new contract according to this?
And yet some people still resent him and think he has it in for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
Just because you mightn't have time for the conspiracy theories, it doesn't mean you have an irrational love for Martinez. In fact, you can still acknowledge the beneficial influence he has had on the careers of Coleman, McGeady and McCarthy without necessarily viewing the man as some sort of hero figure. He's a football manager - a good one - who does his job and protects the interests of his club. He doesn't owe us anything. That doesn't mean he has some particular problem with us either. He actually says he has a positive relationship with Martin.
Practically all of McCarthy's Irish caps have come under Martinez management at club level anyway. He has played a lot of friendlies that nobody would have been too fussed if he had missed. I find it hard to believe that Martinez would start digging his heels in, without good reason, for crucial qualifiers all of a sudden. Missing the Gibraltar/Germany games was justified by missing the game at Old Trafford shortly before, yet people focus on the fact that he recovered in time for Everton's next league game. It has become abundantly clear, with hindsight, that his hamstring hasn't been right for a few weeks and that the Scotland game came too early for him, as MON himself accepted.
Mick McCarthy would have played him. A quick run up and down the hotel corridor and few twists would have sealed Mick's fitness test.
It's almost as if the longer you leave an injury the more it heals.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
Lost in all the self-congratulation and validation arising from McCarthy's injury is that Naismith, Barry, Distin, Stones, Barkley, Baines, Pienaar and Mirallas have all missed game time within the last two months due to injury, yet there only seems to be so much analysis and introspection over it when McCarthy is involved.
A scan (fitness test typo my bad!) showed that McCarthy could play against Germany. McCarthy, under some pressure from his, club elected not to. O'Neill said he would have played if it was a league game but McCarthy made a judgement call. Fair enough their concerns may have had a greater basis than I gave thought to but equally Everton played him continuously after the Germany game and why start him in a midweek European game if it was such a problem for him to play Internationally? Their injury problems are so bad this season that McCarthy's knock against Wolfsburg may be unrelated to the one accrued before the Scotland game. It would certainly explain why they felt the urge to start him twice in the space of <5 days. Indeed their injury problems are such this season that perhaps they should look inward and worry about their own medical teams expertise rather than complaining about players representing their country!
If I'm paranoid, what is Martin O'Neill then? People said we should take Everton's word for it & reserve diplomacy when Coleman & McCarthy missed the Germany game. Then they blamed our guys incompetence for not being more assertive about analysing their fitness. Then they say McCarthy knows his own body such and such this and that after our guys get to analyse him and judge him to be ready for the Scotland game.
Yes, McCarthy didn't train enough to realistically put himself into contention but that's the rub. When he should have been given the same training regiment as everybody else you had all this pussyfooting about because of Everton sticking their beaks in.
Who knows? Maybe I am judging Martinez too harshly because of some of his past behaviors! I said that in the very first comment related to this entire subject. It would have saved everybody a lot of hassle if they took that into consideration at the start!
Ha!Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
And hang on, where was this scan before the Germany match reported?