Robbie Keane

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03/02/2011, 12:28 PM
Drumcondra 69er

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

Dunphy haha! He's definitely got more enemies than Robbie.....

Scoring loads of goals for your national side doesn't necessarily make you world class in my book. Jon Dahl Tomasson, Jan Koller, Podolski (very good player but he's not top drawer), Pauleta of Portugal. The list goes on.

Dunphy??? :) Give it a rest, he quite rightly criticised his management abilities but this is the man who once said to Bill O'Herlihy with a straight face on RTE that 'Roy Keane is right about EVERYTHING!'.

What do you define as World Class by the way and how many world class players has there ever been by your definition? How many World Class players are allowed at any one time?
03/02/2011, 12:30 PM
Serb

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

Andy Gray said England had 8 WORLD CLASS players

Maybe he meant player in the "ladies man" sense. In that case, they had at least two world class players in John Terry and Wayne Rooney.
03/02/2011, 12:36 PM
tetsujin1979

Quote:

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

All semantics. Who cares if he's "world class" (whatever that means). He's ours and he scores and is 29th in the list of record international goal scorers. Never heard of the Iranian on top of the list mind you. Rubbing shoulders with David Villa and Schevchenko.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_int...ers_by_country

He played against us for Iran in the play off for the 2002 World Cup, was probably their highest profile player at the time because he was playing in Germany
03/02/2011, 12:39 PM
cornflakes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serb

Maybe he meant player in the "ladies man" sense. In that case, they had at least two world class players in John Terry and Wayne Rooney.

Rooney isn't world class at that either, he had to feckin pay for a ride
03/02/2011, 12:46 PM
Kingdom

I've searched back two pages, and the best can be said is that it's drivel. My complaint was that a rusty Robbie, the wrong side of thirty going a season without football would not be good for Ireland. He was off kilter against Slovakia (not taking into account the penalty). That could have been an off-day or the start of a greater malaise. He got a move, a good move for him, and a good move for Ireland, and he's scored already. That should keep him in good stead for the remainder of the campaign.

What does my head in here in the past while, is that debating the pro's and cons of a players situation and how it relates to the National team, opinions seems to be going to extremes and regular discussion breaks down.
It's very simple for me. Robbie Keane, playing regularily at club level, is an automatic pick for the National team, due to in part his great record with us (and it is a great record) but also because he won't lose any of his best facets as he gets older. He was never lightening fast, always tricky. And he always does well with a big barging centre forward*.

But, and it's a massive but, if he isn't playing regularily, and he hasn't been the past while, then his place comes under threat in the team,as it should (as every other position and player should), as it is a vital position. The threat intensifies when a player such as Shane Long starts to become more prominent and starts scoring freely. That is natural and that is right. I can understand pointing to Robbie's stats when he is playing regular football as an indicator as to why he's an auto pick, but to point to his stats when he isn't playing and hasn't been playing football for 9 months is about as relevant as pointing out Aldo's stats for Ireland.
Hopefully Robbie's move will put this debate to bed for now.

*Kevin Doyle has played that role tremendously well for us, and does not get half the credit he deserves for it. People point to his lack of goalscoring but that is very unfair. Doyler has scored good goals for us, and in his aerial ability is a commodity that we as a team are lacking in. Until Walters or Best start showing that they have what it takes to displace him on a regular basis then he's a sticky for me. A very undervalued player in my opinion
03/02/2011, 12:52 PM
Serb

Quote:

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

He played against us for Iran in the play off for the 2002 World Cup, was probably their highest profile player at the time because he was playing in Germany

Players playing in the Asian Confederation have skewed goal scoring stats because they play against such hopeless teams. Daei scored 4 goals in a 19-0 win over Guam, twice in a 17-0 win over the Maldives, 4 in an 8-0 win over Nepal and 5 in a 7-0 win over Sri Lanka. It looks like Iran regularly won by 6 goals or more during his time as a player.

Ireland on the other hand don't score very many goals at all. We've only won by more than one goal once in Trappatoni's tenure, and even our last two meetings against "Europe's worst team" San Marino only yielded 7 goals for and one against. Finland and Hungary both managed 8 goals in one game against them in the past couple of months.

That makes Keane's achievement all the more impressive in my book.
03/02/2011, 12:59 PM
Wolfie

F*ck the stats. If you're not playing first team football for an extended period of time, your starting place on the national team is legitamately open to a challenge.

I've a lot of respect for Robbies achievements with Ireland but noone is bigger than the team.
03/02/2011, 1:09 PM
geysir

So Wolfie, in your opinion, Robbie thinks he is bigger than the team?

Jesus is beyond weeping at this stage with the amount of utter drivel being uttered.
03/02/2011, 1:14 PM
dr_peepee

Robbie Keane... Over rated and under rated in equal measure... We'll pine for him when he's gone but!!!
03/02/2011, 1:45 PM
osarusan

Quote:

Originally Posted by geysir

So Wolfie, in your opinion, Robbie thinks he is bigger than the team?

There's no way you could objectively have concluded that was his point.
03/02/2011, 2:06 PM
shakermaker1982

Quote:

Originally Posted by osarusan

There's no way you could objectively have concluded that was his point.

Just about to post the exact same thing.
03/02/2011, 3:12 PM
KK77

Did he support West Ham as a young fella anyone know? PMSL
03/02/2011, 3:32 PM
Stuttgart88

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfie

I've a lot of respect for Robbies achievements with Ireland but noone is bigger than the team.

That suggests to me that Wolfie thinks Robbie thinks he's bigger than the team.

I've a lot of respect for Geysir's achievements in Iceland but I hate perverts.
03/02/2011, 3:51 PM
DeLorean

It suggests to me that management shouldn't pick Keane based on his reputation, but on his current situation. Nothing to do with how Keane feels himself.
03/02/2011, 4:03 PM
amaccann

It's also worth suggesting that when you have a squad full of "untouchables" - ie, players who get picked no matter how poor their club form is (assuming they're even playing) - I can't see how that would improve morale. I'm sure they all get on as a squad, but I'd be surprised if the likes of Stokes, Long etc. don't feel a little frustrated that Keane gets the automatic nod, despite having an absolute torrid time at club level.

Yes, he's a loyal servant to Ireland (who isn't though in fairness?), he's our top scorer blah blah blah, but even Keane hasn't been quite able to rise above his club form while playing for Ireland. His rustiness has showed, and we shouldn't glorify some players above others.
03/02/2011, 4:11 PM
paul_oshea

Quote:

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

All semantics. Who cares if he's "world class" (whatever that means). He's ours and he scores and is 29th in the list of record international goal scorers. Never heard of the Iranian on top of the list mind you. Rubbing shoulders with David Villa and Schevchenko.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_int...ers_by_country

according to that bobby charlton has 67?

berbatov and klose particularly record is very good as is villa. The thing is when you are in a top team you don't need to rely on one player, hence the goals are shared out. But robbie takes all our penos, and has been for years our only real source for a goal. I would say others like henry etc, would have plenty more had they been relied upon as heavily on as we do keane.
03/02/2011, 4:14 PM
paul_oshea

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingdom

I've searched back two pages, and the best can be said is that it's drivel. My complaint was that a rusty Robbie, the wrong side of thirty going a season without football would not be good for Ireland. He was off kilter against Slovakia (not taking into account the penalty). That could have been an off-day or the start of a greater malaise. He got a move, a good move for him, and a good move for Ireland, and he's scored already. That should keep him in good stead for the remainder of the campaign.

What does my head in here in the past while, is that debating the pro's and cons of a players situation and how it relates to the National team, opinions seems to be going to extremes and regular discussion breaks down.
It's very simple for me. Robbie Keane, playing regularily at club level, is an automatic pick for the National team, due to in part his great record with us (and it is a great record) but also because he won't lose any of his best facets as he gets older. He was never lightening fast, always tricky. And he always does well with a big barging centre forward*.

But, and it's a massive but, if he isn't playing regularily, and he hasn't been the past while, then his place comes under threat in the team,as it should (as every other position and player should), as it is a vital position. The threat intensifies when a player such as Shane Long starts to become more prominent and starts scoring freely. That is natural and that is right. I can understand pointing to Robbie's stats when he is playing regular football as an indicator as to why he's an auto pick, but to point to his stats when he isn't playing and hasn't been playing football for 9 months is about as relevant as pointing out Aldo's stats for Ireland.
Hopefully Robbie's move will put this debate to bed for now.

*Kevin Doyle has played that role tremendously well for us, and does not get half the credit he deserves for it. People point to his lack of goalscoring but that is very unfair. Doyler has scored good goals for us, and in his aerial ability is a commodity that we as a team are lacking in. Until Walters or Best start showing that they have what it takes to displace him on a regular basis then he's a sticky for me. A very undervalued player in my opinion

Kingdom, whatever about the other pages being drivel, you have just expanded on it. I think that was the jist of what most were saying...
03/02/2011, 4:16 PM
paul_oshea

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

That suggests to me that Wolfie thinks Robbie thinks he's bigger than the team.

I've a lot of respect for Geysir's achievements in Iceland but I hate perverts.

So stutts, in your opinion, geysir is a pervert?

geysir will probably only get this one mind...
03/02/2011, 4:43 PM
tetsujin1979

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

according to that bobby charlton has 67?

so fix it then
really bothers me when people complain about the accuracy of facts on a wiki page and then do nothing about it
03/02/2011, 9:33 PM
paul_oshea

Who am i to correct wiki?besides I've work to be doing

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