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It was from the FORAS account; whoever had that account must have some info.
Weren't Cork in a bit of financial trouble over pre-season as well? That's hardly improved with crowds banned. I don't know the ins and outs of it obviously, but it does look like there's more to fix than just the manager
Is the ex-board member causing mischief or is he detached enough, possibly with insight/inside info, that has is worried. Posting from the wrong account sounds more plausible that its deliberate. Fans nearly always side on denial 'nothing to see here' until scrambling to save a club. As has been said before, Cork rely heavily on their solid attendances and likely set a budget for that. Over reliance on this started the tailspin and now there are 0 fans in attendance. Cork will have other income too but I doubt Fenn and squad were completely bargain bin cost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
Mountain out of a molehill re the tweet. Wouldn't read anything into it.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
As for finances. Debt cleared pre-season (stipulation to get a license) and majority of playing costs covered by Financial assistance from elsewhere so I don't really see how we would be in trouble any deeper than any other club tbh - The squad we have is mostly loanees and kids which is the reason why we are in this mess now.
Relegation would be a disaster imo as our larger fan base which might give us a financial edge in the first division would obviously be gone for next season anyway under what now looks like long term restrictions on gatherings - even if we move to L1 or L2 again. If we can stay up we are in a good position to reset in the new year - hopefully with some sort of competent manager.
Never fancied Fenn as a manger. Lazy as a player (talented, yes) and I didn't see what he had done at Longford that said he would be a game-changer for us. It has been some few years. I just hope we have reached to bottom of the barrel and Healy keeps us up, unfortunately i think our race is run though from a Premier Division perspective.
Debt (Revenue debt) cleared pre-season isn't a licensing stipulation. An agreement/repayment schedule to clear the debt is the requirement - two very different things.
We had an agreement to pay it back, revenue changed their mind on that last minute and we were pretty close to not getting a license. Mr. Trevor Hemmings via Grovemoor Limited bought the transfer clauses of Alan Browne and Seani Maguire in order to help clear the debt that would prevent us playing in 2020. A stipulation of that is that FORAS would consider an offer from Grovemoor to buy the club outright. Based on the information we have been given (virtually none as of yet) there is almost no chance his offer is accepted.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
We had no outstanding debts with revenue at the start of the season. There is some other debt but nothing that causes existential issues. Covid-19 has obviously made things difficult for every club, and we don't have cash reserves to help offset the lack of income from crowds.
None of this has anything to do with Neale Fenn who has done an awful job, other than perhaps meaning the money wasn't there to bring in a replacement earlier in the season when an escape might have been more realstic. He had what was described as a competitive budget at the start of the season. I took that to mean middle of the pack, unrealistic to expect a title challenge, but if things went well we could be in a battle for Europe, and if things went badly we could be in a relegation scrap, perhaps my interpretation of that was optimistic. As it happens we have been one of the worst Premier Division teams in recent memory. Perhaps not as bad as the Galway team from 2011, but similar to the Dundalk team from 2012, albeit in a different league format and far fewer games. Few of his loan signings have been good enough, though its hard to judge them because the team has been so badly organised. We would have conceded double figures if Dundalk or Rovers were in town rather than Pats who did their best to miss gilt edge chance after gilt edged chance. I liked Fenn as a player, but did not think he achieved all that much at Longford, and while I don't take any pleasure in anyone losing their job, especially during a pandemic/recession, I think it was clear he had failed to get the most out of this bunch of players, players he signed.
El-Pietro looking at the league table in terms of goals scored, goals conceeded and the fact that Harps & Shels have played a game more, there is only really a lucky bounce of the ball between ye. Surely some of the new lads have gradually improved from day 1 of the league. It does take a bit to get up to pace.
Is it all to do with player ability or team application in following Fenn's instructions, in terms of Cork's downfall?
Our game in hand is against Dundalk, who now have a few days rest before playing us. No chance they do anything except go all out for the win, they still need to qualify for Europe for next year. Our real chance to stay up was over the last few weeks, draws with Shels and harsp and a loss to Pats. We needed points from those games. Its still possible we get to a playoff but it seems unlikely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrufil
Player ability/application all falls on Fenn. If they players aren't good enough its because he signed bad players. If they are good players but they have been coached badly, that falls on him too. If they weren't applying themselves then its because hes not getting his message across.
Fair enough; that seems a reasonable reply.Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Pietro
Though I would note (and maybe I shouldn't) that when you talk about bad PD teams, at least ye haven't shipped double figures this season, let alone twice!
Completely forgot about UCD last season. OK so we're at best the third worst LOI team in recent memory.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Yeah I'd say he did a decent job at Longford. Some good cup results and attractive football. But he didn't get us promoted or close to it really. The play offs would be a minimum target.
Attractive footbal is nice but he was never really in danger of getting Longford promoted. At least that was my impression from the outside. His predecessor and his successor both have better league records than him at the moment. Maybe if he'd stayed he'd have figured it out sooner or later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Longfordian
Cup runs are nice but they are depending on the draw and its not like he achieved much more than Tony Cousins in that respect in his last couple of years. Maybe I'm unfairly judging him because my experience of Longford was our games against you in the cups over those seasons.
Tony Cousins
2014 Beat Athlone, lost 3-0 away to Shamrock Rovers in the 3rd round.
2015 Beat Finn Harps after a replay, beat Cockhill Celtic, beat Sheriff, lose 2-0 away to Dundalk in Semi Final.
2016 Beat Waterford, lost 4-1 to Cork City at home in third round.
Neale Fenn
2017, beat Sligo AET, Bangor Celtic, lost 4-1 at home to Cork City in quarter final.
2018 beat Sligo, Shels, lost 7-0 to at home to Cork City in quarter final.
2019 beat Athlone, lost to Bohs on penalties in second round.
Daire Doyle
2020 lost to Cork City aet away in first round - probably the better team on the night and were unlucky not to take it to penalties.
For what its worth we got neither the attractive football nor the results with him.
I was actually only thinking of this earler, Dundalk 2012 were just dreadful, even after the first game that year, beaten 2-0 I think at home to Pats, I knew we were in trouble, weak all over the park, no leaders, no fight, nothing up front, and this is very close to Cork City this season. Only for Mons pulling out that summer, we would (and prob should) have been auto relegated in 2012, we were bad enough to warrant that. Lucky to make the play off, but saved the best performance for last, 2-0 win away to Waterford (4-2 on agg).Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Pietro
McCaffrey had gone by the play-off (by mid summer?), there was some improvement but the play-off win was unexpected really. Cork can still get off the foot of the table and win a play-off though the 1st Divisions sides are really scrapping this season.
I was agreeing with you in case that wasn't clear. Bit surprised if Daire Doyle has a better league record. I haven't been particularly impressed with him this season either from the admittedly little I have seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Pietro
Sorry if I misread your post. Looking back it does look like were on the same page. Im judging their league record based on position, crude a measure as that is. Doyle has Longford 3rd in his first season which matches the best finish in a season in which Fenn managed, and Doyle was partly responsible for that. Theres still time of course for that to change either for the positive or negative.Quote:
Originally Posted by Longfordian
It's a crazy season in the First Division. Wouldn't put too much stock in positions at the moment. We got annihilated by Galway last weekend.
I dont fancy us for playoffs imo. Conor kenna and anto breslin havent being replaced. Dylan Grimes who was playing well until recently has being injured. Dean Byrne whos one of our best players is only coming back from injury himself. I am not sure Doyle will do business yet but at least he has form for staying with us like he was with us in the first division! As for Fenn dont get me started!Quote:
Originally Posted by Longfordian
Fenn is finally getting the contempt he deserves! Albeit Longford fans have also born witness to his lack of integrity.
Cork were a disorganised shambles under Fenn, maybe the change will be enough to get them s few points and avoid the drop.
Will be interesting to see if they show a bit of fight tonight in dalymount
Cork were poor but should have beaten Finn Harps and that would have put a different look on the table. Its interesting to hear tha Cork are in such a strong financial position and you would wonder why their board are recommeding that the members accept an offer for the company of €1. This is the sort of money you would pay for a company with some potential but a fair amount of debt. Many the number of loan players brought in by Fenn reflects that. Fenn did a good job at Longford and got them playing football. He eventually ran out of players near the end of the season and missed the playoffs. daire Doyle could suffer the same problem this year. Lack of depth in his sqaud and injuries. Easy to kick a man when he is down but there are worse managers tha Neal Fenn.
Theress a difference between having no existential debt and being in a strong financial position. We don't have a wealthy backer so rely on the money the football team generates. After a season with no crowds, and likely at least one more to look forward to it will be very difficult for us to compete. But we shouldn't be in danger of bankruptcy unless there is information that has not yet been shared with the membership.Quote:
Originally Posted by MKMK
I like everyone else in the league would like to see Cork do well but it is obvious that they were in difficulty when they had to cash in the sell on clauses and thankfully they were able to do that. The reality for all clubs is that unless you have a serious backer or get into Europe every season you are going to be left behind and the league will become like the Premier league across the water made up of different tiers who can only realistically get so far. The proposed sale would suggest that Cork are struggling and hopefully if it is sold it will lead to an injection of cash that will allow the club to prosper and also establish a striong academy to help young players in the area acheive their potential. The problems at Cork are not about the manager but are deeper than that and to be fair that would also apply to most clubs in both divisions.
I read the agreement to be that Cork have to consider the offer, there is no obligation to accept it. This could be a nothing offer anyway i.e. If you sell we just leave you to your own devices.
He deserves a kicking whether he is down or up.Quote:
Originally Posted by MKMK
A skillful footballer who has displayed a complete lack of integrity
Thats football. How many people bioth players and managers have shown great loyalty and then been shown the door when it suiots.
Never saw the agreement but there is a recommendation from the board to accept a one euro offer. i suppose it will become apparent at the meeting if rejecting it will present problems going forward. The league need Cork and hopefully (though it may be faint) we can get to a point where clubs are financially stable.
Speaking of 1e offer has ever there being a precadent for doing this in the LOI in the past? At the top of my head I cant !Quote:
Originally Posted by MKMK
In this case Fenn did a great job of manipulation, being a cu*t, and going way over the top in disloyalty and treating people as fools nevermind some a general lacking in loyaty.Quote:
Originally Posted by MKMK
I would imagine thats the end of Fenn in the loi as a manager/coach. Who would touch him after this? He may have to do a Sean Connor and go cross border!Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
As Dundalk should have heeded the warnings on Connor, everyone should also have questioned Fenn's committment to anything but himself. Busted flush as a coach also is some satisfying karma. I hope he had the decency to walk from the Cork job rather than hang on for the sack and a payoff........
He did a decent job at Longford with limited resources. Think there is more to the Cork situation than meets the eye. Is he the worst manegr around? Not by a long way. Expectations placed on managers by clubs and fans are often not backed up by financial support. Some people have a bee in their bonnet about how he left Dundalk and Longford. Whilst he was at both clubs he didi his job well. Ask Chris Hughton and Stephen Kenny about loyalty.
Yup, absoluely! Doesnt matter if he was a prolific striker (he wasnt) when at Dundalk, his behaviour was shady and devious. Coaching career busted? Grand so!Quote:
Originally Posted by MKMK
I enjoyed watching Fenn at Dundalk, lovely style about him, bringing players into play, and good in 2 EL games that season (2010), then his infamous departure, and subsequent moves.
Then I got the impression there was just that touch of laziness about him, never seemed to be that willing to move on the touchline as a manager, almost like it didn't bother him too much.
Can't see where he will resurface next?
Not a chance he will be welcome back with ourselves.We are happy with Daire Doyle at least he shows loyalty.Quote:
Originally Posted by oriel
Signed for Cliftonville tonight.Quote:
Originally Posted by joey B
https://cliftonvillefc.net/2020/10/20/he-who-dairs/
Dane Massey to Rovers
Would be a good signing if they can get him in to have a natural fullback playing in that left wingback role. This would put Farrugia out of the team though no?Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
We have Sean Kavanagh and Lafferty as well, Massey wouldn't get anywhere near the team.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract
You forgot Gannon, Gartland and HobanQuote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
I was only starting the annual rumour about Massey :)
I dont see him going to Rovers tbh, Sean Kavanagh , Lafferty . Farrugia and a super kid in the academy who has been playing left back for the second team have us well covered.
Gannon maybe but is he going off a bit ,