With Lucid's split season approach it's possible. Have you not read all 40 pages of this thread?!! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by sadloserkid
Printable View
With Lucid's split season approach it's possible. Have you not read all 40 pages of this thread?!! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by sadloserkid
By the way, that split season approach wasn't Lucid's own idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buller
After his original proposal was unveiled to a tsunami of indifference and/or objections, including the problem of European places, "someone" (ahem) contacted him with the split season suggestion.
He then presented it as his own when relaunching "AIL 2.0", without attribution or acknowledgement.
Which is yet another demonstration of just what a bluffer he really is.
Were there? I don't recall a single one. Any links? Or should we take more notice of your opinion below?Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
What evidence do you have to support your statement?Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Seems to be a fair few nice tidy little grounds in the IL, but a lot of “plastic” pitches, which I’m really opposed to. The stadia down here by contrast are by and large very lacking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
I recall it being said a few months back. A quick google throws this up example (though behind a paywall):Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Parker
Exclusive: Northern Irish clubs to retain European spots as £10m All-Ireland League to adopt split-season format
Danske Bank Premiership clubs will be able to keep their four European slots and be permitted to play in a cross-border competition worth £10m per year under current models being discussed, Sunday Life Sport can reveal.
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/s...-40326312.html
There is no inherent contradiction between considering Lucid a bluffer, whose own proposal is going nowhere and considering that a credible proposal would likely be supported by the majority of IL clubs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Parker
From July last year:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Parker
"All 10 clubs in the Premier Division have written to the Football Association of Ireland to request that a proposal for an all-island league be submitted to Uefa for consideration.
It follows 10 of 12 Irish Premiership sides writing a similar letter to the Irish Football Association.
Dungannon Swifts and Cliftonville are the two clubs that did not sign the letter."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53484645
The IFA had dismissed the idea of an All-Ireland League out-of-hand - as far as I know, the 10 Irish League signatories sent the letter to the IFA expressing a curiosity and interest in how the proposals for an AIL would develop, and crucially, having some sort of say in the event of an AIL being formed.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
I don't think that letter should be taken as tacit support of an All-Ireland League among Irish League clubs. I can only speak for my club (Glenavon), but the tide of opinion among the club and supporters generally seems to be against the idea of an AIL.
There is no doubt that the IFA is opposed to an AIL.Quote:
Originally Posted by MU1889
And it may be that the fans are generally opposed, too. (I'm not in any position to judge).
But there is ample evidence that with the notable exception of Cliftonville, the leading IL clubs are more than just "curious".
I'd say that if someone could come up with a credible, properly funded proposal which did not also threaten IL and IFA autonomy etc, then they would be very interested.
After all, they were enthusiastic enough about the Setanta Cup in the early days, before the money dwindled.
And of course they'd demand a say in the formation of any league.
UNITE Union cup fixtures called off.
Quote:
in light of the current Covid-19 situation on both sides of the border, Unite The Union has asked the FAI and the IFA to postpone the competition until 2022. Both associations have agreed to the request.
Both associations and Shamrock Rovers have agreed to the request ;)
I think a more expansive All-Ireland Cup competition, with proper funding and sponsors, would be more likely to garner wide support than an AIL. My ideal format would be a 32-team straight knockout competition, featuring the 12 NIFL Premiership clubs and the 20 teams that currently make up the LOI Premier + First Division.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
To keep initial travel costs low, the first round could be regionalised between the 16 most northerly and 16 most southerly teams. These matches could be played midweek, with the subsequent rounds being played on a Saturday or Sunday.
Every side gets a baseline sum of money per round, plus expenses for the away side, calculated on basis of distance (so the mythical Coleraine vs Cork fixture wouldn't be a problem). Prize money in the latter rounds would be substantial but realistic - maybe similar to what the early Setanta Cup had.
The one thing that would need ironed out (and probably never was during the Setanta days) would be where the competition fits in each of the league's respective seasons - ideally the cup wouldn't clash with the Irish Cup and FAI Cup, which leaves a very small window in which it could be played.
That's me done being Kieran Lucid for the day, but I think a scenario like the above would appeal to supporters North and South, as well as maintaining autonomy for the leagues and associations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Several clubs just asked to be kept in the loop. Just because something is the paper doesn't make it true. Even if their was a credible proposal, imo, you would struggle to get a majority.
Ample evidence? Let's see it. There were 3 clubs that showed a strong interest. Even then at least 1 of them would need plenty of convincing.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Covid is only a poor convenient excuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by ToberonaTornado
100% agreed , the organisation was shocking for this with absolutely no consultation. Ourselves and Rovers have no players available for the dates the games were supposed to be played.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Parker
LOL. For evidence I think we'll go by we'll go with research done by actual reporters rather than your opinion. And in fairness, EG said "seemingly interested" too, not "struggled to get a majority" in a final vote, so you've shifted the goalposts too there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Parker
Well if you want to go with titbits and spin gleaned by the odd reporter as opposed to the opinion of someone who was on the inside of process, then that's entirely up to you. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Buller
As someone on the inside of the process, are Irish League clubs now less likely to support an AIL due to the inevitability of Derry Citys’s 38IAR?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Parker
I can't really see a cross border competition working well as long as the 2 leagues are on different seasons.
I read before that a switch to summer football is on the cards up north. If/When that happens I think the natural next step would be to get rid of the league cup and bring in an All Ireland Cup competition.
Would be a straight forward way of getting regular competitive games between clubs north and south without all the red tape and politics of an all Ireland league.
https://www.theguardian.com/football...droidApp_Other
An article today on a proposed Baltic League, which looks very familiar to the most recent All-Island league proposals with the domestic leagues splitting mid season.
I don't know how having an all Ireland league would be dramatically better than the present as the Irish League is in a worse situation than LOI.Quote:
Originally Posted by holidaysong
In what ways? Genuinely interested and to prevent Ealing Green spontaneouly combusting!Quote:
Originally Posted by timothydec77
Very true.Quote:
Originally Posted by timothydec77
I mean, what could the likes of Linfield, Glentoran, Cliftonville or Larne add that isn't already right there in front of your eyes in Kerry, Mayo, CK or Meath? :D
How are their GAA teams going at the moment ? !Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
I'm not sure why we continually stick in EG's craw, but if we can maintain a seasonal average in the 600-800 region, and incrementally progress the points tally on a yearly basis, that should suffice to maintain Kerry as a stable concern. On the broader issue, the first question would have to be whether the IFA would consider a switch to calendar-year soccer, as a precursor to any debate over cross-border formats.
All those clubs in the North you have mentioned have long and fine records.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
My point was to draw attention to the fact that an All Ireland wouldn't be the utopia that some assume it would be.
Many in Northern Ireland would be more interested in looking to Scotland for areas of future cooperation.
Ok, excise Kerry from my observation and replace them with... .... Irish Sea FC?Quote:
Originally Posted by culloty82
To be serious, I have no opinion for or against Kerry FC, they're an interesting experiment and good luck to them. It's just that even assuming they make a go of it as you suggest - and I did refer to them previously as an outlier - I find the idea of the LOI expanding to a pyramid via a County/Youth League model an almost bizarre idea.
Ah right, got your drift.Quote:
Originally Posted by timothydec77
But I would qualify your comment by saying that an all-Ireland league could in principle be capable of developing club football in Ireland, North and South, if a workable model could be devised.
But it's just that I think that the obstacles to agreeing such a model in practical terms, are so numerous and so high as to be insurmountable, at least for the foreseeable future.
Not seen any evidence of that myself, but even if there somehow was, I think you'd find zero appetite for that in Scotland itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by timothydec77
Ahh now, even you know that's silly EG.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
You can't compare Tier 2 and even non-existing poitential Tier 3 clubs with the top sides in the IL PD.
Take a look at the opening night attendances for the LOI versus for the IL last August for a better idea of how each league is doing. And that's with capacity restrictions at pretty much every LOI PD ground, and not in the IL.
Kerry FC are a football team, not an "interesting experiment". All you need to watch them is a match ticket, not a lab coat and goggles.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
All football clubs have to begin life at some point in time. Sneering at those who have done so more recetly is not a good look.
You've missed my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
On the basis that the rationale behind combining the two leagues would be to expand and develop club football throughout the island, then the best of the IL would surely add far more to the mix than could be derived from the proposed new 3rd Tier, or even the 10 club LOI FD.
I mean, in the absence of a genuine pyramid, where else* could the LOI go in exploiting the country's untapped potential?
* - If we disregard the practical considerations which would prevent an AIL from getting of the ground, that is.
I'm not denying that the LOI is making impressive advances in many regards.Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
But my point is that this is all pretty much confined to the same 12 or 14 clubs, with little or no prospect of that select group being expanded, even despite the country itself, which has a clear appetite for football, growing in terms of population and disposable wealth etc all the time.
Did you miss my "Good luck to them" comment? Or did it suit you to overlook it in your customary attempt to pick holes in everything I ever post?Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
Anyhow, I'm not sneering at Kerry FC, rather it's that even if they succeed in becoming established etc, I remain sceptical of the notion that the County/Youth/Reserves model offers any reaL prospect of making up a genuine third tier of a pyramid which in turn could properly exploit the untapped potential for club football in ROI which I alluded to above.
Do you guys play with circular pitches and triangles for goals up there?Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Also, welcome back!
I'm convinced if I said All-Ireland League 3 times at a mirror, Ealing Green would appear behind me. :p
Comments have been used in the past here like 'the failed Dublin City experiment' Kildare County, Galway 'United', Wexford Youth. It wasnt said with derision. If others are watching Kerry and waiting to see how they fare eg Meath, Monaghan/Cavan well they are a type of experiment though started with every intention of succeeding rather than trial and error. I sway toward Ealing Greens opinion on the development of the game in and under LoI. I am skeptical of the county model, for example, while agreeing that Kerry are a success so far, I hope not but they could yet fail as any club could tbh. I differ in opinion on how the game here should be developed but having that difference of opinion is not derision of efforts made. Is to question something sneering EYG? I know the art of debate is endangered, that much of society has moved to if you are not with me you are against me, but Id expect the long term members here would be more immune to the stifling of differences in opinion?!Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
Oh, absolutely, wasn't having a go at EalingGreen at all, he always makes valuable points, just stating that any new clubs will be content to grow extremely gradually, having watched Fingal previously, which will hopefully make them more sustainable.
Out of respect for difference plese please use Soccer as the term of choice in Kerry and the wider game in southern parts.Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
Out of respct for difference please please use football as the term of choice in Derry and the wider game in northern parts.Quote:
Originally Posted by culloty82
Cant even get even get a common name for the sport never mind seasons or developing pyramid systems....how about soccerball so there is fully agreed mutually disliked compromise across the board - like Irelands Call!
The AIL wont happen until there is a united Ireland IMO (and lets not go down that rabbit hole).
Seriously paranoid 'Why always me?' persecution vibes here Ealing Green :embarrassed:Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
I honestly couldn't tell you the last time I even responded to anything you wrote here. It must have been very many months ago.
And as other people alluded to in their posts, you do have a history of taking little shots at Kerry FC for daring to be a new club. Shame on thenn for not being around when the Vikings were here.
Ealing Green would be the first to have a history of taking little shots at club or repeating a points made previously would he now EatYerGreens!
Kerry are the poster boys for this model of clubs stepping up to senior football so its understandable when they are often used in arguments for an against proposals, Kildare, Dublin City are regularly referred to also among others. If the example fits it gets used.
As I have mentioned before, now a few times, I think the Kerry model is too much a broad appeasing of junior club officials in an an area than it is trying to have a wider fanbase. The same will be said about Meath and we have the often used example of how things hapened in Galway football and the ultimately ridiculous situation that panned out of having 3 United clubs in a small city after people basically fell out or had different targets in mind. Not every county model will fail but even in the established GAA setup there are rumbles of counties merging to manufacture competativeness. A pyrmid system is needed and can be implemented by simply havig the FAI join the dots in a like it or lump it manner and access to the highest level of the game is on merit. Imo and again in repeating my opinion, it is the organic growth that comes with longer term merit bsed progress that adds proper sustainability to a club, imo more than parachuting sides in to leagues, possible as a vanity project of indibidual(s) or as some misguided attempt to make money via LoI access to the spoils of European competition and often missing that it takes time and resources to qualify for Europe ahead of a whole bunch of other clubs.
Long term growth potential of football on this island in terms of finance and improved European ranking is undoubtedly under an All Island collaberation between the 2 leagues. But there are no short cuts to this. Both leagues have to have the house in order and that cant be said from a LoI or FAI perspective- infrastructure, administration, oversight, funding etc all need to progress, uniting the game in RoI needs to come before uniting the island's game. Fast tracking franchise type clubs, creating desired structures, is not necessarily creating stability, the necessary stability that I feel is needed. Again, imo there are too many egoes, tiny fish in a growing pond that are terrified of losing their little fiefdom that are being accomodated, a small cohort of short sighted officials that cause disorportionate grief due to the fact that they are tolerated at all. Get everyone on the same hymn sheet, with the carrot and the stick and then look at where the possibilities are. I wont or cant comment on the IL or IFA in relation to their differing issues.
Kerry may seem to be working, but it will be fun to watch Athboy, play in Navan with a Navan club, try to get Trim and Dunshaughlin on board as Meath United and nobody thinking that Bernard O'Byrne as an official of possibly the smallest club involved, will irk officials of other clubs with his man in charge perssona. That Meath FC couldnt end up as Athboy Celtic rebranded, playing in Navan, and other scorned clubs in Meath then going at it themselves. It is as likely to happen as Wexford Youths making it work somehow. With respect to Kerry and Youths, I think there is too much cart before the horse stuff for a quick fix. I understand why its happening, I dont like knocking ambition and maybe Im being overly influenced by past fails but the damage if these clubs go bust or walk away is greater than having done nothing to change the status quo. Its needs to be done properly, incrementally, and sustainably - not on a hope for the best basis!
I don't think it's fair to burden Kerry with the hopes and expectations of senior football in other counties.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
Let Kerry be Kerry, and leave other counties to worry about themselves.
David Beckham has started calling it Soccer due to his soccer interests in America.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99