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Yes, I'm familiar with Co Adriaanse's CV. He has spent the last 10 years jumping between mid-east clubs to set himself up for his retirement. Now he has retired, but international football might be the gig he is looking for. And the FAI can afford him.
I've noticed a few articles lately saying that the next manager should attend underage games more often, and a caller mentioned it on Today FM earlier. Not sure why this is only coming up now, and why people are suddenly so insistent on it. As I posted elsewhere, Trapattoni did give out a large number of new caps, and promoted players from the U21's regularly, so I'm wondering why it's suddenly become an issue after he's left?
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Originally Posted by geysir
Ha what! Moaning, thanks.:D
At least I dont have my head in the sand. Remember it was 1/3 tournaments good or bad for 8 million? Value for money? I dont think so.
Some people would celebrate any old rubbish (ole ole)
Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
Yes, that really really sounds like the basis for an appointment. :rolleyes:
Stan returning would make more sense.
You're the voice of reason on here. Brine3 has some good points also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
And glad you mentioned Brady, who was one of the players in my original creative players that Trap had no time for argument.
Well Benno, you never do tire of repeating that rancid juvenile sarcasm.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
Could we have got better than Trap? possibly yes and possibly we could have got worse, like your hero Beenhakker :)
At least we didn't have to cheer the rubbish Leo served up for the people of Poland, regardless of what he cost.
The Beenhakker Slump, a synonym of a dive to the bottom of European international football.
We don't have the players of Uruguay, Denmark and Croatia at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
If we'd tried to play like Spain with the players we had at our disposal, we probably wouldn't have qualified for Euro 2012. Maybe it would have made you happy, but I prefer to have been there at the top table, even if ultimately, we were one of the worse teams who were good enough to qualify.Quote:
There's no point in playing hoofball if the most it leads to is a first round exit. We may as well give it a proper lash as far as playing football is concerned.
I'm not deriding tippy-tappy football, it's very good when done right. We just don't have the players to play it like Spain can. And there's nothing wrong with ballet, just you shouldn't expect to get the same experience out of football.Quote:
There is something seriously wrong with Irish football culture if passing the ball is derided as "tippy tappy" and compared unfavourably to ballet (what's wrong with ballet, by the way?).
How many players from 2002 are still playing for Ireland? 2? Maybe if we had Holland, Kinsella, Duff, Kilbane, McAteer, Keane and Kelly in their prime, we would be able to play a more passing game.Quote:
That attitude is something that needs to be addressed at all levels. We can play football. We outdid Germany and Spain for possession at the 2002 World Cup. Trap has told us that we are no good and that we have no choice but to play hoofball and certain people are lapping it up.
That said, I think Trap should have played a more attractive style of play because it would have been more effective with the players we have now. You, on the other hand, seem to think that tiki-taka is the solution to any footballing problem, even if you have a team of technically-limited giants at your disposal. If nothing else because you think it's pretty, and you feel entitled to have the national side play in a style you personally enjoy.
So you agree with me that we should play passing football because our players would be more effective to play like that, but because you don't want to be seen to agree with me, you make up a straw man about me being a tiki-taka aficionado. I don't like Barca's tiki-taka, it bores the life out of me... and it's not entirely effective either, they need some proper centre-backs in that team. God knows why they didn't buy Kompany and Vertonghen before Man City and Spurs snapped them up.Quote:
That said, I think Trap should have played a more attractive style of play because it would have been more effective with the players we have now. You, on the other hand, seem to think that tiki-taka is the solution to any footballing problem, even if you have a team of technically-limited giants at your disposal. If nothing else because you think it's pretty, and you feel entitled to have the national side play in a style you personally enjoy.
Passing the ball (I'm not referring to tiki-taka) is the most effective way to play football, you cold say the sport was designed to be played that way. Even the likes of New Zealand and Trinidad and Tobago managed to acquit themselves quite well playing a passing game at the World Cup, and they have players that are far, far inferior to ours.
Hoofball is the enemy of football. It's the quickest way to lose possession and put yourself straight back under pressure again. No international team ever won a major tournament playing it, and there's a reason for that. It doesn't work. Even Greece 2004 knew the basics of possession football - they didn't need to resort to hoofball. They were negative, defensive and disciplined, but they weren't hoofing it. Same with the great defensive Italian teams, I have a lot of time for them too.
Would you say Jack Charlton's teams played 'hoofball'?
And incidentally which international side currently plays your 'ideal' football...
He got 1/2 for Poland, first time they got to a Euros, also got Tnt to a world cup. Granted he might not be doing a whole lot at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Why then are you not sticking up for Trap to continue? At least I have not changed my position from day one, but you have, funny that!
yes, he did but he often chose strange players and at strange times, so mere numbers don't present the full picture. I'm sure there was a line of communication between King and Trap, but it's simply a part of the senior manager's responsibility to be aware of all the available talent and also to inspire and encourage the underage managers.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
When the facts change I change my mind. What do you do sir?Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
That quote is often attributable to John Maynard Keynes, though some say it was Churchill.
The reality is that Trap's methods were effective at first but when it became obvious the methods were not working then it was time to reassess. I supported Trap in campaign 1, tended to think on balance he was doing well in campaign 2, despite serious concerns, and then thought he was awful in campaign 3. I suspect Geysir and many others were similar.
Yes, Charlton's teams were under instruction to hoof the ball up the pitch. It's possible we may have done slightly better had we been a bit more constructive.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
I don't have an "ideal" type of football. You can play passing football in a number of different formations with a number of different styles (defensive, attacking, etc.). It depends on the players and opposition.
Hmm, so the real answer is, you "don't know". Which is what I suspected all along...
Yes, credit to Trap for cleaning up Stan's mess in the 2010 qualifiers. In the 2012 qualifiers the team player poorer than the 2010 qualifiers, but scraped through nonetheless. It was clear we were going to be destroyed in Poland unless we sorted out a few issues that Trap ignored. He continued to ignore them in Poland and right up to last week in Austria. He's a one trick trap a pony, and his one trick was found out long ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Stop being abrasive. I said it depends on the opposition. If you are playing the Faroe Islands you might play a more attacking passing football, if you are playing a top team then you might play a more defensive form of possession football, e.g. like Greece did in 2004.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
But if you want to lose possession as quickly as possible and put your own team under pressure as quickly as possible, then hoofing it up the pitch is the way to go.
It's not abrasive. You're bleating on about our 'style' and have come up with the name of one washed-up Dutch coach who seems virtually retired and hardly any more 'in touch' than Trap...
Need to be realistic, not a whole lot of idealistic nonsense, which is what this sounds like. Sorry!
You have nothing to contribute yourself except to have a go at me all the time.
No, am just pointing out the flaws in your 'argument'.
That's all.
Isn't that the whole point of a MB?
But sure its handy to say that, but the facts are his system hasnt changed throughout all these campaigns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
So when he was doing "well" he was great, not so great when not qualifying. I get ya,lol
Read what I write, not what it suits you to think I write.
Unfortunately you're the one who won't change. Your tone is pathetic. You're a troll of the worst kind and the sly PMs like the one I just received probably hint at a mental health issue.
Stroppy again, and what messages, ha! they are not messages but neg reps - you are more than welcome to give me as many as you wantQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Saw Alex Mcleish at West Brom game this weekend, hypothetically would we ever take to an ex Rangers manager? Are we big enough, secure enough and mature enough as a nation?
Don't have a problem but his style is not exactly universally popular. Ask Villa fans...
Morten Olsen fills such a role for Denmark, as well as being international manager he also reshaped the entire football coaching structure in Denmark. It's beginning to pay dividends now with some great young Danish players coming through.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Morten Olsen is on 390,000 euros a year.
The DBU are a mature organisation however. The FAI are childish and would never hand over so much power to a qualified professional.
No, I agree with you on quite a lot of things, just not that the primary point of football is to look nice. We'd be more effective with the players if we played a slightly more adventurous style of play, and attampted to keep the ball more. I want to see it happen because I think it would help Ireland win games. If, on the other hand, our only available central midfielders were Glenn Whelan and Paul Green, and our forwards were Gary Doherty and Jon Walters, the most effective tactic would be to have the midfielders sit deep, contain the opposition, break up the wings and try and win set pieces. Ugly, but effective with what we had at our disposal. At the moment, the best tactic would lie somewhere in between, for me:Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
Westwood
Sledge...Dunne...O'Shea...Wilson
McGeady...Gibson...McCarthy...Coleman
Keane
Walters
So still a derivative of 4-4-2, still relying on wingers for creativity, and the one major change is that Robbie Keane drops back and gives an extra option to midfield with Walters staying up front as a target man.
Not always, it depends on the players you have. If your players aren't able to string three passes together without losing the ball, you might as well launch it forwards towards a target man hoping for a flick-on, or play a through-ball to a speedy winger, because that at least gives you a chance of creating something, rather than lose the ball in the centre of the park.Quote:
Passing the ball (I'm not referring to tiki-taka) is the most effective way to play football, you cold say the sport was designed to be played that way. Even the likes of New Zealand and Trinidad and Tobago managed to acquit themselves quite well playing a passing game at the World Cup, and they have players that are far, far inferior to ours.
New Zealand played very defensive stuff at the last world cup, especially parking the bus against Italy: http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/archive...82/report.html
They scored with their only shot on target, whereas Italy had 23 attempts on goal.
North Korea, on the other hand, had a go, and look where it got them.
It's not as simple as passing=good, hoofball=bad.
That's because tournament-winning teams have the personnel to play more technically challenging but effective styles of football. Even that Greece side relied on set pieces and attacking down the wings to relieve pressure. They were completely dominated in terms of possession all tournament. So pretty much like us until the later stages of this campaign when Trap's reign started to go off the rails a little.Quote:
Hoofball is the enemy of football. It's the quickest way to lose possession and put yourself straight back under pressure again. No international team ever won a major tournament playing it, and there's a reason for that. It doesn't work. Even Greece 2004 knew the basics of possession football - they didn't need to resort to hoofball. They were negative, defensive and disciplined, but they weren't hoofing it. Same with the great defensive Italian teams, I have a lot of time for them too.
There is very little change here compared to what Trap has done. Robbie Keane has shown that he is incapable at dropping back into midfield. He is the Irish Pippo Inzaghi. He's a goal hanger... and a very good one, but he's no midfielder.Quote:
Originally Posted by peadar1987
There is very little change here compared to what Trap has done. Robbie Keane has shown that he is incapable at dropping back into midfield. He is the Irish Pippo Inzaghi. He's a goal hanger. A very good one, but he's no midfielder.Quote:
Originally Posted by peadar1987
Also don't understand why anyone would pick Sledge at right back and put Coleman in left-midfield. Sledge is a stop gap centreback for Ireland if anything at all.
If Robbie gets a goal a game, or even every other game, he's worth keeping.
We don't have any strikers when he retires...
I know, that's because Trap is not the antichrist, and the system doesn't need tearing down and rebuilding as much as just some intelligent evolution.Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
The problem for the last three years is that we are overrun in midfield with 4-4-2 with two holding midfielders. So, somebody posts a solution that involves us playing 4-4-2 with two holding midfielders. Madness.
And Coleman is one of the best right-backs in the Premier League. So why don't we play him at right back and not left-midfield?
I wholeheartedly agree with this. I think it was you and I who pointed this out after the Russia game. What I couldn't fathom is why he wouldn't change or address this. Perhaps its as simple as an old dog and new tricks.Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
Which Russia game? It was quite clear after the one in Dublin, where 3-2 totally flattered us. And clear as day after the one in Moscow.
The Beenhakker slump after taking Poland to the Euros, he came away with one draw there, then dived to the bottom of the next WC qual group, one of the most woeful slumps of any team in Europe and now he's redundant re being a manager in football.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
But continue to idiotically wave your Leo flag Benno, continue the history revision and just wipe that 2 year Beenhakker slump out of history and then look for praise because you haven't changed your mind on Bennhakker from day one. :D
If there's going to be a new manager for next month's games then a deal would really need to be in the gestation period now.... wonder if there's business being done as we tuck into Sunday lunch???
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Originally Posted by geysir
Geysir, you brought his name up:rolleyes: (I might have mentioned him, among with other managers, about 5/6 years ago, but its great that you crawled back on my old posts). I guess he isnt working now as he is quite old.
We cant say how he would have done for Ireland because that never happened. Unlike Trap which happened.
So anymore 5/6 year old posts you care to bring up! That's desperate!
that's true, and I agree with you on every point there, but I was wondering why this has only become an issue in the public domain now, after Trapattoni has left the setup, i.e. why was it never mentioned in the last 12 months?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
This thread is going well.
May we thank our relative 'gods', we're not doing the choosing...
Jesus 42 pages as well, that was quick. How many pages did the pre trap one get?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Probably because everyone took it as a given that Trap wouldn't be keeping a close eye on the underage teams!Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979