Where might new clubs come from?

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15/08/2021, 12:29 PM
Kingdom

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinnie

The only thing with Cabo under age is they have so many teams, everybody gets a game. I used to referee in DDSL and a couple of times up there they played kids with very obvious disabilities, one kid had cerebral palsy and wasn't great on his feet but they still played him, they are a very inclusive club at Underage and at the lower levels it's about giving kids a game not about results

Only coming to this late in the day, but I can concur 100% with this. I was involved with a South dublin side a few years ago, and while Cabinteely were not in the SDFL, we developed a good rapport with two of their teams with friendlies and a couple of tournaments. We were a club whose players are football players in Primary school and rugby players in secondary school, and could have some really distorted sides thrown together from one week to the next. One particular friendly we played their team below the LoI level, and beat them somewhat surprisingly. Played them a few weeks later and had to field essentially half our third team, which would have been the weakest division in Dublin, and likely the country, and they were very very decent about it, and essentially sent out their weakest team to complement our situation, no questions asked.
The ethos at the club is exactly what a football club should be, and it's one of the reasons I hope they succeed at LoI level. Nothing but the greatest respect for that club.
15/08/2021, 5:20 PM
GUFCghost

https://www.extratime.com/articles/2...der-23-league/

Is there an appetite to bring back the A-Championship?
15/08/2021, 6:56 PM
Neish

Quote:

Originally Posted by GUFCghost

https://www.extratime.com/articles/2...der-23-league/

Is there an appetite to bring back the A-Championship?

Really need something like the A-Championship, U-23 with 2 or 3 over 23's allowed in a match day squad. It can be a big jump from u19 level to senior and at present there is nothing to bridge the gap, think they should of set this up before the U15's and U13's tbh
15/08/2021, 7:50 PM
pineapple stu

15s and 13s were mandated by UEFA.

A B team in the LSL or equivalent should be fine. Although our basket case of a pyramid isn't conducive to it in some areas (Ulster being an obvious example)
15/08/2021, 7:54 PM
sbgawa

reserve teams playing in the lower divisons (first division) like other European countries.
No point in trying to reinvent the wheel
15/08/2021, 8:07 PM
pineapple stu

Yup. And like we had here for 45 years until the LoI B Division was formed.
15/08/2021, 8:30 PM
legendz

Quote:

Originally Posted by GUFCghost

https://www.extratime.com/articles/2...der-23-league/

Is there an appetite to bring back the A-Championship?

How many teams are required to form a league? At least 8?
The A Championship partly failed because Premier Division clubs were required to field an A team. Some did so grudgingly.
With the youth leagues in place, the final peace of the structure is a league between youth and senior. Shamrock Rovers, UCD and Cork City are the only standout clubs that are interested.
15/08/2021, 8:39 PM
pineapple stu

I don't think UCD would be particularly interested in a 23s league in fairness.
15/08/2021, 8:51 PM
nigel-harps1954

Quote:

Originally Posted by legendz

How many teams are required to form a league? At least 8?
The A Championship partly failed because Premier Division clubs were required to field an A team. Some did so grudgingly.
With the youth leagues in place, the final peace of the structure is a league between youth and senior. Shamrock Rovers, UCD and Cork City are the only standout clubs that are interested.

I think you'll find Finn Harps were very keen to keep the A Championship and one of the clubs that entered a team willingly into it, despite being in the First Division at the time..
15/08/2021, 8:54 PM
kksaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I don't think UCD would be particularly interested in a 23s league in fairness.

Where do UCD get their players for the underage leagues out of curiosity?
15/08/2021, 8:57 PM
pineapple stu

Link up is with Mount Merrion; the 13s/15s is basically the MM team.

17s then is a mix and 19s is more a UCD team. Players get scouted from underage leagues and apply for scholarships too of course
15/08/2021, 9:08 PM
Bucket

Are all the players from 19's and seniors on scholarships of some sort?
15/08/2021, 9:11 PM
legendz

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I don't think UCD would be particularly interested in a 23s league in fairness.

I thought UCD were proactive members of the A Championship from the First Division when they were not required to do so??

Quote:

Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

I think you'll find Finn Harps were very keen to keep the A Championship and one of the clubs that entered a team willingly into it, despite being in the First Division at the time..

I haven't forgotten Finn Harps and Limerick being proactive members.
I thought the the A Championship should have been retained but without the requirement on Premier Division clubs to be involved.
If at least 8 clubs between LoI B teams and non-LoI entities could form an intermediary league, that's my blueprint for the way forward;
Shamrock Rovers B
Cork City B
Finn Harps B
Treaty United B
Kerry
Carlow-Kilkenny*
Cavan-Monaghan*
Kildare*

* = currently only at U17 level, so probably a few years away from possible interest in an intermediary league offering a pathway to the First Division.
15/08/2021, 9:39 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucket

Are all the players from 19's and seniors on scholarships of some sort?

19s wouldn't be. Many wouldn't even be in college yet. So for example Jamie McGrath played for our 19s but then didn't get the points for UCD; went to Maynooth instead and joined Pat's, who I think had a linkup with Maynooth

Most of the senior squad would be in scholarship and since I think 2017 it's been pretty much entirely a student team
15/08/2021, 9:43 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by legendz

I thought UCD were proactive members of the A Championship from the First Division when they were not required to do so??

Yes when it was a reserve division.

What's the point for us in a 23s league when we already have a 19s team? Our senior team is all under 23

The A Championship is a terrible idea anyway. Just create a proper pyramid and let B teams in at whatever level - third tier I guess. Solves lots of problems. The A Championship just adds another level onto the stupid-league-structure issue we already have. As Tralee Dynamoes will probably confirm
15/08/2021, 10:05 PM
Briuk

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbgawa

reserve teams playing in the lower divisons (first division) like other European countries.
No point in trying to reinvent the wheel

Totally agree, 3d tier regionalized and whoever wants can play a reserve squad in that tier...
15/08/2021, 10:26 PM
Bucket

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

19s wouldn't be. Many wouldn't even be in college yet. So for example Jamie McGrath played for our 19s but then didn't get the points for UCD; went to Maynooth instead and joined Pat's, who I think had a linkup with Maynooth

Most of the senior squad would be in scholarship and since I think 2017 it's been pretty much entirely a student team

That's a lot of scholarships to be handing out. I never would have put UCD down as having the fourth biggest budget in the LOI!
16/08/2021, 8:33 AM
legendz

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Yes when it was a reserve division.

What's the point for us in a 23s league when we already have a 19s team? Our senior team is all under 23

The A Championship is a terrible idea anyway. Just create a proper pyramid and let B teams in at whatever level - third tier I guess. Solves lots of problems. The A Championship just adds another level onto the stupid-league-structure issue we already have. As Tralee Dynamoes will probably confirm

I'm in favour of a reserve league, B league, A Championship, whatever name they want to put on it!
The pyramid is not the solution. You could have a repeat of the Galway situation of too many clubs in one area. Let's learn the lessons of history and not repeat.
The Youth Leagues have the right approach of allowing non-LoI entities from non-LoI areas only, bar one exception due to successful lobbying on their behalf.
The Reserve League should be the next step after u19s but completely optional. Allow non-LoI entities. The best non-LoI entity should be allowed to take on the last team from the First Division in a promotion/relegation playoff, and naturally only prompted if they win and meet the First Division licence fudgy criteria!
16/08/2021, 9:16 AM
pineapple stu

You're right that we should learn the lessons of history and not repeat them. And the Galway situation arose because there was no pyramid and anyone who was interested got let in.

Every country in Europe has a pyramid except us. Ruud Dokter has been in favour of a pyramid since day one. It flushes out deadwood and brings in new blood. If they're not any good, they get relegated again.

Ask Tralee Dynamos if the A Championship is the way forward.
16/08/2021, 10:02 AM
legendz

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

You're right that we should learn the lessons of history and not repeat them. And the Galway situation arose because there was no pyramid and anyone who was interested got let in.

Every country in Europe has a pyramid except us. Ruud Dokter has been in favour of a pyramid since day one. It flushes out deadwood and brings in new blood. If they're not any good, they get relegated again.

Ask Tralee Dynamos if the A Championship is the way forward.

Ruud Dokter also said you have to find a solution that suits the individuality of each country. An intermediary league is an Irish solution for an Irish problem.
Kerry, Cavan-Monaghan, Carlow-Kilkenny and Kilkenny are in the Youth Leagues. Access to the Youth Leagues has not been a free for all. Apply the same criteria to an intermediary league and get on with the game.

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