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https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soc...o-lee-carsley/
This was an article from couple days ago by Kilbane. Clear sign that Carsley wants it and just details being negotiated at this stage. I've thought it was going to be Carsley for some time but in the last few days there have been multiple sources reporting similar things that it's getting down to the wire.
I'd be a little wary of presenting Carsley as the guy to helm a "long-term project". Not because it isn't true, because there is some rebuilding work to be done, but whoever is in charge next needs to actually show progress relatively quickly. I don't necessarily mean tournament qualification, though that shouldn't be treated as some impossible dream in the short-term, but increased competitiveness for sure, being in that conversation. We've just finished a long-term project manager and it was a disaster. We can't start off with the next one with a similar situation whereby regression and successive lowpoints are dismissed for far too long as a consequence of the project, unimportant in the face of it.
I would be interested in hearing what it is people would expect from the next manager over the next few cycles. I'd be expecting us to have a credible effort at 2026 qualification, and getting to EURO 2028 (especially since we have additional advantages there).
The reality is that Ghana is not a good team - they have Kudus who is going to be a star, but after that they have a bunch of very ordinary players. Even getting Ghana qualified for AFCON should not be underestimated - but I do agree that they blew it completely once they got there.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
Where Hughton ends up next is anyone's guess - indeed whether he is interested in another job at his age is an open question (I do think he would like the Ireland job - but that might be the only one at this stage - although my contact did say that he missed the day-to-day interaction with players while working with Ghana).
I do think Carsley is worth a punt - he has a growing reputation as a coach and getting him as Ireland manager at this stage is a bit of a coup. Assuming he gets the job - whether he works out - only time will tell.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
I will say that I would expect some immediate improvement - Kenny was that bad that pretty much any competent coach would show an improvement.
In fairness Kilbane does say that Carsley is a mix of old school pragmatism too so yes there is a long term project but results do have to improve, especially against lesser and similar opponents to ourselvesQuote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
The Lennon-Beatles posts cracking, had me laughing out loud, fair play.
For me, Success in the next campaign would be "double qualification" for the playoffs. By that I mean coming second in the main qualification group but also finishing high enough in the Nations League that we would have qualified that way anyway. With twenty-eight teams either qualifying directly or going to the playoffs, this is a an achievable goal, in my opinion. We have a better squad that's still improving and hopefully we will have a capable manager who will get the best out of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
We would need to win our Nations League group to make the playoffs from that route. Obviously we don't know the group yet, but that would be a big ask. Given that there will be 12 qualification groups next time, meaning the better teams will be more widely spread out, top 2 in the qualification groups is probably a more realistic route.
So I'd say looking for "double qualification" is asking a bit much, but targeting the playoffs one way or the other is realistic. That said, as long as we can see clear progress in the coming campaign (i.e. a tangible improvement in performances and results, not meaningless stuff like possession and pass completion stats), then that will be something in itself.
It's a great job for someone to come in to because the bar has been set so low. But that does make me wary that a bad manager could get a pass for a long time though achievements that actually don't amount to a lot when you step back from them (this is basically how Neil Lennon has built a management career to this point). Once we see the various groups we're drawn into we'll have a better idea of what constitutes relative success in the next cycle.
Playing Devils advocate here but what are the pros and cons of Lennon getting the gig?
Pros = generally competent and experienced. Was probably a very good manager 10-13 years ago
Cons = supervised a real decline in Celtic's standards after Rodgers left. Even when they won the league they were flat and relying on very late goals. Got outwitted by a Gerrard/Beale combo in his last season which was beyond awful. Gets very pr1ckly when the chips are down.
Overall I see no sign that he's a coach with a vision and an ability to inspire and invigorate a young squad splattered with talent and potential but no real leaders.
There is very serious social issues as wellQuote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
We can't have someone who threatened to slit his mistresses throat as our manager.
Great answer. Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Wow. Never heard that one beforeQuote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
Hughton's contract was up when Ghana's participation in AFCON ended - but Hughton leaving at this point was always the expectation. The only likelihood of him staying as Ghana manager was if they got deep into the knockout stages - and even they Hughton would have ultimately decided if he wanted to continue there.Quote:
Originally Posted by JR89
Ghana have had six different managers in the last seven years with Appiah the only one lasing longer than a year - and one of the biggest difficulties between the Ghanaian FA and the managers appointed has been the insistence that the national managers also play a prominent role in managing a team of locally based players. Think of it in terms the new Ireland manager also spending a lot of time going to LOI games and managing a LOI team - except travelling nearly 8,000 Km from where you international players play their club football. From the outset Hughton spent a lot more time in Ghana than he expected - and he made it clear that he was unwilling to spend the time demanded in the country (remember Hughton was hired and paid by the Ghanaian government - not the FA).
I suspect that he is deeply disappointed with how things have panned out - he wanted to do well in Ghana, not for reputation purposes, but because his father is from Ghana - and as I said early, I think the Irish job is the only one at this stage that would attract him in the immediate future for the same reason. After that it is very much an open question what he would do - he needed time after leaving Brighton and I think he will take time out if he doesn't get the Irish job. Ultimately he had several options before take the job at Forest - which was a big mistake from his perspective (he should have gone to WBA instead - a much better run club). Whether, apart from Ireland, another job becomes available that he thinks he can have an impact with is an open question - and whether he would want to take another job at 66/67 years of age is another story. I could see him taking on some sort of a supervisory/technical director role (indeed if Carsley gets the job he could do worse than bring Hughton on board in some sort of advisory capacity - having an old head as a sounding board for a young coach is never a bad idea).
Completely forgot about that - the FAI should be bombarded with protests if his name continues to be bounced around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
No evidence that he is competent - he managed Celtic when Rangers were at deaths door - he had no competition. His time with Bolton, Hibs and in Cyprus were a disaster - and is noted for fighting with and ostracising his players and club staff (clearly he has power/control issues).Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footb...lennon-7075826
Even if they just do the most basic due dilligence on him I can't see how the FAI can appoint Neil Lennon. If they do, they deserve everything coming their way.
He got Celtic out of the group stages of the CL. Is that not "competition"? Beating one of the best ever club sides in world in the process. Rangers self inflicted decline had nothing to do with Lennon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant
Going by that he may be " too busy " for the Irish job ! ! !Quote:
Originally Posted by Exgrad
In fairness the SPL is a two horse race. If one horse basically isn't running, then success of the league win is very significantly diminished in its achievement.Quote:
Originally Posted by weldoninhio
Btw if Carsley pulls out
I can see the fai at least meeting Roy Keane.
They know he will bring trouble, but he will also bring a sponsor deal.
My guess is he won't agree personally terms regardless
When Rangers were out of the running for a decade or so, Celtic had an enormous opportunity to invest in youth football, a football philosophy from the ground up and canny scouting, all without having to worry too much about not winning the league. Instead they just kept going down the journeyman football route. Missed opportunity.
One swallow doesn't make a summer - and while Barcelona were one of the best club sides, their team that year was not particularly good - they were later hammered 7-0 on agg by Bayern Munich (and Celtic were hammered by Juventus in the last 16). The following year Celtic were in the same group again with Barcelona, Barca hammered them 6-1 in a group game and they finished a distant bottom of the groupQuote:
Originally Posted by weldoninhio
As for Rangers - no it had nothing to do with Lennon - but Lennon was able to take advantage of the fact that in 2012-13 Rangers were in the Scottish Third Division and the following year in Scottish League One - it is 40 years since a club other than Celtic or Rangers won the Scottish title - when your only competition is playing in a different division then even the likes of Stephen Kenny could have won the title (hell even I could have won the title as Celtic manager during those seasons). During the only season where Rangers weren't imploding - 2010-11 - Rangers won the title. He was an utter disaster with Bolton and with Omonia Nicosia. In his second stint at Celtic, Rodgers had pretty much wrapped up the title when Lennon took over - the following year Celtic were awarded the title during the lockdown and his last year there Celtic imploded, in larger part to Lennon's antics and he was sacked in Feb of that season with Celtic already 20 points behind Rangers.
The fact that he is not anything remotely approaching a competent manager should rule him out - the fact that he is a scumbag who threatened to slit the throat of a woman he was in a relationship with should automatically exclude him from any consideration. He was 45 at the time and the woman was 24 - and after Lennon made the threat, he attempted to intimidate her hounding her with legal writs, he got his friends to harass her, he attempted to gag the media and then told the cops he was the victim and she was blackmailing him (despite the fact that she had already told his long term partner of the affair) - and then when he finally admitted it he made a mealy mouthed apology in order to save his job at Bolton (who should have sacked him on the spot).
On BBC todayQuote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/68074065
Lennon season by season:
2010/11: Lost the league to Rangers
2011/12: Won the league after Rangers entered administration (and were subsequently liquidated at the end of the season)
2012/13: Won the SPL, obviously Rangers weren't in it that year so effectively no competition
2013/14: Won the SPL, again Rangers weren't in it so no genuine competition
2014/15: Finished 18th in the Championship with Bolton
2015/16: Left Bolton in March with the club bottom of the table and in financial difficulty
2016/17: Won the Scottish second tier with Hibs. Hibs had by far the biggest budget in the division.
2017/18: Finished fourth in the SPL with Hibs. Hibs would have had the fourth or fifth biggest budget in the division.
2018/19: Finished fifth in the SPL, 13 points behind fourth.
2019/20: Was suspended by Hibs and subsequently mutually consented following reports of rows and fighting between the manager and other figures at the club. Hibs were ninth of 12 in the league at the time and recovered to seventh after his departure. Returned to Celtic in February to replace Rodgers with the title effectively already in the bag before he arrived.
2020/21: Blew "the ten" in spectacular fashion, finishing 25 points behind Rangers 2.0. Having dismissed him the previous season Hibs finished third in the league.
2021/22: Took over Cypriot side Omonia in March
2022/23: Was sacked by Omonia in October due to poor league results
I'm not seeing any genuine success there, the only success of note has been managing teams who have had a massively superior budget to the others in their division at the time. Whenever it's been a level playing field it's been occasional on par performance and mostly outright failure.
And that's before you take character issues into account which, IMO, should instantly rule him out of contention.
So you're saying he has a chance?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant
Both Celtic and Rangers are suffering because of their domination of Scottish football - despite both being big clubs with big fan bases, they are losing out on the massive TV money floating around football now and because they don't need to be competitive domestically, their ability to compete outside that shpere is greatly reduced.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
All of which is not really our concern or problem though (other than when they're mismanaging young Irish players). What is relevant though is, whenever it was a straight two way fight between the two big teams in Scotland, Lennon as a manager didn't win once.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant
What about the cons?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
You can just imagine Packie's contribution to the process though. That'd be my worry.
please steer clear of hughton and lennon @FAI
I watched their first and 3rd game, I thought they were poor enough in both those games. I had listened to a couple of pre-competition podcasts and the Ghanaian journalist was totally pessimistic about their team's prospects of advancing from the group due to the low quality of the squad.. That said, I thought they were far too cautious in the first game when defending their one goal lead, it did have the odor of an overly cautious coachQuote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant
I don't think Lennon has the credentials for the Ireland job, at least not since his departure from Bolton but your timeline synopsis and add on comments lack both objectivity and sensibilityQuote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
He took over a Celtic in complete disarray and most Celtic fans loved that first season. 2nd season after an awful start, he turned it around and were clear by the new year. A mixed EL campaign laid some optimism.
3rd season you write 'no Rangers' and conveniently ignore Celtic's best (ever?) season in the CL and imo had a 50/ 50 chance of getting to the 1/4s had effin' Ambrose stayed in Africa and celebrated with Nigeria.
In october he took over a Bolton team that had already looked dead and buried in the championship, the club was financially bankrupt and sanctioned. Bolton could only sign (on low wages) players on a free or loanees. In a stunning turnaround the club easily avoided relegation with games to play and perhaps he should have left then as the club was still in dire straights going into the next season
You write about 'character issues', what on earth are you alluding to? Neil is genuinely well respected in the game by players, managers and his rivals. Perhaps you confused the term character with personality as it is well known he has gone public with his chronic personality disorder issues. But if we were to dismiss a manager's credentials because of 'personality issues', who would be left standing? Take Roy Keane, if he were good enough and got results I would put his obvious personality issues as being a marginal issue, but he's not good enough and would not get the results.
You seriously don't know - and clearly haven't read the last few comments on here - or are you willing to ignore the fact that he threatened a woman with bodily harm and subsequently engaged in harassment and intimidation of the same woman and then lied to the cops about her.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Really - evidence - because we certainly have evidence to the opposite - Lennon and his assistant at Hibs, Gary Parker, hurled foul and aggressive language during a team meeting. This was on top of him publicly criticising individual players in the media. The team meeting was followed by a loud and angry meeting with the Chief Executive who Lennon claimed refused to back him to the hilt against the players. Lennon was sacked because pretty much the entire squad refused to play for him and they told the Chief Executive so.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Not an excuse for threatening a woman with bodily harmQuote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I will tell you one person who would be left standing - Chris Hughton - a person in football that no one has ever ushered a harsh word about, because he treats people as adults and with respect.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
It astonishes me that, where ever the media are getting their information, Chris Hughton has been summarily dismissed as a potential candidate for the job - while the likes of Neil Lennon is still regarded as a strong candidate. If that is an FAI leak then those making the decision should hang their heads in shame.
I have zero problem with Chris Hughton not getting the job - but if Neil Lennon is hired then it would be a far worse decision than hiring Steve Staunton and Stephen Kenny combined - and it would become a disaster very quickly. It will manifest itself firstly in a host of underage players deciding to declare for other countries because they would not want to play for the guy. A hyena does not change its spots.
I think the stuff about Lennon being liked within the FAI for the job is primarily coming from Paul Rowan. Rowan also was driving stuff about Kenny not having too many fans within the FAI while he was in the job. In both situations, he has referenced Packie Bonner supporting the former and Packie Bonner not supporting the latter. It feels to me like Rowan is the one keeping Lennon relevant to all of this.
I see Roy Keane's showing interest the last few days. He'd be as good as Lennon.
If it's not Carsley then there would want to be a rabbit coming from a hat. Lennon and Hughton are on the way down in their managerial careers. It would make no sense, surely. Also, there must be something to be read into Kilbane ramping up the articles of Carsley's fit for the gig. Has he had two in the last two weeks? Don't think that is a coincidence.
Trust me Geysir, when I say character I absolutely mean character.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
As for his much hyped Champions League run, which seems to be brought up a lot by those that like him (possibly because there's not much else to use in his defence), it may just be me but scraping through a Champions League group ahead of Benfica and Spartak Moscow while enjoying the significant advantage of not having to worry too much about weekend league games either side of midweek Champions League matches, because everyone knew they basically couldn't lose the league anyway, doesn't seem like too much of an achievement to me.
As an aside, when he was Hibs manager, every week they won a game he was out standing in front of the media afterwards taking all the credit for it. When they lost he used to send out Garry Parker in his place. Towards the end when the wheels had completely come off, Parker was being sent out after pretty much every game. I thought it said a lot about Lennon.
Great to see Ghana using the word fired - too much PC nonsense these days when managers get the boot. Mutual agreement my eye!
With Robbie Keane after winning a trophy ? !
Owen Cowzer calling it for Carsley.
I, for one, welcome our new folically challenged overlord.
Maybe the whole Lennon thing was just a clever ruse by the suits to get everyone on board with Carsley. A kind of "here's the horror show alternative you could have had, so let's all get behind Lee" thing. If it was then it worked!
If they are as good as mates as everyone is making out - there is no way Kilbane pens that article at the weekend without Carsley's blessing.
Carsely wants it and it's up to the FAI to offer him a decent package to get it over the line. Will the English FA be due any compensation?