http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sp...-16015100.html
Printable View
Heh, good luck to him. Would be surprised if it works out long-term though.
It's not the club or the players who're the problem in the main, but a substantial minority of their fans....
It wouldn't be TJ Vickerman's preposterous premise?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
I brought this sort of ignorance up with Danny. People outside of Ireland really don't know how the whole north/south thing works or how there came to be 2 jurisdictions on the island.
If you think about that comment, a lot of our grandparents', I would to say most, where born in the UK.
I hate this kind of ignorance. It's the kind of ignorance which requires an answer which will almost certainly bring in a load of jeery responses of 'you shouldn't bring politics into football!'Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
Hey, we didn't and never have - not our fault they spent history class playing with themselves...
Even some of the things purporting to be fact in the article are ridiculous.
Someone just post the link to THE BLOG will Ye?
Yeah, but won't someone have to ascertain and certify it first? I can't see the IFA doing that given their opposition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
In what way is it "a nonsense as a general principle"?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Did dual nationality for Northern Irish born people not apply pre GFA?
Birth Certificate would be ample for verification.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Done. Danny's our official expert on these issues, but I went ahead and linked it. An official response from DI, however, would still be welcomed I'm sureQuote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
No problem with the several past and present GAA players that have played/do play for my favourites, Linfield, from the fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
A handy GAA player scored our winner in the recent Irish Cup Final.
The only recent problem was with some from one of our GAA player's "community" giving him some grief about signing for Linfield.
I reckon you've pretty much covered everything there. I'd only be repeating what you said.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
I'll let you work it out....Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Hmm. That would explain some who've I met who were gurning about "F*ckin' Taigs", playing for them. But maybe they were just having a bad day....Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Are you saying Irish Americans are "a nonsense"?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
What about the South's fans that were born in, for example, England - are they "a nonsense"?
French Canadians - "a nonsense"?
I suspect it is you who is struggling with the concept of Dual Nationality - not me.
I have yet to hear any Linfield fan I know - I go to most games - say anything of that nature. You must keep bad company.
Except wasn't talking about people born in the US or outside Ireland, but people from the island of Ireland. Though you knew that fine well.
And where's this mythical 'South' of which you speak?? Korea?
As for Linfield fans, am sure :rolleyes: they're an upstanding bunch of Society and was being somewhat 'sarcastic'. Though what they say to complete strangers and their own are no doubt quite different.
:eek:
Really?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
"Mr Kearns has a dual nationality. He can choose to play for the IFA given his British passport and for the FAI given his Irish passport,without any added territorial connection. He would not have such an option if he held either British or the Irish nationality but not both"
Familiar?
"A nonsense"?
:D
Yeah, a nonsense based on the GFA. Which I said yesterday, so what?
It hardly applies in the wider sense.
I asked you previously, but you didn't respond.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Was it, or was it not, the case that someone born Northern Ireland could enjoy dual nationality (British & Irish) prior to the GFA?
What "wider sense"?
Going back to the GAA player signing for Rangers...
That's interesting. There was mild surprise when one player, a goalkeeper (Alan Smith I think?), signed a couple of years ago. I wonder who the others are/if they're any use.Quote:
“Rangers is full of lads who have played Gaelic: there are five in the squad that Aaron’s joining, three Dublin fellas and one from Omagh, and three or four of the Rangers scouts had Celtic tattoos on them,” said Michael.
Just came across this: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/op...-14711799.html
It was a letter sent to the Belfast Telegraph by an Irish football fan from Belfast in March of 2010. Given that the Belfast Telegraph continually get the rules that apply to the situation so wrong, it would appear their writers didn't take much notice of it.
As a response to the dud claim of governmental interference or of those who support the right of northern-born Irish nationals to play for Ireland bringing politics into football, I found this somewhat facetious comment amusing:Quote:
There has been much written on the Shane Duffy affair and his decision to declare for the Football Association of Ireland.
Reference keeps being made to FIFA Satute Article 16. Article 16 exists to deal with players whose nationality entitles them to play for more than one association on account of their nationality.
Most people seem to miss that Irish nationality does not give you this entitlement, therefore Article 16 does not apply.
Article 15 is quite clear: "Any person holding a permanent nationality that is not dependant on residence in a certain country is eligible to play for the representative teams of the Association of that country." It is on this basis that Shane Duffy is eligible, not that his father came from Donegal.
Quote:
You know what I was wondering....since the partition of Ireland into 26/6 counties was not a democratic process, the creation of Northern Ireland by outside forces (UK) could technically constitute Government interference in football matters...there you have it, The IFA should disband, problem solved.
Well not quite. The IFA existed before the State. The FAI should disband.
Also the outside forces were of the UK government on the free state not on ni surely?
I've set up an account with WSC but I am awaiting activation from the administrator. I was just going to take issue with this point made beneath the recent Jonathan Bradley piece:
Lots of things in life are unusual but it doesn't take away from their validity or legitimacy. In fact, I don't think the above is actually all that unusual. Shane Lowry of Aston Villa is an example where Ireland lost out on a player who had played with the FAI at under-17 level and later at under-21 level before deciding he wanted to play senior football for Australia. Lowry is a dual national, having been born in Australia to Irish parents, but his decision was not met with anything remotely like the fierce antipathy and bluster you get from NI fans when a northern-born Irish national declares for the FAI. It was his decision; Ireland fans accepted that and, although obviously disappointed, wished him the best. Little issue was made of it.Quote:
But it is pretty unusual in the wider World for them to stop playing under-age internationals for one country, then declare for another.
There are other examples of players switching from one association to the other, some whilst still at under-age level with another association. Wasn't Owen Hargreaves selected by Wales at under-age level before switching to the FA after England came calling? Kevin-Prince Boateng played with Germany from under-15 level through to under-21 level but has since declared for Ghana. Likewise, Thiago Motta played with Brazil at under-17 and under-23 levels before declaring for Italy. Asmir Begović played for Canada at under-20 level before declaring for Bosnia & Herzegovina. Mikkel Diskerud played for Norway at under-18 and under-19 levels, later switching to play for the US at under-20 level. He has since received two senior caps with the US. Fréddie Kanouté played for France at under-21 and 'B' level before switching to Mali. Mevlüt Erdinç is another; he played for France at under-17 level before declaring for Turkey at under-19 level. He's gone on to play for the Turkish senior side on ten occasions.
A significant portion of the senior Algerian team is French-born and played for France at under-age level. The same applies to a few players who currently play for Morocco, including Marouane Chamakh.
Then, we've got Edgar Castillo and Jermaine Jones. Both played three senior friendly games for Mexico and Germany, respectively, before switching to play for the US.
Not really relevant to the above, but, out of interest, could, say, Owen Hargreaves, play football for Canada in the Olympics, assuming he was fit and they were participating, and then switch back to the FA and play for England again, or would that be deemed a switch in the eyes of FIFA? If it would be, then, technically, shouldn't all those players who represent this Team GB be deemed to be switching to play for another association/country?
Edit: And how did I forget young Oliver Norwood? Or Ryan Brobbel?
You are correct in identifying a certain rotund hypocrite.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
Don't worry;since Fulham may now play a certain team from N.Beal-feirste, he's now lost interest.
As per the other week in Liege, " I no longer support Northern Ireland as they're a bunch of wasters who aren't interested in playing, so why should I care about them?"
And have at least 10 witnesses to this, inc. members of the Irish press corps, who asked his name, so out of place did he look....
I did, but you chose to ignore my answer! However will concede others are more knowledgeable on this, so will cede on whatever pedantic straw you're grasping at.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Except in the "wider sense";The bubble must be fairly small if you don't realise the wider implications....even for an apologist for Northern unionism.
;)
I'm sorry but, just to satisfy my curiousity AB, how exactly do you know GR?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
I'm still having trouble picturing the two of you, given your exchanges over the years, sitting down to lunch together in Liege?
No easy answer to that one, Fly!
But for all the faults involved, should be mindful that certain people would object to a meeting with our kind, so we should leave it at that?
Or PM me.
Sure, I didn't mean it to be all that enlightening or persuasive given it seemed to be a tongue-in-cheek comment, but the point is that, given the nature of international football - it being contested between countries, or overtly political entities, if you will - you could claim that the whole thing is fundamentally founded on "governmental interference". People don't make such daft protestations, however. International football is what it is. It just makes those who take issue with Irish nationality law in particular look silly, when so many states around the world have varying nationality laws with which no-one takes issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
Was kind of the point I was trying to say above but ten times more clumsily.
:eek:
I'd lunch with anyone if Bellevue Kriek was available.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fly
Mr Bhoy has been a prominent figure on the London football management scene for many years.
Only last month I refereed an over 35 all star select under his direction. All went well until the Louth-based lager-lout started a row in an empty changing room about rolling substitutions, or similar.
Prominent as in size or status? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Classic AB. An honorary Ulsterman, if ever there was such a thing. Maybe like Lord Edward Carson.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Err, I'll get my coat... :eek:
:ball: PP
Ah Danny, you just got my thinking juices flowing with it. And then I started thinking about that premise.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Not to worry; I'm just eager to hear more GR and AB-based anecdotes.
Sorry, you didn't answer the question, and now concede you don't know the answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
You seem unable to accept that people born in Northern Ireland are, de facto, Dual Nationals - however they wish to "identify".
By the way, I'm an unapologetic Unionist.
AB and GR - officially foot.ie's odd couple. Wherever they go hilarity ensues!!!! From rows during over 35's footy matches to eligibility issues right through to 'In Liege' style hi-jinks, nothing is off limits for the wacky twosome!
That sitcom would get cancelled after two weeks...
Came across this story released just today about another player to switch associations outside of the Irish context. Norwegian-born Adam Larsen Kwarasey has had his eligibility to play for Ghana approved. Kwarasey played once for Norway at under-21 level but turned down further interest from the Norwegian association two years ago with the hopes of representing Ghana, from where his father comes. He had his documents processed within the last week: http://www.ghanafa.org/news/201106/5718.php
http://www.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePag....php?ID=205241Quote:
After enduring the long wait to have his desire for a nationality switch approved, Adam Larsen Kwarasey says he is thrilled he can now represent Ghana at international level.
Fifa, last week informed the Ghana Football Association the 23 year-old goalkeeper was eligible to play since he had not played in any official international 'A' match for Norway.
Quote:
With all documents available, Fifa approves change of players’ nationality within two weeks as it did with Mali’s Samassa.
The Stromgodset goalkeeper told GHANAsoccernet.com he was frustrated by the long drawn-out process which started last year.
...
Kwarasey acquired his Ghanaian passport last September and wrote the formal letter to Fifa seeking the switch.
The Norwegian FA says it provided its document in December, which means if the GFA had acted rapidly, the goalkeeper should have been approved by Fifa last year.
“We also confirm that ADAM LARSEN KWARASEY has not at any point played for the Norwegian “A” National Team,” the letter to the Norwegian FA letter to the GFA read.
The goalkeeper was born to a Ghanaian father and a Norwegian mother which makes his eligible to play for the Black Stars.
Kwarasey turned down invitations to play for the European country’s under-21 side two years ago with the hope of playing for Ghana.
The highly-rated youngster is hoping that his form and height will gain him a place in Ghana’s squad for future matches.
Kwarasey has currently been rated as the best goalkeeper in the Norwegian top flight after impressive displays which secured a historic Europa league place for Stromsgodset.
Two seconds more like....Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
More seriously, good work refuting the usual from GR on the WSC site.
You've gone upwards in my estimation.
And I was making the point it's an exception, not the general rule.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
As for the last bit, that's hardly news.
Except opening yourself up to the usual....
;)
ANY footballer born in Northern Ireland can play for either Northern Ireland or the South.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
This is possible because of the dual nationality of the players.
How, exactly, is that "an exception, not the general rule"?
Why can you not accept fact?
Except that's not what I'm even talking about!!
Oh nice one, cheers, thanks...Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
:bulgy:Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Well then, what exactly are you talking about?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy