Republic of Ireland V Bulgaria - Wednesday, 18th November 2020 - Nations League

Putting all our faith in players with 'potential' seems to be rather clutching at straws. I doubt if Idah and Connolly will score more than ten goals between them this season at their clubs (presuming they even get enough games in the first team). I suspect their careers will probably mostly play out at Championship level, possibly even dropping down to League One at some point - although I believe, on what we've seen so far, Connolly will do better than Idah.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Don't let the facts get in the way of the perogative.

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I think you mean narrative there. Prerogative is the right of an individual. And it's spelt prerogative. With an "r"

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I'd read somewhere earlier in the week that half the players missing had something like 80% of the caps amongst them.

We've been lucky as i said to bring through young players, that hopefully will feature in the future for us and have been fast-tracked. I have no idea or not whether Bulgaria can say the same :)

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What does that even mean "half the players missing had 80% of the caps", I'm guessing that the top seven players of the 14 that were unavailable had 80% of the caps total of the 14?
Proving what exactly?

Dara O'Shea is a huge positive for us going forward. He looked good at centre half, he looked okay at left back and I thought he looked excellent at right back. He clipped a few beautiful crosses into the box. He won't be right back for us in the future but he's a huge option beside John Egan at the back, particularly given his comfort on the ball. I think he has a huge future.

Jason Knight impressed me last night. He gives us the hustle and bustle and aggression that we need in midfield. Between McCarthy, Hendrick, Molumby, Cullen, Browne, Arter, Brady, Byrne and Knight we now have a lot of options at a fairly similar level. It's probably now about picking the right combination or a couple of players kicking on- there's a lot of potential in Knight, Molumby and Cullen to progress and who knows what Jack Byrne can achieve at this stage.

There's a case for McCarthy, Hendrick and Knight to start. I would also gladly see Molumby and Cullen in there. Hourihane should be nowhere near the team after his last few matches. He was dreadful last night. He didn't look at all fussed either- I refuse to believe he couldn't control that game if he wanted to and tried to.

Up front is a difficult one. Collins looked fine and served a purpose. He should have scored the header at the back post in the first half that went over. Horgan has definitely earned credit for his performances. However, he's probably occupying that middle ground above Maguire and Curtis but behind Connolly, Robinson, Long and maybe even McClean and O'Dowda.

Overall:
I think that O'Shea and Knight are the two to push themselves into starting contention;
Kenny clearly fancies Browne and, to a lesser extent, Horgan;
Idah has had a difficult role and struggled in it a lot- I think he needs a full season of club football before hanging our hat on him as a starter. Is it very rare for a number 9 to thrive in a front three? A lot of line leading 9's tend to struggle in their late teens and early 20's from my memory- Kane, Drogba and Giroud are three that come to mind as having struggled through spells at second tier French and English sides. I can see Callum Robinson occupying this spot for us.

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Originally Posted by MancIrishWolf

Well thank God those three are over. That said, they were beneficial in blooding the youngsters, however equally for reaffirming the inadequacy of a shower of heartless, older mediocrity in the squad.

Positives: O’Shea (AKA the new Dunne), Molomby, Knight, Doherty, Idah, Long

Negatives: Hourihane, Brady, McLean, Duffy, Hendrick

The remainder either needed more time (Parrot & Byrne), or continue with severe question marks that they are up to International Standard such as Collins, Curtis, Manning and Horgan (although the fact they all displayed more desire and bravery than the seasoned pros in the team is embarrassing).

It’s becoming increasingly evident that we need to write off Qatar and build for the next Euros and beyond a lot like France did when they sacrificed Euro 96 for 98.

Whether or not, Kenny is the man must surely be questioned by even his most ardent of supporters. I hope he succeeds and applaud his footballing approach, however adaptability is the key to existence and sticking a bench of average square pegs in round holes is obviously not working.

With an abundance of solid centre halves (currently and emerging) and a dirth of centre midfielders, along with the two of the best wing backs in the country, I’d love to see us line our line this in March with Coleman interchangeable at wing back and Parrot and Bazuna pushing at the fringes:

Randolph

O’Shea Long Clarke

Doherty Knight Molomby Stevens

Robinson Idah Connolly

As it is, I anticipate Kenny will maintain with a flat back four, slow build up and continued integration with average older players in his persisted flawed strategy.

If this is the case and we still show no signs of success, one man I would love to see given a chance is one of my favourite players to wear the green shirt, Steven Reid, a man who typified heart and desire on the pitch, is learning under experienced managers in Hodgson, Hughton and Clarke and has that hardworking attitude (he apparently used to drive to London from Manchester daily to coach Palace) which is infectious. The fact that he has experience in helping a team get to a major tournament is invaluable - the fact that it’s with Scotland and not Ireland is a tragedy.

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i love Steven Reid but if you look at Scotland's actual results while he's been there they actually haven't been much good!

I agree with most of the rest. The actual XI you selected is open to debate. I am more positive about Hendrick's recent contributions than most here. I think he has shown Giles' "moral courage" at the very least.

I have virtually written off Qatar already, but remember that's "selfish and unpatriotic"!

I agree, its an idealist view really. One unfounded in reality. I do think though with all the players back, he will be much more sure of himself and what he needs come March. I just hope that he sees where its worth persisting(Idah is not that player, whether he will be is open to question) with his ways and where its not he changes. These games have clearly shown that we must pick our best players in their best positions, and the best players we have for certain positions. Make the glove fit, use the right formation that gets the best out of those available. This is what I would like to see but I'm 90% sure it wont happen

Randolph
Egan Duffy/Long Clark
Doherty/Coleman Stevens
McCarthy Molumby
Byrne/Hendrick
Robinson/Connolly Collins/Connolly

I've left it fairly open in a couple of positions, as I'm relatively happy and feel it could be changed/tweaked slightly or starting and finishing could be changed adapted based off who we are playing and how the game is going. I'd like that system for most of the pots up to 2nd(including).

Then when it comes to the big teams revert to a 4-5-1

Randolph
Doherty Egan Duffy/Long Stevens
Coleman Mccarthy Molumby Hendrick Connolly
Robinson

Paul, I'm going to need an answer on my above post, and on Stutt's post from the previous page.
You have one day.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Not really to be honest, thats why I asked. And those people are gone quiet on here now as I suspected. I think backstothewall summed it up pretty good, but I think there are probably a few more negatives, and a couple more positives if we scratched around. I think the reality has hit home that one performance doesn't make a summer, and if the manager isnt learning and/or adapting as he goes along then the same old failings will persist.

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The biggest negative under Kenny is the lack of goals. But we scored just 7 goals in the group qualification for the Euros - which included 4 games against Georgia and Gibraltar. To put it into perspective, Denmark and Switzerland scored 23 and 19 goals respectively in the same qualification group. Our goal scoring problems are not a Kenny issue but have been brewing under the radar.

Cast your mind back to the last Nations League campaign and the final game against Denmark, and argue if what you have seen under Kenny is an improvement or not on that.

Last night was bad but the changes Kenny is trying to implement are long over due and necessary.

Final tables in for the Nations League, so we've some sight of who we'll be playing in two years

One from each group of 4

Switzerland, Sweden,Bosnia, Iceland

Finland, Norway, Scotland, Russia

Slovenia, Montenegro, Albania, Armenia

So, 8-10 WC qualifiers, 2-3 friendlies, and 6 more NL games against the above teams. 16-20 games... and that's before the 2024 Euro qualifiers start

Apart from the fact it's a mental number of international games.. that really is loads of time for any manager to build a side and a plan to get to Germany in 2024

As of this morning, we are no 24 in UEFA rankings.. so we should be in a competition with 24 places

After an abject 4 years in my opinion.. not just one campaign

And the team that plays in those finals, should be radically different from the one now

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Originally Posted by ifk101

The biggest negative under Kenny is the lack of goals. But we scored just 7 goals in the group qualification for the Euros - which included 4 games against Georgia and Gibraltar. To put it into perspective, Denmark and Switzerland scored 23 and 19 goals respectively in the same qualification group. Our goal scoring problems are not a Kenny issue but have been brewing under the radar.

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And 4 in 9 games in the entire of 2018 don't forget. And 7 in 10 games in 2017.

And Robbie Keane retired in August 2016...

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

No Worries, I'm a bit busy today, can you do a task estimate? And put it in Microsfot Project for me, then i can probably estimate. Ill have to priortise the work too.

Thanks

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Now it's 12 hours.

Whats 12 hours exactly? You havent given a description of the task at hand? I need a bit more guidance

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Originally Posted by Trequartista20

Manning has started two matches in four months, I'm not really sure what people expected.

It's a bit early and rather knee-jerk to write the lad off after just one game.

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He certainly did not look fit and maybe even slightly overweight. I doubt he would ever make a fullback ~ ~ maybe a wingback but he needs to get fit and very fit for that position !

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Whats 12 hours exactly? You havent given a description of the task at hand? I need a bit more guidance

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12 hours to answer my post above

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Don't let the facts get in the way of the perogative.

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I think you mean narrative there. Prerogative is the right of an individual. And it's spelt prerogative. With an "r"

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I'd read somewhere earlier in the week that half the players missing had something like 80% of the caps amongst them.

We've been lucky as i said to bring through young players, that hopefully will feature in the future for us and have been fast-tracked. I have no idea or not whether Bulgaria can say the same

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What does that even mean "half the players missing had 80% of the caps", I'm guessing that the top seven players of the 14 that were unavailable had 80% of the caps total of the 14?
Proving what exactly?

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and this post from the previous page

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Can some on here defending the so called makey uppey 2 year plan in bullet point form summarise the positive and negatives from these first 8 games? Not big long paragraphs just bullet point one liners. And don't mention anything that could/might/potentially happen. What positives they saw and negatives. There's plenty on here who've referenced that "building for the future/forget WC 2022/it's a 2 year project" . I want to hear from them moreso on this.

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Can you?

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Keep asking questions. See what happens.
Now you have six hours.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I agree with ifk's post above except I think Horgan has that little bit of guile players with bigger reputations don't have.

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Horgan looks like he could do with losing a few LBS as well. I would have thought that players playing even at his level would be more professional about diet and fitness.

Perhaps these clubs are not as well organised as we think.

Posts on the manager moved to the Stephen Kenny thread, keep the discussion here on the game against Bulgaria

(this isn't aimed at anyone in particular, just easier to keep things on track)

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

12 hours to answer my post above


and this post from the previous page


Keep asking questions. See what happens.
Now you have six hours.

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About time someone put manners on him tets and appreciated. I've a pain in my face from listening to this outta him.

Paul, the floor is yours.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

12 hours to answer my post above


and this post from the previous page


Keep asking questions. See what happens.
Now you have six hours.

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I think you mean narrative there. Prerogative is the right of an individual. And it's spelt prerogative. With an "r"

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I always thought the american way was to spell it without the R, so just left it lazily. But yes i meant its the individual posters right to ignore the facts, as they choose.

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What does that even mean "half the players missing had 80% of the caps", I'm guessing that the top seven players of the 14 that were unavailable had 80% of the caps total of the 14?
Proving what exactly?

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Point i was trying to make was that the Bulgaria 11 that would take to the field against us was very inexperienced. So they had just as bad luck as us.

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Can you?

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No I said I can't, stutts thanked the reply. I never came out with any nonsense about 2 years plans, throwing away wcs or building for the future or players coming through. Same way as I dont know about the retention of heat and energy in solar panels, so I amn't going to comment, I'd ask the question and expect a reply.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I always thought the american way was to spell it without the R, so just left it lazily. But yes i meant its the individual posters right to ignore the facts, as they choose.

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The you should have written "ignore the facts, that's your prerogative", or "don't let the facts get in the way of the narrative". What you wrote made no sense.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Point i was trying to make was that the Bulgaria 11 that would take to the field against us was very inexperienced. So they had just as bad luck as us.

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"half the missing players" could have referred to either the missing Irish or Bulgarian players, be less ambiguous in future.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

No I said I can't, stutts thanked the reply. I never came out with any nonsense about 2 years plans, throwing away wcs or building for the future or players coming through. Same way as I dont know about the retention of heat and energy in solar panels, so I amn't going to comment, I'd ask the question and expect a reply.

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I don't see any thanks from him on your reply.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

But yes i meant its the individual posters right to ignore the facts, as they choose.



Point i was trying to make was that the Bulgaria 11 that would take to the field against us was very inexperienced. So they had just as bad luck as us.

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Funny, because as far as I recall the original claim in the post you thanked and the two posts you used to claim I was ignoring facts was that Bulgaria had had much worse luck than us (so we should win easily was the context).

So now we've had the same bad luck?

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Funny, because as far as I recall the original claim in the post you thanked and the two posts you used to claim I was ignoring facts was that Bulgaria had had much worse luck than us (so we should win easily was the context).

So now we've had the same bad luck?

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That was my recollection too. Paul - answer the question.