Everton and Liverpool discussion

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Originally Posted by jockser

We will win in Leverkusen if we play like that again.

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The problem is we won't play like that away from home. Heard someone say that the two guys that got booked for Bayer, Freier and Ponto, are both suspended for the second leg. Their captain Nowotny (spelling) will be missing again as well. So that's good news, they'll actually be even weaker than they were last night.

We'll have Gerrard back, which is a big plus. I can see Benitez using his 4-5-1 line-up which worries me. Hamann, Biscan, Gerrard in the middle, Baros up front on his own, with Riise and Kewell supporting from out wide. It's the mentality that they go into the game with that is vital. If they go in with too defensive a mindset, they'll go out. That is the worry. F**k Dudek anyway, he basically halved their task from needing 4 goals, to now only needing 2.

Next up now are chelsea on Sunday. I'm pretty confident that we'll win this one now. We've nothing to lose, while Chelsea have a few question marks over them after this week. Mourinho was whinging again tonight, refusing to speak to the media after defeat. Chelsea looked tired, especially up front, Mourinho also looks under a lot of pressure. What are the odds of a Liverpool win on Sunday, and also being the only premiership side in the CL Quarter Finals? :eek: :D

i reckon it will be a 4-5-1- formation for 2nd leg too but with riise and garcia on the wings and kewell on the bench.
I can see us scoring away from home also.

I think we will win on sunday also but thats saying it with the head not only just the heart :)

Wouldn't play Garcia in the second leg personally, he's too lightweight away from home when we are under the cosh.

Regards Sunday, either Chelsea will come roaring back or they'll be nervous and short of confidence. It'll be interesting, it's a good test of Mourinho's true worth as a manager. He's going to have to earn his money now with the injuries etc, which is no harm. I hope we win, if only to see the smugness wiped from his face afterwards. Then again, he probably won't give any interviews if he loses. If Benitez has any brain at all, he should try and have a friendly chat with the Ref at half-time, drive poor old Jose mad altogether :D

Excellent stuff from the boys in blue today. A huge morale boosting win after the week that was in it. Once again the rising star that is $Leon$ Osman proved his worth to this Everton side and the unthinkable- a place in Champions League is now becoming ever more of a reality.

In many ways, Liverpool's season hinges on tomorrow's Carling Cup :p . I'm not prepared to put money on it but I've a sneaky feeling Liverpool might shade this one. For the good of both Jose and Evertonians, I hope I'm wrong ;) .

Agree with ya 100% Dillo. What a great 3 points for the Merseyside Blues today. I reckon they will go on and take that final CL position now. On a seperate note, I am finally beginning to come round to your way of thinking on Tim Cahill. He is a big talent alright.
However, I believe Jose will get his troops back on track against Liverpool with his first trophy as Blues manager.

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Originally Posted by Dillo

Excellent stuff from the boys in blue today.

the unthinkable- a place in Champions League is now becoming ever more of a reality.

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Don't get too excited, you only beat Aston Villa away. No prizes for that. However, we have effectively 2 home games in hand on yous. If we beat yous in 3 weeks, and win the other game in hand, the gap is down to 2 points, and we've a handy run-in by comparison. Still fancy 4th?????

Well put it this way, I think you'll agree that if Everton don't finish above Liverpool this season, you'll never do it. Liverpool will be a bit demoralised after the cup final defeat, especially because they threw it away. To be honest I think all Everton need at Anfield is a point, and fourth is theirs. I have no problems predicting that we'll score against Everton at Anfield, it's keeping them out that's the problem. Dudek is just a joke of a keeper at this stage, while the defense falls asleep too often.

I have no confidence in us winning our away games, we could miss out on the CL because of it. Our only hope could be a premiership winner of the Champions League, which might mean 5th place getting a CL spot.

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

Dudek is just a joke of a keeper at this stage, while the defense falls asleep too often.

I have no confidence in us winning our away games, we could miss out on the CL because of it. Our only hope could be a premiership winner of the Champions League, which might mean 5th place getting a CL spot.

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Dudek's mistakes are getting more and more frequent allright but he is still more experienced and better than any keeper at the club.If he goes who do we have, an injury prone,and not that great Kirkland and a young fella from leeds.There aren't many great goalies around anymore with Cech being the only outstanding one in the prem.By the way I thought Dudek had a great game today.

Fourth should be easily attained still if the players really put in the effort,they are much better than everton and should be far too strong for them at anfield in 3 weeks.

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Originally Posted by DolansWaistcoat

By the way I thought Dudek had a great game today.

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DolansWaistcoat, you're right, he had a great game. He also had a great game against Leverkusen. But he messed up as well in both of those games. His attempt at saving Chelsea's third is typical of Dudek, fumbling at crucial moments, and always when there is an opposition striker around to knock it in. Had he saved that, maybe we could have gone to penalties. I wasn't impressed with him for the second goal either, he didn't make himself very big against Drogba. In any case, he should've been jumping for that ball and punching it away, cammanding his 6 yard area. Hyypia was at fault as well, but not entirely. Just not good enough. Then there's the Leverkusen goal, after making some blinding saves earlier on in the game. Again, not good enough. What good is a 'keeper that plays superb for 80 minutes, and then goes to sleep for the last 10? Remember Portsmouth at home? I could go on and on and on.....


The fact that United and Arsenal have sh*t keepers as well is no consolation. IMO, Shay Given and Dean Kiely are two premiership keepers who are better than what we have. Carson can't be any worse than Dudek or Kirkland. I'd throw him in at this stage because it's only a matter of time before Dudek drops another clanger.

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

DolansWaistcoat, you're right, he had a great game. He also had a great game against Leverkusen. But he messed up as well in both of those games. His attempt at saving Chelsea's third is typical of Dudek, fumbling at crucial moments, and always when there is an opposition striker around to knock it in. Had he saved that, maybe we could have gone to penalties. I wasn't impressed with him for the second goal either, he didn't make himself very big against Drogba. In any case, he should've been jumping for that ball and punching it away, cammanding his 6 yard area. Hyypia was at fault as well, but not entirely. Just not good enough. Then there's the Leverkusen goal, after making some blinding saves earlier on in the game. Again, not good enough. What good is a 'keeper that plays superb for 80 minutes, and then goes to sleep for the last 10? Remember Portsmouth at home? I could go on and on and on.....


The fact that United and Arsenal have sh*t keepers as well is no consolation. IMO, Shay Given and Dean Kiely are two premiership keepers who are better than what we have. Carson can't be any worse than Dudek or Kirkland. I'd throw him in at this stage because it's only a matter of time before Dudek drops another clanger.

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Even after winning in midweek, I still didn't think we'd win the League Cup Final. With our fragile defence, you wouldn't expect us to hang on for 90 minutes without conceding. Still their equalizer came suddenly, and it was all downhill from there. They were helped by Dudek, who made not one, but TWO errors for their third goal. We have to wish good luck to Chelsea in their quest to buy sorry, win the title. The alternative is another summer of having to listen to how wonderful Fergie's club are. In other words, there is no alternative, Chelsea must win the title.

As for us, on the back of a League Cup Final defeat, we're off to Newcastle next week, who just happen to have won their last 4 games, and with us only getting 1 point there in the last 2 seasons, you'd have to say another defeat, thereby losing more ground to Everton for fourth. :mad:

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Originally Posted by mypost

Even after winning in midweek, I still didn't think we'd win the League Cup Final.

As for us, on the back of a League Cup Final defeat, we're off to Newcastle next week, who just happen to have won their last 4 games, and with us only getting 1 point there in the last 2 seasons, you'd have to say another defeat, thereby losing more ground to Everton for fourth. :mad:

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Always the optimist,eh mypost! ;)

A win against Newcastle,which is very possible and Everton dropping points at the weekend and we'll be laughin again.We will win against everton at Anfield,no doubt about that. :D

everton wont drop points at goodison against blackburn , but liverpool prob will drop some away to newcastle that will leave the gapp at 11 points , they wont catch everton , everton are a way better team this year .at anfield liverpool might snatch a draw if they play really well

Was just looking at the remaining fixtures there. Tried to predict roughly how things will go, and ended up with both sides finishing level on points. Liverpool will have the superior goal difference. Liverpool will have to go unbeaten to have any chance of the Champions League IMO, tough ask at the moment. Not confidet about facing a resurgent Newcastle, and that ***** Souness at the weekend.

Everton:
Blackburn (H) - win - 3 points
Liverpool (A) - lose -
West Brom (A) - win - 3 points
C Palace (H) - win - 3 points
Arsenal (A) - lose -
Man Utd (H) - lose -
Birmingham (H) - win - 3 points
Fulham (A) - draw - 1 point
Newcastle Utd (H) - draw - 1 point
Bolton W (A) - draw - 1 point

TOTAL - 15 points

Liverpool
Newcastle Utd (A) - draw - 1 point
Everton (H) - win - 3 points
Bolton W (H) - win - 3 points
Man City (A) - draw - 1 point
Spurs (H) - win - 3 points
Portsmouth (A) - draw - 1 point
C Palace (A) - draw - 1 point
Middlesbrough (H) - win - 3 points
Arsenal (A) - draw - 1 point
Aston Villa (H) - win - 3 points
Blackburn (H) - win - 3 points <<Liverpools game in hand>>

Total - 23 points

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Originally Posted by mypost

Don't get too excited, you only beat Aston Villa away. No Still fancy 4th?????

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Yes mypost. I still very much fancy fourth. The best Liverpool can hope for is a draw at Newcastle. I'll be disappointed if the toffees don't pick up three points at home to Blackburn. At this stage Everton should and won't fear any premiership team- and that includes the top three. The forthcoming Merseyside derby is a huge game for both clubs. I feel very confident that the blues will at least take a point.

On a separate note, I was very pleased to see Jose take his first trophy in English football. His gesture to the media (the Liverpool fans ;) ) was priceless and tells us all we need to know about the 'Special one'. Barring a miracle, the Premiership title is also going to Stamford Bridge.
However, I believe this year's Champions League might be a step too far for Mourinho's blues. Having been to the Nou Camp mid week to watch the might of Barca take on Espanyol, it will take a gallant effort from Chelsea to overcome Rijkaard's charges. While the game finished scoreless, the Catalan giants as we all know play some exquisite stuff. If Chelsea fail to progress, I hope Barca win the CL. It is a special club and a special place.

Liverpool 0-1 Newcastle

Total Garbage!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Next one up, home against the neighbours.

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Originally Posted by mypost

Liverpool 0-1 Newcastle

Total Garbage!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Next one up, home against the neighbours.

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Are you still confident? :p I lowered myself to watch that game in James' Park yesterday. It was hard to look at. The standard of football from both sides was horrendous. If ye play like that in the Bayarena, Leverkusen will rip use apart. Sad times for football seeing Liverpool in the last 16 anyway. Pure muck, total garbage as you say yourself. :rolleyes:

Well they go from looking like world beaters at home to being absolutely clueless away every two weeks or so. I'm beginning to have my doubts about Benitez, he doesn't seem to be able to motivate the team, and his tactics away from home are absolutely shocking. As bad as the injury list is and as average as some of the players are, they should still be able to get results away from home. Man for man they are better than Everton in almost every department, yet as a team they don't come close.

Benitez has them going into every away game with a negative attitude. They make no attempt to win away from home, it's all defend with this one-man-up-front rubbish. They're then losing games by the odd goal more often than not, and from set-pieces and stupid individual mistakes. It's the same thing game after game, has Benitez not learned anything since the start of the season? This season has been a complete disaster and is as bad, if not worse, than anytime when Houllier was in charge. They'll go into the Bayer game on wednesday with the same attitude as all the other away games, so i'm not expecting to progress to the next round at this stage.

If Liverpool fail to qualify for the CL, it'll set the club back by about 2 years. Basically we are screwed. Our only saving grace now are the sales of Baros, Diouf and Gerrard, and with the rubbish the latter is serving up at the moment, we might not even get the £35m that everyone says we'll get. To be honest, Liverpool don't deserve to qualify for the CL anyway cos they have been abysmal on their travels this season. It's Everton's to throw away now.

Yeah Liverpool were poor, never looked up for it yesterday. I dont see them catching Everton now, there arent enough games to make up the difference and even then I cant see Everton slipping up too much. Benitez has had bad luck with injuries to strikers, but even so he still plays a negative system too often, and with Dudek in goal for much of the season (I know Carson was in nets yesterday) playing defensive football is risky when your keeper has a proven track record of being unable to catch/stop long range shots.

Still you should be good enough to go thru in Germany and then if you get an easy tie next round (eg winners of PSV-Monaco or Werder-Lyon) you could well be in the semi's.

Bad slip up from Everton. Didn't see that one coming, a lifeline for Liverpool though. Steven Reid was outstanding, as was David Thompson. Pity we don't swap Nunez for Thompson.

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Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo

if you get an easy tie next round (eg winners of PSV-Monaco or Werder-Lyon) you could well be in the semi's.

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I'd prefer to face Inter Milan, or any of the english sides before Lyon. Lyon are sh*t hot at the moment and are serious dark horses for the CL. They're scoring goals for fun.

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

Well they go from looking like world beaters at home to being absolutely clueless away every two weeks or so. I'm beginning to have my doubts about Benitez, he doesn't seem to be able to motivate the team, and his tactics away from home are absolutely shocking. As bad as the injury list is and as average as some of the players are, they should still be able to get results away from home. Man for man they are better than Everton in almost every department, yet as a team they don't come close.

Benitez has them going into every away game with a negative attitude. They make no attempt to win away from home, it's all defend with this one-man-up-front rubbish. They're then losing games by the odd goal more often than not, and from set-pieces and stupid individual mistakes. It's the same thing game after game, has Benitez not learned anything since the start of the season? This season has been a complete disaster and is as bad, if not worse, than anytime when Houllier was in charge. They'll go into the Bayer game on wednesday with the same attitude as all the other away games, so i'm not expecting to progress to the next round at this stage.

If Liverpool fail to qualify for the CL, it'll set the club back by about 2 years. Basically we are screwed. Our only saving grace now are the sales of Baros, Diouf and Gerrard, and with the rubbish the latter is serving up at the moment, we might not even get the £35m that everyone says we'll get. To be honest, Liverpool don't deserve to qualify for the CL anyway cos they have been abysmal on their travels this season. It's Everton's to throw away now.

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Agree with most of what you've said there 4, but to start doubting Rafa only has a knock on effect and that mindset can't be allowed to dominate in Liverpool supporters minds. The man IS proven and has to be allowed to stamp his own mark on the club, with a couple of years given to him to achieve this. Yes, we may fall behind in the short term and the cash injection might not come from CL football next season, but Rome wasn't built in a day as they say and more to the point , Man*re's dominance didn't happen over night either. Managers need time to adapt as much as players do to a new country and club. Judging by the adoration(bordering on Palestinian proportions!) on the streets of Cardiff last weekend, this will thankfully be granted.

The lingering circus that surrounds Gerrard is like a bad cough at this stage. London reporters in particular are having a field day and IMHO, they will have their way and get him a move to the Blue Sh*te of the South in the summer. Many supporters won't be sorry and i'm guessing some of the players will echo their sentiments. Liverpool have won more points on average without SG in the team and yet the media still love to glorify him by denouncing Liverpool as a 'one man team'. Igor Biscan showed in glimpses y'day what a central midfielder should do when on the ball, but strangely enough gets less of a rating in most papers than 'Mr.Liverpool' himself! The lad can do no wrong in the media's eyes, but he sure can let himself down when it comes to doing what an intelligent footballer and captain should be doing i.e capable of keeping the ball, leading by example, bringing the best out of other players, and not mouthing off after every poor result.

In the case of Steven Gerrard whats good for Everton is good for Liverpool. He should be allowed walk down the same road as his fat friend and join one of the darkside. Then, Liverpool can start thinking of challenging the elite again.