Referees

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Originally Posted by eamo1

Dont care what anyone says here im still thinking of packing it in.

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Aw dont do that

Im a "nerd" when it comes to football and could talk alot about tactics and rules,but i do have a life so i dont talk at all:).Wish there was a way could show you i know more about it then you but i couldnt be ar*ed to be honest.It doesnt matter anyway.

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Originally Posted by eamo1

Dont care what anyone says here im still thinking of packing it in.As i said been a season ticket holder for 9 years and just cant take the constant anger and frustration i feel after most(not all) games.Ye have no idea what its like that you cant even look forward to your teams game anymore because in the back of your mind you know your gonna feel worse at the end of it.And i know we(galway utd) are where we are for MANY other reasons.Thats not the point,the point is a REAL fan of an e.l club is 70% sure this will be his last season due not to the football but to the officating.

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This is my point Eamo1. A TRUE football fan will always (after the dust settles) acknowledge that the reason for a defeat is that the better team won. What is killing the game is very poor officials deciding the outcome. If each team got or lost 5 significant decisions a season, well that is just human nature and it balances out. What we have here is beyond belief.

Face it people...........we weren't up to it. Murphs may have been fouled but his acrobatics made it look like a dive. Most people on here, irrespective of their club, agree that there is a very low standard of refereeing. We all know that so why expect anything else? The only consolation is that the refs are equally incompetent no matter who is playing.

at least in the premier division you have a slight chance of bad ref displays being looked at and highlighted the standard in first division is just as bad if not worst.

Won't actually say anything about the ref and linesman in particular but quote from Shels forum from someone who was at game sums it up nicely

"Special mention to the linsman!!
ALL Shels fans should buy that man a drink next time he's in Tolka Smile"

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Originally Posted by eamo1

Dont care what anyone says here im still thinking of packing it in.As i said been a season ticket holder for 9 years and just cant take the constant anger and frustration i feel after most(not all) games.Ye have no idea what its like that you cant even look forward to your teams game anymore because in the back of your mind you know your gonna feel worse at the end of it.And i know we(galway utd) are where we are for MANY other reasons.Thats not the point,the point is a REAL fan of an e.l club is 70% sure this will be his last season due not to the football but to the officating.

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Cry me a river :rolleyes: Are you sure you're thinking of quitting because the standard of officials is poor (is it worse than 7 years ago even?), or is it because Galway are heading for relegation? If Galway were flying high on the back of some dodgy decisions, or even if the ref had given 3 undeserved penalties to let Galway beat UCD last weekend would you be on here spouting the same drivel about quitting the league as you are here? If that's the way you feel then you know where the door is to be honest, we have two part time leagues after all, what standard do you expect?

Just to set the record straight,ive been a fan for the last 11 years,season ticker holder for last 9.Most of those years were spent in the 1st division,ive seen us get relgated twice before in those 11 odd years and NOT walked away.I really had though that when we got to the premier league this time that ref standards would have improved and wouldnt suffer the same amount.IMO it has gotten WORSE,not better.So im NOT walking out coz we MIGHT get relagated.Doesnt matter anyway.

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Originally Posted by jebus

Cry me a river :rolleyes: Are you sure you're thinking of quitting because the standard of officials is poor (is it worse than 7 years ago even?), or is it because Galway are heading for relegation? If Galway were flying high on the back of some dodgy decisions, or even if the ref had given 3 undeserved penalties to go Galway to beat UCD last weekend would you be on here spouting the same drivel about quitting the league as you are here? If that's the way you feel then you know where the door is to be honest, we have two part time leagues after all, what standard do you expect?

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It will remain sub-standard if people at the top have the same attitude as you.Apathy towards referees incompotence should not be tolerated.
To say that we have 2 part time leagues is incorrect.In the premier League 8/12 teams are currently full time.
At a time when the LOI is going as professional as at can,why should the referees be left out of it?

Two questions, one in general and one to yourself if you feel like coming back into this thread eamo

1) What standard do people expect from referees in a part time league? I'm not saying they are in any way good at what they do, but every club in every league have problems with their officials (except maybe AC Milan). Now if a cash cow like La Liga or the Premiership can't get it right what do you expect the eircom League to have?

2) Would you be thinking of quitting if poor referee decisions had put Galway in the top 5 this year eamo?

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Originally Posted by jebus

1) What standard do people expect from referees in a part time league? I'm not saying they are in any way good at what they do, but every club in every league have problems with their officials (except maybe AC Milan). Now if a cash cow like La Liga or the Premiership can't get it right what do you expect the eircom League to have?

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Rubbish argument. No country have full times refs, and its hard to see how having them full time would improve them. Can't see what kind of training they could do (most are fit enough for the job). As it is, these lads are the best we have. if they're not good enouugh, imagine the rest below them?

However, anyone who thinks that referees are responsible for their league position is an idiot. None of the refs are biased. All make mistakes but thats all they are. I'd imagine they make less mistakes than every player on the pitch. Funny how no team that wins every complains about ref performances

your proberly best out of it eamo football is not for you.

If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And--which is more--you'll be a Man, my son!

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Rubbish argument. No country have full times refs, and its hard to see how having them full time would improve them. Can't see what kind of training they could do (most are fit enough for the job). As it is, these lads are the best we have. if they're not good enouugh, imagine the rest below them?

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I'm genuinely not giving out (too much) about the standard we have, it's about the same as the standard of play in the leagues. That said they do sometimes get the basics wrong, example being in Limerick's loss to Longford recently. Our centre back Danagher played a terrible back pass that went into the path of a Longford forward coming back from an attack. The Longford forward was the last man but the linesman flagged him offside, despite it being our player that played him through. I'm not expecting miracles in asking they know the basics to be fair

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Originally Posted by Conor H

It will remain sub-standard if people at the top have the same attitude as you.Apathy towards referees incompotence should not be tolerated.
To say that we have 2 part time leagues is incorrect.In the premier League 8/12 teams are currently full time.
At a time when the LOI is going as professional as at can,why should the referees be left out of it?

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******** Conor and you know it, how you still have this 'let's pretend everything is okay and it will be' is beyond me at this stage. It won't all be alright if we wish it extra hard, I thought the Galway full time experiment would have thought you that. Apathy towards referees incompotence shouldn't be tolerated, but neither should this blinkered LoI view that makes this forum, and the viewpoints of a lot of it's posters, seem more
ridiculous with each passing thread. We're not a full time league, we won't be a full time league for at least 15 years, the current full time clubs are struggling, and the debate about things like referee decisions should have some basis in reality

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Originally Posted by jebus

Two questions, one in general and one to yourself if you feel like coming back into this thread eamo

1) What standard do people expect from referees in a part time league? I'm not saying they are in any way good at what they do, but every club in every league have problems with their officials (except maybe AC Milan). Now if a cash cow like La Liga or the Premiership can't get it right what do you expect the eircom League to have?

2) Would you be thinking of quitting if poor referee decisions had put Galway in the top 5 this year eamo?

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Take me home in a wheelbarrow.

If you watch the game without the new compulsory Andy Gray's sunglasses, you have to know that the standard of officials is below what an ordinary lover of the game would accept. If loads of home AND away fans see an incident from the stands, why can't the officials in the middle of things see it too????

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Rubbish argument. No country have full times refs, and its hard to see how having them full time would improve them. Can't see what kind of training they could do (most are fit enough for the job). As it is, these lads are the best we have. if they're not good enouugh, imagine the rest below them?

However, anyone who thinks that referees are responsible for their league position is an idiot. None of the refs are biased. All make mistakes but thats all they are. I'd imagine they make less mistakes than every player on the pitch. Funny how no team that wins every complains about ref performances

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Just need to address one factually incorrect bit there Dodge - the Premiership and Football League Referees Panels in England are all Full-Time Contracted Officials - all they do is train and attend meetings on games when not refereeing

Fair enough (and the meetings thing should be of benefit too)

What type of training do they do?

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Originally Posted by jebus

1) What standard do people expect from referees in a part time league?

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Non farcical would be nice.

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Originally Posted by razor

Non farcical would be nice.

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True, but what the Galway fans are complaining about here (and what others have complained about before) are subjective decisions taken in the blink of an eye, some they get right, some they don't, blaming them for your teams poor performance has always been part and parcel of the game, but blaming them for driving you away from the sport is ridiculous.

The basics they should get right, and one or two of them should be removed from the panel as they seem to love the negative attention a bad decision brings, but other than that we can't ask for more

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Originally Posted by jebus

True, but what the Galway fans are complaining about here are subjective decisions taken in the blink of an eye, some they get right, some they don't

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You should also note that in this instance, it appears the ref got every major call right. Yet they're still decried as incompetent. That's the bit that annoys me most. (And I haven't reffed since doing Superleague to earn a fwe bob in my final year in college)

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

You should also note that in this instance, it appears the ref got every major call right. Yet they're still decried as incompetent. That's the bit that annoys me most. (And I haven't reffed since doing Superleague to earn a fwe bob in my final year in college)

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Yeah I saw the video alright Stu, would agree that the ref got the decisions correct in this case and it is highly annoying that people still think it's okay to have a pop at them just because their team lost

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Originally Posted by Dodge

What type of training do they do?

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Sight Training?

Refs are very poor in eircom league
I dont expect refs and assistants refs to get every decision right (humans make mistakes) but some of the decisons they have gotten wrong in the past are beyond belif, also they are not consientant enough in games, I have seen players get sent off for woeful tackle, and 5 mins later another player does not get booked for the same type of tackle.

full time refs only in the UK...............also Spain, Italy, Holland and Germany (assistants are not full time)......being full time would make all the difference but the league could not afford it

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Originally Posted by Trainee

Refs are very poor in eircom league
I dont expect refs and assistants refs to get every decision right (humans make mistakes) but some of the decisons they have gotten wrong in the past are beyond belif, also they are not consientant enough in games, I have seen players get sent off for woeful tackle, and 5 mins later another player does not get booked for the same type of tackle.

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Yes indeed humans do make mistakes as can be pointed out from your post's spelling and gramatical errors... but we won't crucify you over it!;)

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Fair enough (and the meetings thing should be of benefit too)

What type of training do they do?

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Each Referee has a specific fitness training plan tailored to their individual needs. Each works with a Polar watch which monitors heart rate etc..These are worn at every training session and also for every game and the results of session and game are downloaded and forwarded to each their fitness coach who analyses the info. All top players do this also.

They also work and train with a Sports Psychologist on mental preparation. How best to deal with conflict situations, Strong Body Language, how they deal with performing in front of a live TV audience of millions.

Each Prem league ground and most championship grounds have Pro Zone and each official is given a Pro Zone DVD of each game which monitors there movements, running style, how far from the ball they are, angles which they have of specific big decisions.

That is just some of the training the Prem League guys do. The EL refs are similar in what hey do minus the pro zone part.

Other countries have full time match officials but those would be a selection of the larger countries such as Spain, France, England. It is also important to note that these Associations will interview officials individually as per the norm before employing somebody.

Countries of similar size to ours offer fulltime employment to specific Match Officials. Holland and Norway have some of their international Referees employed full time to train and develop but also to host seminars and recruit young referees. Other countries will buy some time from a referees employer so as to free up the referee to attend midweek seminars and workshops all geared towards consistent decision making

Just some background on other associations!:ball:

Possibly the most informative post ever on these boards.

Cheers

afaik - the Norwegians aren't full time - I know that both Hauge and Ovrebo still work (as a Hospital Manager and a Psychologist respectively).

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Originally Posted by Copa Mundial

They also work and train with a Sports Psychologist on mental preparation. How best to deal with conflict situations, Strong Body Language, how they deal with performing in front of a live TV audience of millions.

That is just some of the training the Prem League guys do. The EL refs are similar in what hey do minus the pro zone part.

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And surely they don't bother with the old performing in front of millions on TV bit either!

We won tonight, and they ref (Buttimer) was crap. Some seriously bizarre decisions. At one stage he over-ruled the linesman on a throw in. The lino was 2 feet away and got the decision correct. Buttimer was 20 feet away and couldn't have seen it right. They all missed an attempted punch to the head on Jorgensen by Nigel Keady while Jorgensen was tying his boot laces. I lost count of the amount of unpunished tackles from behind by both teams.
Something has to done about these idiots.:mad:

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Originally Posted by GuisaSaigon

We won tonight, and they ref (Buttimer) was crap. Some seriously bizarre decisions. At one stage he over-ruled the linesman on a throw in. The lino was 2 feet away and got the decision correct. Buttimer was 20 feet away and couldn't have seen it right. They all missed an attempted punch to the head on Jorgensen by Nigel Keady while Jorgensen was tying his boot laces. I lost count of the amount of unpunished tackles from behind by both teams.
Something has to done about these idiots.:mad:

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So, how far away were you? Ever thought you and the Asst. Ref may have got it wrong and the ref got it right? Maybe by being 15/20 feet away was an advantage to the ref and he had an over all better angle and may have been correct. Ever thought of that?:ball:

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Originally Posted by Copa Mundial

So, how far away were you? Ever thought you and the Asst. Ref may have got it wrong and the ref got it right? Maybe by being 15/20 feet away was an advantage to the ref and he had an over all better angle and may have been correct. Ever thought of that?:ball:

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If the other me and 700 people there didn't see it the same as the linesman I might have considered it but the ref clearly got it wrong but wanted to enforce his authority and over-rule the linesman.

You can bury your head in the sand all you like but the standard of refereeing is so bad at the moment that it is damaging the League.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Possibly the most informative post ever on these boards.

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Its amazing what a weekend away in London will do for you ;)

How does Robbie Doyle get away with wearing long white socks over his tights every week,it dosent look like he wears the the blacks socks

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Originally Posted by Réiteoir

I know that both Hauge and Ovrebo still work (as a Hospital Manager and a Psychologist respectively).

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Getting the help you need huh? ;)

Just on the subject of referees the Indo website now has stats for the League of Ireland. Referee stats can be found here: http://statscentre.independent.ie/?L...r=Comp_Referee

Buttimer has been in charge of the most games, Hancock and Kelly hand out the most yellows and Hanney, Kelly and McKeown like to dish out the reds.

Geographical breakdown.
Buttimer, Kelly - Cork
Connolly, Doyle, Hancock, Hanney, McKeon, Stokes, Tomney, Tuite - Dublin
Gough - Limerick
Sutton - Clare
Whoriskey - Meath

good to see Winters bottom of the pile, where he belongs ;)

Compared to the Swedish league it's interesting how much lower the number of yellows is.

how our ref picked for each game? we often have a fourth official from Wexford who in theory could end up referring the game i know unlikely but you never know.
few strange decisions as fourth official my fav was Wallace was wearing a black top we where playing in black and asked to cover rightly so but so was opposition manager and he was not asked to cover up one of many examples

the same fourth official was ref at u20 game v Cork and made numerous bad decisions. not for first time been ref at one of our under 20 games how is this allowed as he is from Wexford