How would promotion/relegation work here with 16 teams? playoffs from regional sections?
We only have 7 extra teams from the current EL one. Could we get more in to make a first division?
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How would promotion/relegation work here with 16 teams? playoffs from regional sections?
We only have 7 extra teams from the current EL one. Could we get more in to make a first division?
Personally I think it is a bad idea. It would be of more benifit to the league as a whole for all teams to be put into the one pot for a couple of seasons to give them a chance to improve their faciliites through the extra income that teams would make from the bigger clubs visiting them once a season.
After a couple of seasons we could sit down again and look through improvements clubs have made on attendance and infrastructure and decide the best way to split the league again from there
I dont think having all teams in one pot would necessarily increase income that much, especiall when you've 16 teams with nothing to play for basically.
Absolutely against a 10-team league, I don't want to be playing the same teams every couple of weeks. The prospects of playing the likes of UCD and Bray 6 times next season, including cup games does nothing for the league. Don't fancy having to go to Dalyer, Cork, Derry, UCD twice next year either. It's overkill, and we're bound to lose at least one, if not two games against them. This year, we only have to go once, barring cup games. It's very hard for fans to go to, and part-time players to play 50 games a season in all competitions. Then there's postponements. Re-scheduling games will be a nightmare.
It would increase it above the levels we are at down here at the moment despite trying everything off the field.
I am on the radio 5 days a week, have given out 200 free season tickets for under 16s, we put up 200 posters a week. After all this all you get is an average of 400 every home game and from ones that don't go its I would go down there if you were playing a better team like Cork, Rovers etc.
There is miniscule travelling support in the first division. Other than Dundalk and Shels we probably have the biggest travelling support every week and that doesn't top 30 other than travelling to Longford and Galway. Bigger clubs bring more people and attract the sunshiners just going down to have a look.
Maybe if the FAI looked into giving CPOs across the board then we might be able to do something but without extra income our hands are tied. We are hosting an intercultural / equality evening for the Limerick 37 game next month hopefully that will have an effect in the community.
BR i feel for you the Irish sporting public possess an appetite for live sport, we have a terrible culture here. We have a lovely footballing team the past few seasons and while this season are crowds are ok overall we still could have seen an improvement. FAI don't help things with these type decisions they now cater for only a few clubs and their friends. Provincial are now seen as a waste of time, the time will come with these clubs don't have a stich and it will be too late as there will have been to much damage done to the country clubs.
Similar thread going on here ...
http://srfcultrasforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6670
including this opinion that I agree strongly with
"The 10 team premier is driven by greed, so called "big clubs" looking for more derby type games to help cover the wages they cant afford. Id prefer a 16 team premier with big polulation centers of Waterford, Limerick and Galway all guarenteed to be kept up for five years to begin with. They could then focus on building club structures rather than the promotion / survival rat race. Football in this country would be better for it at the end of the 5 years."
and IMO I'd add that Ollie was a big driver of the 10 team league for obvious reasons ...
10 team league is boring, I prefer more teams and more wins against the weeker teams, than watching tight, niggly games all the time is boring.
bhs
Get the FAI out of the league, they're the problem.
Well said that man.Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD
Personally I think the country has too far too few eloi clubs for two divisions to be run out of. I would like to see a 16 team premier and maybe 2 eight team divisions in the first. say a north and south or east/west to go easy on their travel expenses. Or if not then a 22 team league for 5 years and see how it gets on.
Playing teams four times is a pain in the hole...
Very bad idea switching to 10 team premier division!!i no alot of teams are struggling financially atm but you have to look at the knock on effect that will have..if some of those teams where to drop down attendances will be poor...look at us..shels would bring the biggest crowd to oriel...no other team brings away support in the first division!Some of these teams are aslo outnumbered by our own support when we play away e.g. monaghan!!! It will also be harder for smaller teams to ever experience the premier div atmosphere as the same teams will be going up and down each year making it very boring to follow!!;)
Play your games on something more reasonable than a Thursday and you'll get away fans coming to Oriel. About time the FAI put an end to the farce of allowing Dundalk dictate when they want to playQuote:
Originally Posted by Black and White
8 and 10 team leagues totally killed attendances in the north in the mid 90's, playing each other 4 times in the league was just boring. Remember Portadown bringing out a corporate booklet and predicting average attendances of 4000, they'd have been lucky to have averaged 1500 in the 1996 championship winning season.
16 team premier in the south with 3 relegation spots and 3 regional feeder leagues.
Major problem with that is no one wants to enter them.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnaghRed
At present, a 16-team Premier would leave six other clubs plus three A League clubs. There's an ad out again for more A League clubs next year, but I'd be surprised if they got more than one or two, if any.
So how many fan's do limerick take to all the clubs that don't play on a Thursday?Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
Maybe the lack of ambition is due to the current set-up though? Have any of the junior clubs said why they can't be bothered entering the A-League?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
minimum of 30 but usually around the 50-60 mark, sometimes rising to 70-80. I wasn't there but I think we had around the 60 mark in Tolka on Friday, other examples we have had this season is 80 in Morton Stadium on our only visit there, but we dropped to about 35 for MonaghanQuote:
Originally Posted by Louth4sam
Major divisions between junior and senior football in the country. Most junior clubs are happy where they are and many actively dislike the senior set up. Just ask the Limerick fans, for example!Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnaghRed
Do you want to see me cry, is that what you want?!?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
:)
think this is a good idea with one team dropping out until sixteen are left then two well run regional leagues with no massive fines, no licensing and no fai buracuary to frighten potential new teams , only when they get promoted should all the crap kick in.Quote:
Originally Posted by jinxy lilywhite
I believe the majority of clubs and supporters want something along these lines.
Not sure I'd go with regional leagues on reflection - an expanded first with 3 up 3 down from the premier to sit below the premier. I'd go a straight 3 down from the premier and have the play offs 3-6 of the first. It would give clubs a realistic chance of promotion (which is one of the major issues in the first imo - too many clubs start off knowing they haven't a hope of promotion), and also give relegated clubs a realistic chance of bouncing back so no need to spend crazy to survive.
I agree that more promotion spots are needed. Next year in a 12 team first division there will only be one automatic promotion spot. If the premier division team win the playoff, then one club getting promoted from 12 is just not enough!Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
-When will the FAI realise that the big clubs need the small clubs.
-In the short term a 10 team professional league would be fantastic for irish football. The League of ireland/ FAI might get a team into the Champions league groups and everybody would say 'look how far irish football has progressed' well done ye!
-In the long term the league would become predictable, repetitive and thus boring. And when the 'power league', due to its uniformity, starts to falter and expansion is needed there will a short list of clubs to choose from as they will either have gone bust or now not have the finanical clout to make an impression as they will have rotted away in the pit that is the first division.
am not sure promotion should start right away ,for the first five years there should be great prize money to allow clubs to build for the time when they are capable of maintaining a premiership team/club without fear of overspending and falling foul of licensing. there can be relagation from the premiership to get to the 16 team. one thing i heard over the years is this "a rising tide lifts all boats" that was a margeret tatcher philosipy and it was only good for the big boats.
I flew actually .Were you actually at the game or are you just churning out the usual pathethic cliches we hear from Cork city fans all the time ?Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
Here we are discussing poor attendances and ways of increasing crowds and you want to remove the flexibility that has allowed one club to maintain a reasonable level of support. Dundalk have tried Friday, Saturday and Sunday kickoffs only to revert back to thursdays each time. This "it doesn't suit away support" is a proven load of bull.Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
Oh I'm sorry, for you see when the Dundalk fan I replied to you, the one complaining about there never being any away fans in Oriel, said that there is never any away fans at Oriel I took is as being true. What figures do you have to prove that he was either a) lying, or b) that it hasn't affected away supportQuote:
Originally Posted by SMorgan
What ya on about. We've alway played on a thursday night for the last 15 years actually even more. I was at the Limerick game when ye guys played and there wasn't even 10 Limerick supporters. Thats even including your substitutes and you didn't have much more in your home tie as well. For a so called "sport mad city" they don't get behind their home soccer team.Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
Anyteam can object to the scheduling of their away games. Cobh went for years having us play in Oriel on a Sunday Afternoon.
Thursday night matches have no affect on away support. The teams we play in the first have no travelling support(with the exception of Shelbourne). As was point out earlier by one of my brethern we did try to move our home games to Friday and Saturday night and the home attendences dropped. Away gates never increased as a result.Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
No way it's 15 years since Dundalk moved to Thursdays, and the reasoning at the time was to be able to hold birthday parties in the bar, nothing to do with it attracting more fans.
Two questions though, what game did we play with 10 people watching, including substitutes? And what home game were you at that we barely had more than 10 people?Quote:
Originally Posted by jinxy lilywhite
Posts like yours almost make me happy Galway were promoted ahead of Dundalk
I know you don't mean that! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
Yes it is true that we moved to Thursdays to make use of the club bar for functions. So what? Its much needed revenue for the club. I know this doesnt suit away fans it doesnt even suit me as i live in Dublin but we have to do whats best for Dundalk FC and that's what we're doing.
What Jinxy said is true though, of all the days we've tried Thursdays do get the best home attendance with away attendance not really affected with what day its held.
I really don't care what Dundalk need to do for money, I just take issue with Dundalk fans coming on here mouthing about their being no away support in the First Division when their club actively go out of their way to make it harder for away supporters to get to a gameQuote:
Originally Posted by Louth4sam
I agree, by creating a 10 team premier were only widening the gulf between the bigger and smaller clubs. Maybe some short term gains, but not good for the league in the long termQuote:
Originally Posted by redobit
Well there is no away support in the first division, doesn't matter what day of the week you hold a game. If we held games on a Friday do you think that away attendances would shoot up? How many away fans do limerick get at their home matches playing on a Friday night (apart from Dundalk and Shels)?Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
I'd be surprised if anybody in the first division other than Shels would bring more than 50 supporters to Dundalk no matter what day or time we played our matches.
I really hate the ten team league, it's too small IMO. Four times a season is too much and I don't see see any short or long-term benefits in terms of finances or attendances or anything but they can just keep on making this league harder to support... it's not like attendances can get a great deal worse.
The average attendance in the premier divison probably will go up next year (especially if UCD go down) but it will only be because of getting rid of the weaker teams. It's very likely that either ourselves or Shels will go up increasing the average due to level of support for both teams. The FAI will then turn around and tell people how great they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevo Da Gull
At the same time, the first division will be bigger than ever and clubs that would have struggled to gain support, will be in a worse position stuck in the graveyard. The 10 team league is just a way for the self professed 'elite clubs' to close off the premier divison to other clubs.
We should be trying to spread premier divison football to other areas of the coutry by increasing the number of clubs in the division, not decreasing them!
Fair point, there are short-term benefits but as you say no long-term benefits... maybe in 3 or 4 years they will switch back to 12 teams or they'll just go for the middle ground with an eleven team league.
Nail on the head. Certain clubs feel they shouldn't have to lower themselves to play the likes of UCD, Cobh and Harps. That is the driving motivation behind the 10 team premier.Quote:
The 10 team league is just a way for the self professed 'elite clubs' to close off the premier divison to other clubs.
The FAI are in charge now, not the clubs. It's up to them whether we go to a 10 team premier or not, its up to them to make sure its the best decision, even if it means upsetting the 'big' clubs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
I still think 10 is better than 12 though, the 3 games thing wrecks my head