Euro 2012 Scotland Ireland?

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

See there is a middle ground. Your first point is right your second point does not. Many countries get awarded tournaments when their stadiums are not finished etc. I agree its too late for planning etc but if a stadium is under construction and is due to be finished 2 years before the tournament, UEFA would be totally happy with that. LR would be viable. Croke Park is another issue.

The only way Ireland could step in with Scotland is to only provide 2 stadiums, 1 being LR and the other being Croke Park, but there would have to be prior agreement with the GAA.

However, Spain and Italy are ahead of us on this so one of those will get it, unless politics really comes into it and Taylor manges to get a vote in favour of Scotland.

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Spain and Italy are ahead of us, but UEFA seem to be favouring the smaller nations and yes if the tournament is expanded, there is not going to be another chance of it happening.

Also due to the timescale your large stadiums would need to be complete,or construction well underway.

UEFA visited Croke Park and were hugely impressed and would be prepared to host a champions league final if it was put forward, so it would be a case of over to you GAA.

In fairness to the GAA they have been very good since opening the stadium and have allowed friendly matches, not that they are doing it for the money.

76,000 seats @ E250 per seat equals €19m gate receipts for a Euro 2012 final plus other revenues, 20% of that may just be very tempting

and the reason id love to see it here is apart from not having to qualify, i just love a party:D

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Originally Posted by Greenforever

In fairness to the GAA they have been very good since opening the stadium and have allowed friendly matches, not that they are doing it for the money.

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Brilliant post.

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Originally Posted by boovidge

I don't see why hosting a football tournament would convince the Scottish public that breaking up the UK would be the best route to go down. Although there was a surge in Scottish nationalism after the release of Braveheart so you might be right! ;)

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Yes if Braveheart can have that effect, think of what hosting a Championships would do for Scotland. Just look at England at Euro 96 and the return of the Georges Cross and away from the Union Jack.

Think about what nationalism is. It feeds into sport but it is also the ability of your country to stand onthe world stage and say we are different and capable and have the ability to host things of a world class nature. All this would feed into an extra sense of nationalism amongst the Scotttish people. I would have thought that this was pretty obvious. Make no doubt about it, Alex Salmond is well aware of this and I know for fact that the SNP will be seriously pushing this.

There are so many things wrong with this.

Scotland won't go near the FAI about looking to co-host after the shambolic bid the last time. If they want to co-host, Wales would be a much more sensible option.

Three years isn't anything close to enough time to build the (minimum) two extra stadia for the tournament from scratch. How long did Lansdowne take?

UEFA won't go near a Scotland-Ireland co-hosting bid after being shown empty fields (that still don't have a stadium on them) on their last visit. Even ignoring that, with the short notice, UEFA will go for a country with all the stadia already in place: Germany, Spain, Italy, France or England. If this bid runs into trouble, they won't be able to take any chances with a replacement bid.

Do you actually believe the GAA would give up the use of Croke Park for basically the entire month of June to promote European football? They played a low profile Championship game there before the Serbia friendly just to ensure that they had the first event of the summer there.

Someone mentioned us part hosting the rugby World Cup as a plus point. We hosted a few games which were basically just the Ireland home games. Ireland had no involvement in the organisation of the tournament.

If we can prove we can handle the Uefa Cup final in the new Lansdowne maybe we can show have learned from the Lansdowne riots.

Four 10,000 seater stadiums would be enough for the U21 Championships which would prove our commitment to Uefa.

We hosted the U-19s a few years ago. Anyone know if UEFA were impressed or not?

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Originally Posted by Schumi

There are so many things wrong with this.

Scotland won't go near the FAI about looking to co-host after the shambolic bid the last time. If they want to co-host, Wales would be a much more sensible option.

Three years isn't anything close to enough time to build the (minimum) two extra stadia for the tournament from scratch. How long did Lansdowne take?

UEFA won't go near a Scotland-Ireland co-hosting bid after being shown empty fields (that still don't have a stadium on them) on their last visit. Even ignoring that, with the short notice, UEFA will go for a country with all the stadia already in place: Germany, Spain, Italy, France or England. If this bid runs into trouble, they won't be able to take any chances with a replacement bid.

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What 2 extra stadium


Hampden

Celtic Park

Ibrox

Murryfield

Pittodrie (22,800 at the moment can easily be renovated to 30,000)


Croke Park

Lansdowne Road


So that leaves one stadium that needs to be renovated and that could be either 1 in Dundee or Edinburgh would all need about 10,000 extra to their capcity.

As I said earlier I don't think it will go to Scotland or Ireland but some of the reasons above or bogus and not factually correct.

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Originally Posted by pete

Do you actually believe the GAA would give up the use of Croke Park for basically the entire month of June to promote European football? They played a low profile Championship game there before the Serbia friendly just to ensure that they had the first event of the summer there.

Someone mentioned us part hosting the rugby World Cup as a plus point. We hosted a few games which were basically just the Ireland home games. Ireland had no involvement in the organisation of the tournament.

If we can prove we can handle the Uefa Cup final in the new Lansdowne maybe we can show have learned from the Lansdowne riots.

Four 10,000 seater stadiums would be enough for the U21 Championships which would prove our commitment to Uefa.

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Pete we have had one incident in how many years.

How many riots have happened in Poland, Italy, England, Holland, Germany, Slovakia and many many other places.

Your post makes sense but this idea that they would deem Ireland incapable of policing a match between two international teams does not stand up to scrutiny. Other countires have had way more hooligan incidents over the last 30 years or whatever time frame you would like to put on it.

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Your post makes sense but this idea that they would deem Ireland incapable of policing a match between two international teams does not stand up to scrutiny. Other countires have had way more hooligan incidents over the last 30 years or whatever time frame you would like to put on it.

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We have track record in handling large crowds with potential for trouble. We have never hosted a match between 2 visiting teams.

Compare us to Poland who were awarded the tournament and see how we stand up.

Could people stop deluding themselves, please. I mean, seriously, we haven't even got a stadium worthy of the name to hold our domestic cup final in and people want to go running off to UEFA to offer them more pie in the sky nonsense. What is it with this country ? All fur coat and no knickers, as the old saying goes.

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Originally Posted by TonyD

All fur coat and no knickers, as the old saying goes.

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Yup, just there for the big events and glory days.

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

What 2 extra stadium
Hampden
Celtic Park
Ibrox
Murryfield
Pittodrie (22,800 at the moment can easily be renovated to 30,000)
Croke Park
Lansdowne Road

So that leaves one stadium that needs to be renovated and that could be either 1 in Dundee or Edinburgh would all need about 10,000 extra to their capcity.

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It has been repeatedly stated that UEFA don't want three stadia in the same city so only two of Hampden, Parkhead and Ibrox can be used.

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Originally Posted by superfrank

We hosted the U-19s a few years ago. Anyone know if UEFA were impressed or not?

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U16s. And there's a massive difference

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Originally Posted by Schumi

It has been repeatedly stated that UEFA don't want three stadia in the same city so only two of Hampden, Parkhead and Ibrox can be used.

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I have been told no to something by women and with a bit of persuasion you can end up getting what you want. So one should never take no for an answer.

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

I have been told no to something by women and with a bit of persuasion you can end up getting what you want. So one should never take no for an answer.

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We're not exactly in a strong bargaining position in the first place though. In an emergency situation, a big country who could host it without building anything new would be miles ahead of us.

Either was I. But yeah as I have said before I don't think we will be given it. THat is not to say that it could not happen.

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Originally Posted by DaveyCakes

That's 3 cities. Not a chance in hell without at least 3 or 4 more.



How is it irrelevant? It's very relevant.



One of the first stipulations from UEFA will be that no other events will take place in any of the grounds for the duration of the torunament and for probably 2 or 3 weeks beforehand.

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While I'm not saying that it will go ahead or should go ahead, the idea of Croker not being used by the GAA during June isn't too unrealistic. After this summer it is unlikely that anything other than Leinster Finals will be held in Croker. The provincial grounds are in fine fettle.

Threads like this make me laugh.

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Originally Posted by pete

We have track record in handling large crowds with potential for trouble. We have never hosted a match between 2 visiting teams.

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And in fairness how many matches have Poland or Ukraine held between 2 visiting teams

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Originally Posted by TonyD

Could people stop deluding themselves, please. I mean, seriously, we haven't even got a stadium worthy of the name to hold our domestic cup final in and people want to go running off to UEFA to offer them more pie in the sky nonsense. What is it with this country ? All fur coat and no knickers, as the old saying goes.

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OUr domestic cup final is lucky to attract a crowd of 10,000 so thats a load of crap.

Croke Park is one of the top half dozen stadiums in the world, and if you take corporate facilities as a major factor it is probably in the top 3.

Ownership of the stadiums is irrelevant as long as they are available.

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

I have been told no to something by women and with a bit of persuasion you can end up getting what you want. So one should never take no for an answer.

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Agreed

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Originally Posted by Schumi

We're not exactly in a strong bargaining position in the first place though. In an emergency situation, a big country who could host it without building anything new would be miles ahead of us.

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Very possible but if that was the case why isnt Euro 2008 in Spain and Euro 2012 given to Italy in the first place. (or replace with any of the major countries) EUEFA want to spread the games around.

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Originally Posted by Torn-Ado

Threads like this make me laugh.

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glad to give you a laugh, do you always take no for an answer:D seriously only if you go after anything might you actually get it

The Euros are much more likely to be given to England in the even that theyre taken from Ukraine and Poland. Great infrastructure and larger and more experienced security forces.

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Originally Posted by Greenforever

OUr domestic cup final is lucky to attract a crowd of 10,000 so thats a load of crap.

Croke Park is one of the top half dozen stadiums in the world, and if you take corporate facilities as a major factor it is probably in the top 3.

Ownership of the stadiums is irrelevant as long as they are available.

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It is one of the biggest but don't kid yourself that it is anywhere near the top stadiums in the world.

In no particular order - Wembley, Millenium stadium, Stade de France, Allianz Arena (Munich) Dortmund, Schalke, Amsterdam arena

Where Croke Park falls down IMO - half the fans are out in the rain, queues for refreshments are ridiculous even at the corporate level at the Italy rugby match I was queueing for the whole of half time to get a pint. I've never even bothered trying at half time in the main seats. You are also a long way from the action in the upper tiers although it is probably better for GAA. I had one of the worst seats in Dortmund and Munich and still had a great view. The Stadiums in Japan were also on a differen tlevel.

I haven't been to the Emirates yet or the Bernabeu for many years. I believe both are top class.

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Originally Posted by gspain

It is one of the biggest but don't kid yourself that it is anywhere near the top stadiums in the world.

In no particular order - Wembley, Millenium stadium, Stade de France, Allianz Arena (Munich) Dortmund, Schalke, Amsterdam arena

Where Croke Park falls down IMO - half the fans are out in the rain, queues for refreshments are ridiculous even at the corporate level at the Italy rugby match I was queueing for the whole of half time to get a pint. I've never even bothered trying at half time in the main seats. You are also a long way from the action in the upper tiers although it is probably better for GAA. I had one of the worst seats in Dortmund and Munich and still had a great view. The Stadiums in Japan were also on a differen tlevel.

I haven't been to the Emirates yet or the Bernabeu for many years. I believe both are top class.

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IMO it is definitley ahead of Stade de France and Amsterdam, having been in both. The millenium, i don't know about their corporate facilities. I was'nt over impressed with Yokohama.

Where it does score is it has I believe, more corporate boxes, permium level seats, which is where the major revenue is generated.

Wembly was falling down last time I was in it, but trust the new Wembley is up with the best, the others I've not been to.

The emirates modelled their corpoate facilities on Croker! Not ben there either.

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Originally Posted by Greenforever

IMO it is definitley ahead of Stade de France and Amsterdam, having been in both. The millenium, i don't know about their corporate facilities. I was'nt over impressed with Yokohama.

Where it does score is it has I believe, more corporate boxes, permium level seats, which is where the major revenue is generated.

Wembly was falling down last time I was in it, but trust the new Wembley is up with the best, the others I've not been to.

The emirates modelled their corpoate facilities on Croker! Not ben there either.

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It probably has more corporate boxes and seats etc but it is all quantity not quality where Croke Park wins. I'm not used to enjoying corporate hospitality but I imagine you don't queue for 15 minutes in a rugby scrum to get a drink in these venues. I then took one look at the food queue and decided I wasn't that hungry.

The corporate area in Croke Park is nice behind the seats but the rest is pretty drab.

I found the Amsterdam Arena to be very plush - more like a hotel behind the seats than a football stadium. Easy to get food and drink as well, no queues for the toilets. It is a lot smaller though.

Stade de France is poor for merchandise but reasonable for food and drink. I think the seats are much better and also has a better atmosphere.

I think Croek Park needs to double or treble the amount of food/drink outlets, it needs more toilets. It needs proper roof especially with the amount of rain we get. There was clearly a decision made as well to cram in more seats rather than give more room aka the new Wembley with individual seats, cup holders etc.

I think huge revenue potential is being lost.

I haven't even mention the American stadiums where they take it to another elvel regarding merchandising and refreshments. You don't even have to leave your seat.

Now this is all relative to the best stadiums in the world. Croke Park is still a fabulous venue and we are lucky to be able to rent it while Lansdowne is being re-developed.

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Originally Posted by Greenforever

OUr domestic cup final is lucky to attract a crowd of 10,000 so thats a load of crap.

Croke Park is one of the top half dozen stadiums in the world, and if you take corporate facilities as a major factor it is probably in the top 3.

Ownership of the stadiums is irrelevant as long as they are available.

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How is it a "load of crap" ? Are you saying we have a stadium fit to host our Cup Final ? What should be the showcase event of the domestic season. If you are, then I beg to disagree. Even for a crowd of 10,000 (and quite a few recent cup finals have drawn comfortably more than that) there's nothing there. Tolka and Dalymount have less than 10,000 seats and both are in a very bad state of repair in any event. Why not start with that as a realistic objective, say a 20,000 seater stadium fit for such an event ? Or how about improving the overall standard of grounds in the league here ? Or does your "we can do anything if we want" ethos not extend to the local game ?

But no, we want the glamour without the foundations, the glitz without the substance. Talking about the qualities of Croke Park is all very well (and the ownership might just be very relevant in this case, taking into account the track record of the owners when it comes to "foreign games") but even that and a revamped Landsdowne ( and can anyone be sure that will be finished on schedule ?) still only gives two stadia, and that's before you even look at the rest of the logistics involved.

Honestly, let's get our heads out of the clouds shall we ? We're like a spoilt child who only wants to live on ice cream, and doesn't want to be bothered with nasty vegetables. But as we all should know by now, living on ice cream alone will eventually make you very sick indeed.

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Originally Posted by Greenforever

Very possible but if that was the case why isnt Euro 2008 in Spain and Euro 2012 given to Italy in the first place. (or replace with any of the major countries) EUEFA want to spread the games around.

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Sure, but at short notice they won't be taking any chances.

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Originally Posted by TonyD

How is it a "load of crap" ? Are you saying we have a stadium fit to host our Cup Final ? What should be the showcase event of the domestic season. If you are, then I beg to disagree. Even for a crowd of 10,000 (and quite a few recent cup finals have drawn comfortably more than that) there's nothing there. Tolka and Dalymount have less than 10,000 seats and both are in a very bad state of repair in any event. Why not start with that as a realistic objective, say a 20,000 seater stadium fit for such an event ? Or how about improving the overall standard of grounds in the league here ? Or does your "we can do anything if we want" ethos not extend to the local game ?

But no, we want the glamour without the foundations, the glitz without the substance. Talking about the qualities of Croke Park is all very well (and the ownership might just be very relevant in this case, taking into account the track record of the owners when it comes to "foreign games") but even that and a revamped Landsdowne ( and can anyone be sure that will be finished on schedule ?) still only gives two stadia, and that's before you even look at the rest of the logistics involved.

Honestly, let's get our heads out of the clouds shall we ? We're like a spoilt child who only wants to live on ice cream, and doesn't want to be bothered with nasty vegetables. But as we all should know by now, living on ice cream alone will eventually make you very sick indeed.

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HAving a stadium fit to hold a match for 10K - 20K has nothing to do with a stadium holding 30K or 50K etc. They are 2 totally different things. I am fully behind any clubs ambitions to develop grounds etc or for FAi involvment in same. However there will never be a ground built to hold 50K plus just for an EL club, certainly not in the forseeable future.

You ask what should be the showpiece of the domestic season, the answer is the FAI cup final, but again nothing to do with hosting a major tournament.

As you should be aware Dalymount is due to be bulldozed and replaced with a state of the art stadium in Harristown, Drogs have just got planning permission for their new ground, the builders are back on site in Tallaght, so things are happening in the EL, but only thanks to people with the same YES WE CAN DO attitude that I have.


If you check the Lansdowne web site you'll see it is well on schedule.

Finally a successful bid for Ireland to part host would generate millions into FAI coffers which can help further develop the El and grassroots footballl etc.

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Originally Posted by Greenforever

HAving a stadium fit to hold a match for 10K - 20K has nothing to do with a stadium holding 30K or 50K etc. They are 2 totally different things. I am fully behind any clubs ambitions to develop grounds etc or for FAi involvment in same. However there will never be a ground built to hold 50K plus just for an EL club, certainly not in the forseeable future.

My point was, if we can't build a stadium for 10-20,000 how the hell are we going to come up with one for 30-50K.

You ask what should be the showpiece of the domestic season, the answer is the FAI cup final, but again nothing to do with hosting a major tournament.

You read that sentence wrong, it wasnt a question, just part of the statement I was making about the Cup Final

As you should be aware Dalymount is due to be bulldozed and replaced with a state of the art stadium in Harristown, Drogs have just got planning permission for their new ground, the builders are back on site in Tallaght, so things are happening in the EL, but only thanks to people with the same YES WE CAN DO attitude that I have.

I'm aware of all that, and it's all good news. But we've seen lovely models of new grounds before, which haven't materialised. I hope the new Bohs and Drogs grounds do happen. If and when they do, then let's look at the next step. I've nothing against a "Can Do" attitude either. My whole point is lets get things right from the bottom up. Crawl, walk, run.

If you check the Lansdowne web site you'll see it is well on schedule.

Maybe so, and the FAI looks like it will have to go into serious debt to finance it's share of it, according to latest media reports, either that or have the IRFU take over the whole thing. Again, you may say this is irrelevent to the stadium issue, but remember, it's the FAI who would have to put together any bid to host a major championship.

Finally a successful bid for Ireland to part host would generate millions into FAI coffers which can help further develop the El and grassroots footballl etc.

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It would also cost millions in the first place. I don't see how we could co-host with 2 stadia. 3/4 would surely be minimum. Where are the others coming from ?

Forget about stadia for a moment and consider other criteria. I read that its a UEFA requirement for a Champions League Final venue city to have 22,000 hotel rooms. I assume its the same for Euros matches with stadium capacities of 50,000+.

Dublin DOES NOT meet this criteria.

Maybe someone on here can confirm this.

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Originally Posted by stojkovic

Forget about stadia for a moment and consider other criteria. I read that its a UEFA requirement for a Champions League Final venue city to have 22,000 hotel rooms. I assume its the same for Euros matches with stadium capacities of 50,000+.

Dublin DOES NOT meet this criteria.

Maybe someone on here can confirm this.

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Moscow wouldn't have come close in hotel rooms.

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Originally Posted by stojkovic

Forget about stadia for a moment and consider other criteria. I read that its a UEFA requirement for a Champions League Final venue city to have 22,000 hotel rooms. I assume its the same for Euros matches with stadium capacities of 50,000+.

Dublin DOES NOT meet this criteria.

Maybe someone on here can confirm this.

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Dublin has well over 20,000 rooms, you will get a comprhemsive list in the be my guest guide as issued by the Irish Hotels Federation, you also have plenty of accomodation in UCD and DCU which is rented out commercially in the summer.

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Originally Posted by TonyD

It would also cost millions in the first place. I don't see how we could co-host with 2 stadia. 3/4 would surely be minimum. Where are the others coming from ?

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If we were to be awarded the games surely the coutry could develop two new stadiums to be used between all codes. Look at the amount of EL clubs and GAA counties looking to modernise etc.

Better spent then on tribunals and failed referndums etc.

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Originally Posted by Greenforever

Dublin has well over 20,000 rooms,

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Do you know this for a fact because I heard that Dublin hasnt. Im not doubting you. It also says 'hotel' rooms and not student dorms. They obviously allow for the fact that some fans will chose budget accom. like dorms, caravans and tents;)

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Originally Posted by stojkovic

Do you know this for a fact because I heard that Dublin hasnt. Im not doubting you. It also says 'hotel' rooms and not student dorms. They obviously allow for the fact that some fans will chose budget accom. like dorms, caravans and tents;)

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Almost 17,000 in 2007 with new hotels opening since then and extensions to existing hotels it is very close to 20,000. UCD accomodation are luxury apartments fully serviced, and pricy to rent in the summer, there are also plenty of short term rental apartments that would be included.

Unfortunately this is a non runner for us, the most realistic options imo would be Thomond Park and LR. Neither of which are currently available and Thomond wouldnt meet required standards. As much as I would dearly love Ireland to get to co host the tournament, we are a long way short infrastructrually. if any of ye have travelled to any sort of major european city from dublin, ye will have noticed the gulf in public transport. Dublin and Milan (Linate) are the only european cities that i can think off the top of my head that I have been to that the only transport available out of the airport is bus or taxi. That isnt good enough for cohosting a major european tournament.
I find it very hard to believe that the gaa would give the sole use of croker to football for 3/4 weeks and realistically to meet uefa requirements it would need to be solely used for football for this period.
So in reality all we have is LR. Not enough.

And on a separate point, what is this talk of a 20k stadium for cork city?? how is this going to be viable?

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Originally Posted by elroy

And on a separate point, what is this talk of a 20k stadium for cork city?? how is this going to be viable?

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I think 27k capacity was mentioned.

Secret plan