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No worries, no offence taken. I'm an optimist, I have watched every Irish game in the last x number years, so I must be one. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Greenforever
Anyway Stan was total crap, worst manager I have seen anywhere & at any time. In any sport. The funny thing is usually when you get two negatives you get a positive :confused:
yes, to finish second and qualify for the WC would be a super achievement by Trap and the players. I have a feeling this is what may happen but im jst warning people against getting so carried away that they dont look at things with perspective. Sure we have an experienced manager who has seen it all and we have some good prospects but i think that the 2012 Euro Champs and the 2014 World Cup would be a more realistic target. Put it this way, i would "expect" to qualify for 2012 or 2014 more so than 2010.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruben Sosa
Compare the quality of player now to that which got us to 90, 94 and 02. Its not even close. Qualifying for a WC from Europe is no easy task and for Trap and the players to do so would be working wonders. Why do you expect it?
maybe i should up my expectation levels but you need definitely need to be more realistic.
Correct. Such is the gulf in class the 90 - 94 teams might even beat the current lads if they were to pull themselves out of their wheelchairs.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
i reckon we'll come third behind bulgaria. I don't think we'll get six points from the two early away games. I'd love to be proved wrong though especially as this is the first campaign i'll be able to go to all the home games and possibly some away too.
[QUOTE=Ruben Sosa;944846]I tell you why I expect it. Name 5 players playing for Bulgaria? Montenegro? Cyprus? Georgia? That's why... We have a starting 11 playing football in England and Scotland and mixing it week in week out with the top players from around Europe. QUOTE]
I tend to agree with this comment.
There is nothing that we should feel fearful about in this group other then Italy. I think second place is something that Ireland can achieve and I would be disappointed if they did not get it.
However every other team will feel the same way. This looks like a very open group and as someone pointed out I just hope we dont end up as the worst placed second team. Kick in the nuts if thats the case.
My top 3 prediction;
1. Bulgaria
2. Italy
3. Ireland
I think a lot of people are under estimating the Bulgarians. If Trap gets this team to the world cup it will become a new wonder of the world.
I think Italy will exit the world cup early.
meant to say Euros, Italy will exit euros early at the hands of France.Quote:
Originally Posted by finnpark
My predictions: Ireland to pick up home draws against Bulgaria and Italy and nothing else against those two teams.
Third place again though by a far smaller margin. I haven't seen anything playerwise to suggest that we can substantially reverse the decline in our fortunes over the previous 6 years.
However I do see a gradual improvement under Trap during the next campaign which let's be honest would be the least we should expect after our last manager.
Maybe at best we could make a playoff though we'll struggle to beat anyone we're likely to face over 2 legs (unless we get lucky again with the draw as we did with Iran in 2001).
Quote:
Originally Posted by finnpark
Fairly pessimistic view but many of your posts are in relation to Irelands prospects in any sort of competition. I am sure you have supported Ireland for a while so I will ask you two questions. Have you ever been optimistic of Ireland winning anything or reaching a major tournament even in the good auld days? Do you think we will ever reach one again and if so/not, reasons for both and how you would change this so as to a achieve some sort of positive?
its also fair to presume that your average Joe Montenegro, Joe Bulgaria and Johnny Georgia football fan havent heard of more than 5 of our current squad either and to suggest that it would be otherwise is completely and utterly deluded. Dont kid youreslf.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruben Sosa
Essentially, we're reading from the same page Ruben as, if you read my post, i said i have a hunch we could come second (due to the guile of Trap).
NOT, i repeat, NOT due to the players we have. We have no right to "expect" to qualify for ANY world cup. Not with the current crop anyway.
edit: so, what makes me a pessimist then considering i think we may take second place? Sorry man, im a realist. I dont think we have the calibre of player that allows me to "expect" that we should qualify. To qualify would be working wonders.
I was about to post the same thing. Look at Croatia in the qualifiers. They had very few players playing in the top leagues, but they managed to beat England home and away and win the group. Too many teams have played against opposition that they know nothing about and probably think they should easy turn over only to be humbled. Look at England against Hungary back in the 50s (I think). The English players were laughing at them about how they were wearing "slippers" onto to be destroyed in the actual game.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Some of us may be underestimating the Bulgarians, but you sir are over-estimating them. They are about on a level with us. We did very well in their last group while coming 3rd behind Holland and Romania but they certainly are not a team we should fear. Just looking through the list of second seeds again shows IMO that they are arguably the best we could have hoped forQuote:
Originally Posted by finnpark
2nd seeds
England, Romania, Scotland, Turkey, Bulgaria, Russia, Poland, Sweden and Israel.
5 of those teams have qualified for the European championships, while England and Scotland would be matches which would obviously be very difficlut for us.. With the exception of Israel I think Bulgaria were the weakest from that pot. I was quite happy when we drew them. Im not underestimating them whatsoever but we shouldnt be making more out of them than what is there
Really? I would of thought our current squad has a better chance of qualifying than 2012 or 2014, Our best players, Keane, Dunne, Given will be gone or past their best by the time those tournaments come around and I don´t see any players of their cailbre coming, possible exception of McGeady, especially in defence where we seem to have a lot of average players coming though, we are also very unlikely to have a manager as experienced as trap for those touraments so I´m interested to know why you would think we have a better chance in 2012 or 2014Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
hey Morbo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morbo
i actually feel we have a crop of very promising young talent coming through the ranks at club level. With Trap (hopefully) at the helm, things could be very exciting.
we have some decent young keepers getting regular first team footie. No Shay Givens, granted...
defenders - foley, painter, st. ledger, O'Halloran, O'Dea - O'Shea, Dunne and a couple of others may be the older, wiser heads in the group.
midfield - young James McCarthy, Garvan, McGeady, O'Toole, Gleeson, Gibson, Scannell, the Reids will still be around as will Joey O'Brien.
strikers - scarce but heres hoping Cillian Sheridan and Stokes come good. Not to mention the talent of Keogh, Walters, Clarke, Long. Doyle will still be young. Robbie should still be around.
of course there are no guarantees that all these players will have great careers but theres enough there, i think, to have higher hopes for 2012/2014 than this campaign.
montenegro beat norway 3-1 in a friendly few weeks back. they will probly cause us problems. trap has to sort our away form out. if he can do that, aswell as holding on to a one goal lead, i dont see y we cant make the playoff. italy will win the group and ne1 that thinks otherwise, is in dreamland.
yeah very bad luck us getting Montenegro. There are no easy teams in the group. That could work in our favour though if they nick points off bulgaria.
4 points after the two games in September would be a good result. 6 would be fantastic, 2 draws and we are already facing a struggle.
I think 22 points should get us 2nd place.
[QUOTE=shakermaker1982;945955]4 points after the two games in September would be a good result. 6 would be fantastic, 2 draws and we are already facing a struggle.
I think 22 points should get us 2nd place.[/QUOTE
Thats about right 22 points is what we need I was thinking more towards 23 but its such a tough group that points will be taken off everybody.
To top the group we will need an impressive 26-27 points I think will do it to win the group. Cant see us reaching that total but with a few prayers............;)
I'd like to echo these sentiments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruben Sosa
There's no need for the pessimism. I happen to believe that we could have a right lash at topping the group. It'll be extremely tight between Ireland Bulgaria and Italy and it'll come down to the games between the three.
Italy are being overestimated and Bulgaria under. Italy don't have the players of yesteryear and Bulgaria have a very strong spine to their team
Hi lads first time poster(which is obvious as you can see from my post count)
Anyway I think we have every right to feel we can qualify. I'm not saying we have better player than Bulgaria, but at the same time I don't think they are better than us. They have one standout player in Berbatov.
I fear Petrov in the away game, but while I think he's a fine player I think we could easily deal with him.
I think the away game against Bulgaria might end up like those matches we had against the Swiss.
I have faith in Trappa, but I also would not be saying ''oh yeah we're going to qualify'', but there is no reason to be saying ''Oh Montenegro, blah blah...Vucinic..blah'' they will be a difficult no doubt but we are a good bit better.
I agree that we have the potential makings of a very good spine, the players have massively underperformed for a few years now and our spine hasn't had that much playing time together. There are also some massive weak links in the team: if Finnan and O'Brien don't come back out of retirement our defence doesn't look very good indivually (particularly left back), Doyle's poor form means that we may have to try a new player there (or bring back Morrison), and despite having a potentially excellent central midfield, no proper partnership has ever looked close to being forged between two of our players there. Then there's the constant injuries to key players, particularly Duff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruben Sosa
Plus, as methodical as Trapattoni probably is, the last time we went for an extensively tactical coach in Kerr, the players got bored of it, particularly the video analysis (which were only 20 minutes long apparently). Will the same thing happen again? As the old cliché goes, the players That said, Trapattoni is obviously a far superior coach to Kerr. As I said, we have the potential to be a good side, but we haven't lived up to it for a while now and I fear that Trapattoni may not have enough time to patch things up properly. I expect us to push the Bulgarians for the play offs, but we could definitely do better if Trapattoni gets the formula right quickly enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruben Sosa
Exactly.
Don't rate him at all. I wouldn't have him near the starting 11 and don't think Trap will either. He can't pass a ball 10 yards and he plays in the most important position on the team. The two Reids are light years ahead of him as midfielders.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruben Sosa
I agree about Carsley. He is a problem. I hate his distribution of the ball.
Andy Reid, Steven Reid and Owen Garvan are the players who should be considered for starting places when all fit. Maby even this McCarthy guy breaking through next season(he will be 18 afterall)
Carsley is useful enough when played in a strictly defensive role, as he does with Everton.Quote:
Originally Posted by lionelhutz
At Everton, the playmakers come to Carsley to take the ball off him. The longest pass he'll make there is about 5 yards.
With Ireland however, Carsley was always expected to play as a traditional central midfielder, which he simply isn't talented enough to do.
I think he can be very useful for Ireland in the right formation and system, but in a traditional flat 4-4-2 I don't think he would perform.
As for Trap rating him, he specifically mentioned him in his press conference as a key player with experience.
Having finished second, who do we draw in the play-off?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruben Sosa
Great. Joe Lapira grabs the last minute equaliser in Scotland to secure qualification. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruben Sosa
He be worth shout after what I saw in CrokerQuote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie
On serious note in the freezing cold in Croker on Saturday night we will need much improvement if we are to get too WC2010 only thing I felt was that it was end of season and most these players are more focused on there sunshine holidays.
I think Murphy may well be option to play up front especially if we are play a long ball game which we did on Saturday night, anyone agree / disagree??
I was wearing shorts FFS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernian
I honestly don't think long ball will be part of our game once we get players like Reid and McGeady back.
Were you expecting too come off the bench for the game? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by irishultra
Agree with you, since Quinn retired we have being badly missing a target man and although he is not in the same class as Quinn he still got that crucial header that led to the goal, not saying he should start every game but he would give us more options to mix up the way we playQuote:
Originally Posted by Hibernian
Your last point about mixing it up is what I was thinking also. He's useful because he gives us something that neither Doyle or Keane are really good at and that's winning the ball in the air he is also able to have a physical presence and I think he and Keane could work wonders for Ireland.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morbo
We had something similar in World Cup 02 with Quinn able to come off the bench and be affective e.g Germany.
I would not take too much notice of the performance on Saturday (although wish it could have showed more progress) I think important thing is that we don't become predictable and that we have Plan B's C's etc...
And of course be effective from set pieces and organisation is vital
When I see some of the predictions, it really shows how touch and go it is for us to qualify. It seemed much easier in years gone by. This group could end up being like that group when nobody lost, but everyone drew too much, and then by France beating us put them in the driving seat. I honestly don't think Italy have the type of players to run away with a group. I love Italy, and they have great players, but maby some people here understand what I mean.
Hibernian-I asked Trap, but he said he couldn't possibly allow me with the shorts I was wearing. I also forgot my shin guards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by irishultra
I suppose we'll probably do well against Italy, but fall down in other games. I really hope not though. We are in serious need of the boost that qualification would bring... The Trapattoni effect could be timely!
If we beat Bulgaria in Bulgaria on March 28th, we will beat Italy on the 1st of April in Italy as well. Mark my words.
I have a feeling the Bulgaria match will be much easier than expected, we will look in control for long periods but the match will end up like the Slovakia game.
Have you seen how we're playing lately not to mention our away form of the last god knows how long. Havent won a decent game away from home in ages!Quote:
Originally Posted by irishultra
I genuinely think we'll be rolling into Soth Africa come the summer in 2 years time
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seagull-4-life
Ah sure why not, we'll stroll in like....:rolleyes:
Fcuk qualifying.... we are gonna win the damn thing:D:D
now we might get Italy's backlash for the upcomming qualification campaign but after watching Italy during that tournament I honestly think that they are there to be overtaken in top spot from our group.
I for one know that know better team then Ireland to miss out on big chances but I think we could and so will Bulgaria be thinking that they can win the group.
Italy looked out of ideas and i know they were missing properly 3 best players but there not the same team from WC06 are they?