Is Ronaldo the best in the world?

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07/04/2008, 9:13 AM
Pike B

Quote:

Originally Posted by shedite

I do remember Zidane obviously, but I don't think he ever had as much influence in a game. His technique and control are probably better than Ronaldo, but I'd take Ronaldo anyday. He's been toying with every defence in Europe this season.

Oh man, I don't know how to respond to that... Crazy talk.. :(
07/04/2008, 9:15 AM
Closed Account 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by shedite

I do remember Zidane obviously, but I don't think he ever had as much influence in a game...

Watch France v Brazil from last world cup.
07/04/2008, 9:15 AM
Pike B

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmurphyc

Kuyt hasn't been selected in the last two Dutch squads.

And rightly so. He is so average. I can't wait until Benitez wakes up and flogs him to Roda Jc or some other Mickey Mouse team.. Everton maybe ;)
07/04/2008, 9:17 AM
Pike B

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo

Watch France v Brazil from last world cup.

Thank you, I was in shock there and couldn't think straight. Really can't believe this guy. 24 and he doesn't remember Zizou influencing a game??? Nuts...
07/04/2008, 9:26 AM
jmurphyc

Quote:

Originally Posted by shedite

I do remember Zidane obviously, but I don't think he ever had as much influence in a game. His technique and control are probably better than Ronaldo, but I'd take Ronaldo anyday. He's been toying with every defence in Europe this season.

As I said before I think Zidane is overrated, but to say he never had any influence on a game and to say that he "probably" has more technique and control than Ronaldo is ludicrous. Ronaldo is still young and in 5 years time may improve that side to his game and be as good as Zidane, but technique and control are two of the things that made Zidane be rated as such a great player. It's one thing that I won't knock him for. Would Ronaldo be capable of scoring a goal like Zidane did against Leverkussen? From what I've seen of Ronaldo I very much doubt it.
07/04/2008, 9:29 AM
Pike B

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmurphyc

As I said before I think Zidane is overrated, but to say he never had any influence on a game and to say that he "probably" has more technique and control than Ronaldo is ludicrous. Ronaldo is still young and in 5 years time may improve that side to his game and be as good as Zidane, but technique and control are two of the things that made Zidane be rated as such a great player. It's one thing that I won't knock him for. Would Ronaldo be capable of scoring a goal like Zidane did against Leverkussen? From what I've seen of Ronaldo I very much doubt it.

And you still think Zizou is over rated?? Have a good think bud, then say it. Go back a page or two to what I wrote about his achievements.. Come on, he's a legend.. We all make mistakes.... ;)
07/04/2008, 9:52 AM
jmurphyc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pike B

And you still think Zizou is over rated?? Have a good think bud, then say it. Go back a page or two to what I wrote about his achievements.. Come on, he's a legend.. We all make mistakes.... ;)

There is no way I'm backing down on this because a few people on a football forum think I'm mad. I've held this view for a long, long time and I've seen nothing since that has made me change my mind. In the 2006 World Cup he was excellent but IMO France's World Cup win in 1998 could easily have been achieved without him. He missed quite a few games in that tournament and their success was built on a world class back line and not to do with any individual's attacking flair.
07/04/2008, 10:02 AM
Pike B

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmurphyc

There is no way I'm backing down on this because a few people on a football forum think I'm mad. I've held this view for a long, long time and I've seen nothing since that has made me change my mind. In the 2006 World Cup he was excellent but IMO France's World Cup win in 1998 could easily have been achieved without him. He missed quite a few games in that tournament and their success was built on a world class back line and not to do with any individual's attacking flair.

Great team France 98, for sure. Full of legends. But in the Final who rose (literally) above the rest??
07/04/2008, 11:25 AM
shedite

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmurphyc

As I said before I think Zidane is overrated, but to say he never had any influence on a game and to say that he "probably" has more technique and control than Ronaldo is ludicrous. Ronaldo is still young and in 5 years time may improve that side to his game and be as good as Zidane, but technique and control are two of the things that made Zidane be rated as such a great player. It's one thing that I won't knock him for. Would Ronaldo be capable of scoring a goal like Zidane did against Leverkussen? From what I've seen of Ronaldo I very much doubt it.

Okay, read my quote pal, I cleary did not write that.

And yes I did watch the Brazil France game and he was supurb. I also watched the other France games from that world cup tho!

My point is that Ronaldo has done it against everyone from Derby to Roma this season. Every game he seems to be up for and playing out of his skin. I don't think anybody (including Zidane) has ever had a more consistently fantastic season. If you put him in the Chelsea/Liverpool/Arsenal team this season I reckon they would be top of the table.
07/04/2008, 11:41 AM
jmurphyc

Quote:

Originally Posted by shedite

And yes I did watch the Brazil France game and he was supurb. I also watched the other France games from that world cup tho!

I never mentioned the Brazil game. That was someone else. I was the first person to have a go at Zidane so we're kind of in the same boat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shedite

My point is that Ronaldo has done it against everyone from Derby to Roma this season. Every game he seems to be up for and playing out of his skin. I don't think anybody (including Zidane) has ever had a more consistently fantastic season. If you put him in the Chelsea/Liverpool/Arsenal team this season I reckon they would be top of the table.

Whilst Ronaldo has been excellent this season for him to prove himself as the best player in the world (at the moment) he would need to produce a quality match winning performance either in the CL final (or possibly the semis) or in the final/semis of the European Championships.
07/04/2008, 11:48 AM
Pike B

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmurphyc

I never mentioned the Brazil game. That was someone else. I was the first person to have a go at Zidane so we're kind of in the same boat.

Whilst Ronaldo has been excellent this season for him to prove himself as the best player in the world (at the moment) he would need to produce a quality match winning performance either in the CL final (or possibly the semis) or in the final/semis of the European Championships.

At last we agree on something!! He needs to do it in the Barcelona semi and in the Final if United get there. In the biggest games Christiano Ronaldo has played in so far (World Cup Semi Vs France(2006), Champions League Semi 1 and 2 Vs Ac Milan(2007) and in the Fa Cup Final Vs Chelsea(2007) he has been a bit part player. If he is to become a true great ( like Zidane ;)) then he needs to be brilliant and influential in the Biggest games. We've already seen Henry and Ronaldinho fail this test. How will Ronaldo do?? Time will tell...
07/04/2008, 12:34 PM
jebus

Well it's between Messi, Kaka and Ronaldo at the moment, personally I think if had all three playing injury free than it goes Kaka, Messi and then Ronaldo. This season Ronaldo has been the best, largely because he's been the one to stay injury free (anyone remember the start of the season when he was playing rather badly by the way?)

Anyone who doesn't rate Zidane knows very little about football I feel as well :)
07/04/2008, 12:54 PM
jmurphyc

Quote:

Originally Posted by jebus

Anyone who doesn't rate Zidane knows very little about football I feel as well :)

Oh FFS I'm not saying he's s**t or I don't rate him. I just think that he's overrated by people who are talking about all time legends. Yes, he kind of carried the France team to the final in the last World Cup, but Real Madrid proved that they could win Champions Leagues without him, he was by no means one of Juve's most influential figures on their path to the final in '97 and '98 and IMO France would still have won the World Cup in 1998. As I said before, they won it due to a world class and excellently organised defence.
07/04/2008, 12:56 PM
jebus

I don't recall directing my comment at you in particular, in fact if you do rate Zidane then it shouldn't have bothered you at all
07/04/2008, 1:08 PM
jmurphyc

Quote:

Originally Posted by jebus

I don't recall directing my comment at you in particular, in fact if you do rate Zidane then it shouldn't have bothered you at all

Okay. I guess I'm just getting a little worked up with the criticism I'm getting. Anytime I mention this to most people they immediately start having a go so I always think the abuse is directed at me.
07/04/2008, 1:35 PM
Pike B

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmurphyc

Oh FFS I'm not saying he's s**t or I don't rate him. I just think that he's overrated by people who are talking about all time legends. Yes, he kind of carried the France team to the final in the last World Cup, but Real Madrid proved that they could win Champions Leagues without him, he was by no means one of Juve's most influential figures on their path to the final in '97 and '98 and IMO France would still have won the World Cup in 1998. As I said before, they won it due to a world class and excellently organised defence.

Real Madrid won it because of him bud.
Not a central figure at Juve?? Rubbish.
And in 98 as good as France were, in the Final, Zidane stepped up and showed what the best always show, TESTICULAR FORTITUDE..
Cometh the hour Cometh the man stuff...
You just proved to me in one post that your opinion is not worth a damn...
Sorry bud, but you are talking utter nonsense..
07/04/2008, 1:53 PM
jmurphyc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pike B

Real Madrid won it because of him bud.
Not a central figure at Juve?? Rubbish.
And in 98 as good as France were, in the Final, Zidane stepped up and showed what the best always show, TESTICULAR FORTITUDE..
Cometh the hour Cometh the man stuff...
You just proved to me in one post that your opinion is not worth a damn...
Sorry bud, but you are talking utter nonsense..

I have? Really? I thought I outlined perfectly good reasons as to why he's not a true great. He was definitely a big game player of course. I think that's one of the main reasons why he's so highly rated. However, there were a few other players who were more important to Juventus, for example. For Juventus, Del Piero was the main player during Zidane's time at the club. When Del Piero got injured during the 98/99 season they finished 7th I believe and for the first time since 1994 they didn't make it to a Champions League Final.

During the '98 World Cup Zidane missed 3 games I believe. France didn't need him during those to get games due to their solid defensive platform. Their star player during that tournament certainly wasn't Zidane IMO (although I can't remember which of their defensive players stood out the most seeing as it was so long ago).

Another example is when France played us a few years ago at LR. From what I can recall of that game he played very well and he was certainly France's "heartbeat", but one thing that really ****ed me off was that our players were giving him far too much respect and were constantly standing off him. The man's reputation outweighs his ability. I'm starting to get sick of this argument but I just can't accept people telling me I know **** all about football. My ego just won't let it go.
07/04/2008, 1:58 PM
Pike B

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmurphyc

I have? Really? I thought I outlined perfectly good reasons as to why he's not a true great. He was definitely a big game player of course. I think that's one of the main reasons why he's so highly rated. However, there were a few other players who were more important to Juventus, for example. For Juventus, Del Piero was the main player during Zidane's time at the club. When Del Piero got injured during the 98/99 season they finished 7th I believe and for the first time since 1994 they didn't make it to a Champions League Final.

During the '98 World Cup Zidane missed 3 games I believe. France didn't need him during those to get games due to their solid defensive platform. Their star player during that tournament certainly wasn't Zidane IMO (although I can't remember which of their defensive players stood out the most seeing as it was so long ago).

Another example is when France played us a few years ago at LR. From what I can recall of that game he played very well and he was certainly France's "heartbeat", but one thing that really ****ed me off was that our players were giving him far too much respect and were constantly standing off him. The man's reputation outweighs his ability. I'm starting to get sick of this argument but I just can't accept people telling me I know **** all about football. My ego just won't let it go.

Let's end this man.
My top 5 players in our lifetime (1990-2008) As 1990 is the year my earliest memories are from.
5:Kaka
4:Rivaldo
3:Maldini
2:Thuram
1:Zidane
List yours if you wish, and we'll let this arguement die.. I say Zidane is the best I've ever seen and say no more..
07/04/2008, 2:04 PM
jmurphyc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pike B

Let's end this man.
My top 5 players in our lifetime (1990-2008) As 1990 is the year my earliest memories are from.
5:Kaka
4:Rivaldo
3:Maldini
2:Thuram
1:Zidane
List yours if you wish, and we'll let this arguement die.. I say Zidane is the best I've ever seen and say no more..

I can't really be bothered to think up of my 5 favourite players. I'd probably leave a few out that I would rank up there. Let's just move this back to whether the Ronaldo debate...

I personally think Ronaldo is s**t and the rest of the Utd team carries him. :D
07/04/2008, 2:06 PM
Pike B

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmurphyc

I can't really be bothered to think up of my 5 favourite players. I'd probably leave a few out that I would rank up there. Let's just move this back to whether the Ronaldo debate...

I personally think Ronaldo is s**t and the rest of the Utd team carries him. :D

Agreed!!!!! :D Scholes is better anyway, and John O' Shea!!!!!
07/04/2008, 2:08 PM
Wangball

There's only one way to reslove who the better player is between Zidane & Ronaldo....a keep up contest

Zidane was a great player, as was Pele, as was Maradonna, as was Paul McStay (had to put that in there) but Ronaldo is a great player right now & is argubly the best footballer in the world right now...whatever about Messi & Kaka, Zidane isn't even relevant to this argument
07/04/2008, 3:36 PM
Roadend

As there seems to be Zidane and Ronaldo comparisons I'll just ask, would Ronaldo be the same player if he hadn't the pace he has. Zidane didn't have pace and usually beat his man with his football abilities. Just a thought.
07/04/2008, 4:43 PM
feo123

i think if ronaldinho or henry scored 37 goals this season ye would all say there the best in the world
07/04/2008, 5:02 PM
cartman

Quote:

Originally Posted by feo123

i think if ronaldinho or henry scored 37 goals this season ye would all say there the best in the world

and yet when someone mentioned huntelaar scoring 30 odd goals - hes not the best in the world...just cos u score loadsa goals doesn't make you the best player in the world - i personally wouldnt even put ronaldo in the top 10 players in the premiership, let alone the world...
and we will all see why, in the next few weeks against arsenal, chelsea and in the champs league semis when he goes hiding as usual..
07/04/2008, 5:10 PM
DmanDmythDledge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roadend

As there seems to be Zidane and Ronaldo comparisons I'll just ask, would Ronaldo be the same player if he hadn't the pace he has. Zidane didn't have pace and usually beat his man with his football abilities. Just a thought.

You can't make that comparison between the two because of the different positions they play.
07/04/2008, 5:44 PM
celticV3

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman

and yet when someone mentioned huntelaar scoring 30 odd goals - hes not the best in the world...just cos u score loadsa goals doesn't make you the best player in the world

i did not say huntalaar was the best only because of his goal scoring look at my post, he has set up countless goals, when the team go behind he is the player that picks up the team and lifts them until they get the win. for example holland playing their friendly two weeks ago were 3 goals down huntalaar scored twice and they won 4-3. he adds so much to a team and for his age is a great leader an inspiration to the team
08/04/2008, 7:30 AM
Pike B

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roadend

As there seems to be Zidane and Ronaldo comparisons I'll just ask, would Ronaldo be the same player if he hadn't the pace he has. Zidane didn't have pace and usually beat his man with his football abilities. Just a thought.

And a good point at that.. Well said...
08/04/2008, 7:30 AM
Pike B

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wangball

There's only one way to reslove who the better player is between Zidane & Ronaldo....a keep up contest

Zidane was a great player, as was Pele, as was Maradonna, as was Paul McStay (had to put that in there) but Ronaldo is a great player right now & is argubly the best footballer in the world right now...whatever about Messi & Kaka, Zidane isn't even relevant to this argument

Very true. Zidane has left this thread...
09/04/2008, 11:40 AM
old git

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roadend

As there seems to be Zidane and Ronaldo comparisons I'll just ask, would Ronaldo be the same player if he hadn't the pace he has. Zidane didn't have pace and usually beat his man with his football abilities. Just a thought.

so you are saying ronaldo has no footballing abilities other than his pace ... would have to disagree on that ronaldo is also better in the air than zidane was ... only time will prove if ronaldo can keep improving over the years :ball:
09/04/2008, 11:43 AM
old git

[QUOTE=old git;916769]so you are saying ronaldo has no footballing abilities other than his pace ... would have to disagree on that ronaldo is also better in the air than zidane was ... only time will prove if ronaldo can keep improving .. i personally though zidane was very overatted at times and at the moment ronaldo is also overated a good player in a good/ great team playing in a hyped up so called greatest league in the world .. : :ball
09/04/2008, 11:55 AM
Dodge

Quote:

Originally Posted by old git

so you are saying ronaldo has no footballing abilities other than his pace ... would have to disagree on that ronaldo is also better in the air than zidane was ... only time will prove if ronaldo can keep improving over the years :ball:

Messi's 4 yeas younger and already better IMO

And Zidane was brilliant in the air too. Scored more headers in world cup finals thatn anyone

Probably
09/04/2008, 12:01 PM
shanman2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

Messi's 4 yeas younger and already better IMO

And Zidane was brilliant in the air too. Scored more headers in world cup finals thatn anyone

Probably

That's a good shout Dodge. Seem to remember a certain cup final a few years ago where he score one. Zidane, as much as I hate him, was one of the best players of his generation along with Roy Keane.
The really strange thing is and I know its off topic, Zizu and Dugarry nearly signed for Blackburn that time often makes me wonder?:confused:
09/04/2008, 12:07 PM
jebus

Quote:

Originally Posted by shanman2

That's a good shout Dodge. Seem to remember a certain cup final a few years ago where he score one. Zidane, as much as I hate him, was one of the best players of his generation along with Roy Keane.
The really strange thing is and I know its off topic, Zizu and Dugarry nearly signed for Blackburn that time often makes me wonder?:confused:

Roy Keane had a handshake agreement with Kenny Dalglish to join Blackburn as well, so their team could have had a midfield partnership of Keane and Zidane, with Dugarry and Shearer up front
09/04/2008, 12:33 PM
shanman2

Quote:

Originally Posted by jebus

Roy Keane had a handshake agreement with Kenny Dalglish to join Blackburn as well, so their team could have had a midfield partnership of Keane and Zidane, with Dugarry and Shearer up front

Ya I remember that. Christ they would have dominated for years if they had to have gotten them. Wasn't it Hodgson who tried to sign the two lads?
09/04/2008, 1:18 PM
Norm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pike B

What are you possibly basing that on man? Zidane's control, and first touch, were incredible, the best I ever saw, not to mention the fact that he NEVER lost the ball!! (Watch any game, he was almost never dispossesed) he scored penalties, free kicks , headers, left and right foot finishes, won the World Cup, Euro Championships, Champions league, three World Player of the year awards, The Ballon D' Or, the Italian and Spanish League titles and is one of only three players (Pele being another,) to score in two World Cup Finals. He scored the greatest ever goal in a Champions League final and was beyond anything I've ever seen in my life as a player. I am 26. Pele and Maradona have both called him the greatest player of his generation, and he is a GOD in France. The truly great players do it on the biggest possible stage. What did Henry and Ronaldinho do in the Champions league final a few years ago?? Nothing.. When France and his clubs needed him, Zizou delivered. The mark of a true great. The World cup thing with Materazzi was a minor blot on an amazing career. Football is worse for his being gone..
Ronaldo has mount everest of achievement in front of him to be anywhere near Zizou. And I won't hear anyone tell me otherwise.

I'll second that.
09/04/2008, 2:21 PM
Roadend

Quote:

Originally Posted by old git

so you are saying ronaldo has no footballing abilities other than his pace ... would have to disagree on that ronaldo is also better in the air than zidane was ... only time will prove if ronaldo can keep improving over the years :ball:

No, but I'm just throwing it out there as to whether he would be as good if he didn't have the lightning pace he does. Oh and Zidane overated? You'r having a laugh right?
09/04/2008, 2:26 PM
Denis The Red

Lads, did anyone tell you that Zidane is no longer playing. Neither is Maradona, Eusebio, Tomas Hassler, and I heard Pele packed it in recently to promote some product to help some vital part of the anatomy. So the question was is Ronaldo the best at the moment?
Why is he being compared to Zidane and the likes?
And I do think he is better than Messi.....at the moment, this season, currently.
09/04/2008, 2:32 PM
Pike B

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norm

I'll second that.

Wise man... Very wise. You have my respect..
09/04/2008, 2:34 PM
Pike B

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denis The Red

Lads, did anyone tell you that Zidane is no longer playing. Neither is Maradona, Eusebio, Tomas Hassler, and I heard Pele packed it in recently to promote some product to help some vital part of the anatomy. So the question was is Ronaldo the best at the moment?
Why is he being compared to Zidane and the likes?
And I do think he is better than Messi.....at the moment, this season, currently.

Ooooooohh excuse us!! Ya at the moment he is...There I said it..You happy?? ;)
09/04/2008, 9:44 PM
jmurphyc

Messi and Kaka have so far both shown more natural ability IMO. Ronaldo has probably been the best in the world this season but he doesn't have the ability to really control a game like Kaka has in the past (admittedly Pirlo helped Kaka a lot in this respect).

Zidane is unimportant in the debate as to whether Ronaldo is the best in the world at the moment but no matter how many stats and games you talk about it's impossible to say whether someone is overrated or underrated or not.

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