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Same as with Alan O'Brien - we're talking about people who have played for Ireland. My memories of GD in an Ireland shirt are mostly of him wandering onto the field looking for a stray puppy that had escaped his clutches while watching the match from the stands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seagull-4-life
he was a cult hero but that was lads just taking the mick...centre half/striker what a lad...couldn't play in either though
I'm not sure there should be any currently available players in anyones team, quite frankly I'd be willing to forget John O'Shea's many many deficincies if he were to stick the winner in against Italy in the upcoming qualifiers...point is how can you judge a players international career when its nowhere near over?!
I'd say Paul McShane's nearly is overQuote:
Originally Posted by Wangball
A 21 (?) year old centre half's Ireland career is nearly over? Dunne wasn't exactly setting the world alight when he was that age and now he's one of the best in Europe IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seagull-4-life
McShane has a long career ahead of him, maybe not as an automatic starter but he'll be a feature of our squad for quite some time and again his performances against San Marino et al will be soon forgotten if he turns out a few more as good as his debut
Having Bonner, Reid and McAteer on that list is a joke, Bonner is probably our 2nd best keeper of the last 25 years, Reid has been unlucky with injuries but even if you just judge him by the 10 games he has played then he is hardly in the worst 11, as for McAteer, he had some poor games but he also had some very good games and he came up big for Ireland in some crucial matches and we wouldn't have qualified for WC2002 without him.
For me Conolley is by far the worst Irish player to have achieved 40+ capps, he never once scored a goal against a good team in a game that mattered
agree...didn't mean mcshane would never play again like but i doubt he'll be 1st choice possibly ever again...not even making it onto the bench at sundireland at the moQuote:
Originally Posted by Morbo
Paddy Kenny is a good goalkeeper...definitely been worse players than him in the last few years mate sorry
He's a player that Ferguson wanted to keep. That, to me, suggests he has potential. Whilst he hasn't had a great season for Sunderland this season, he has done okay for us so far, and in 5-6 years he could be a quality defender. Being a centre back in the premiership at the age of 21 is not easy, especially when you're playing for a struggling team. Anyway, it's not like we're awash with quality at the back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seagull-4-life
Anyway, I'm surprised McGeady hasn't had a mention yet. For me he has to be the wo....just kidding. I wouldn't want to open that can of worms. :p
So he's like a less successful John O'Shea, you mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by jmurphyc
Well, JOS had talent. All I'm saying is that it shows that there's probably potential there. JOS would have been much better off leaving just as McShane did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebeard
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morbo
Good Point... Have you looked at Aldo's record.... goal v Mexico other than that ?????????????
Yep, played first half against Bolivia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebeard
Bonner has to be slightly better than Nick Colgan:rolleyes:
Bonner was at his best before 1990 and went downhill thereafter. At his best he was excellent, second only to Given over the past 30 years. Alan Kelly also was not a bad keeper by any means. Colgan wins the goalie award, I don't think one cap wonders should count, I've tried to pick players who actually played a fair few games...
My worse of the worst
Colgan
Morris Daish Kernaghan Flemming
McGoldrick Douglas Carsley Stan
Coyne Slaven
Looks good except for these two. Although I don't agree, I might understand a case for Carsley but to include Staunton is totally off the wall.Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwerty
i have to ask if you ever watched Ireland play in the early 90s?Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwerty
If Bonner was rubbish because of a couple of gaffs, then by that logic so is Given; does it really need reminding? His famous fook up against Coventry with Dion Dublin getting the easiest goal he';ll ever score?
Are you just kicking Stan while he is down or do you really believe he is one of the worst 11 since 1980?Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwerty
Ehhh... Bonner buggered in big games for IRELAND.... who cares about NewcastleQuote:
Originally Posted by amaccann
Stan... was a rubbish manager.... but over 103 caps for Ireland he was a great Irish International....... Left Back / Left Midfield , even Center Midfield away to Portugal in 1995 and then Center Half .... Regardless of his lack of class of Saipan and his failings as a Manager , he was a class player for 14 YEARS for Ireland... up to the 1994 W Cup Finals he was top notch.... he dipped after that , but the 2002 campaign he did his fair share
Top of the list by a million miles is one Paul Butler, then of Sunderland, who played the first half of the game against Czech Republic at Lansdowne Road in 2000. Mick McCarthy apparently rated him, and game him a run - albeit, it was a friendly.
After a torrid first half, in which he was cleaned out by Jan Koeller (two goals), he was hauled off at half-time, and never darkened the door of the Irish dressing room subsequently.
He was called into a few squads after that, but he never made a matchday XVIQuote:
Originally Posted by BradyIsMyHero
Surely Mickey "A 12 year old found I existed on the Internet" Evans is a good tout for any 11...
And saved our bacon in countless others. Goalkeepers are more prone to have their mistakes highlighted than others, it's scarcely fair to judge Bonner on the basis of a couple of slips. Certainly in the case of that famous flap against Holland in '94, we were well beaten in that game anyway, with or without that blunder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shedender81
Curtis Fleming was a decent player. I wouldn't have him in a worst XI. I would take him ahead of John O'Shea. I could think of the likes of Davy Savage, Barry Quinn, etc. These guys got a few caps and were really limited players.
While we're talking about obscure international players, is it worth pointing out some of the lads who made the bench for Ireland over the years but never made an appearance? Thinking of Ger Crossley, Jason Gavin (Mexico '98), Richie Partridge, Wes Hoolahan (Greece, '02). I also think Shaun Thornton might have been there at one stage (Norway 2003?). Anyone else?
There seems to be two schools here - one promulgating the evil of the "One (or two) Cap Wonders" and one which suggests that you really ought to have been consistently bad for Ireland, some seem to take the attitude that if you ever screwed up, you earn your place, which covers almost every Irish player in the past 128 years, never mind 28. Might I suggest we have some rules on a selecting a seriously bad Irish XI.
1. All players must have played in 10 accreditted games for the full senior international team during the period described, and their efforts in that period alone count towards their lack of example for Ireland.
2. Their badness must be divided out over ALL their games (no "John Aldridge from 1986 to 1989").
3. Their badness must be for the full senior international team - no amount of valiant efforts for their club, U21s or the B team may count towards their badness, nor vice versa in argument.
4. Teams should be in the national formation, and players named must have played in those positions at least once
This unfortunately would rule out Paul Butler, Mickey Evans and a host of deserving players, but they may have the consolation of being examples of the single worst performances ever hosted by an Irish jersey.
My selection, under these rules:
GK Alan Kelly (34 caps)
RB Maybury (10)
LB Fleming (10)
CB Babb (35)
CB Kernaghan (26) - According to Wiki, currently youth coach at Rangers - is this a first?
RM McGoldrick (15)
LM O'Shea (45 - played there for one of the Swiss games I think)
CM Carsley (36)
CM Kennedy (34)
FW Doherty (36)
FW Coyne (22)
As you can see, they are almost exclusively from the post 1988 period, probably because I couldn't tell good from bad as well as a kid and they were all heroes in my eyes.
Under Bluebard's rules, neither Carsley nor Coyne would qualify.
Since his return, Carsley has held the team together (admittedly under Stan's reign) so couldn't be considered "consistently bad".
Tommy Coyne - though never the greatest - led the line on his own in USA 94 (was it Jack who first invented the five man midfield ?) and performed very bravely up there on his own.
Carsley certainly qualifies - I can remember only one game he was any good under Stan, and a few stinkers, though I only saw about three quarters of the Stan era; furthermore, his paucity of ability in the pre-Moyes-period still plunges him South of passable. Essentially, this is covered by rule 2 - his (extremely) short good period is also divided over all his games. If one or two games does not make a player "bad", then one or two cannot make him "good".Quote:
Originally Posted by BradyIsMyHero
Coyne, I would agree with you on to a degree - he was unlucky with his time co-inciding with 4-5-1 system worked by Charlton, and very brave without much support. However, it doesn't mean he was not one of our weaker players on the field based on those performances - regularly it was after he went off (Italy game aside) that our performances picked up. Coyne pipped Connolly for it because Connolly scored proportionately more goals (the principle task of striker - Coyne scored once every 5.5 games, Connolly once every 4.5) and generally contributed more to play, largely thanks to not being the lone striker. Personally, given a choice I'd rate Coyne ahead of Connolly, but based on performance for the national team...
I believe the Italians invented the five man midfield, and I certainly saw some dodgy bottom of the first division teams use it in the LOI before that, but I think Charlton was the first to use it internationally on these islands.
Subsitutes on Bluebeard's team:
for Carsley - subsitute Graham Kavanagh
For Coyne- substitute David Connolly
now there's a decent "consistently bad" first XI
Mark Kennedy's goals v Yugo was one of the best in Lansdowne over the years... also his honesty in telling Mick in 2002 he was inj showed more respect than his mate JayoQuote:
Originally Posted by Bluebeard
1. Gerry Peyton
2. Chris Morris
3. Phil Babb
4. Phil Babb
5. Eddie McGoldrick
6. Phil Babb
7. John O'shea
8. Paul Butler
9. Phil Babb
10. David Connolly
11. John O'shea
That's all true but unfortunately it doesn't overturn the fact that he was still sh*t.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shedender81
The OP seems like a WUM to me.
Chris Morris wasn't great but he was a solid defender. Didn't offer much going forward but should be nowhere near a worst XI
Anyone who thinks Bonner should be just isn't that bright.
McGoldrick actually wasn't that bad for Ireland. Had a very good game in Denmark when we needed that draw over there.
Hello!
I can't believe that people are leaving picking Stephen Reid over a player like Graham Kavanagh!
Couldn't pass, tackle or cross!
Bonner
Morris
Harte
Kernaghan (c)
Babb
Mc Goldrick
Miller
Healy
Douglas
Connolly
Morrisson
Give me one example of where Alan Kelly was poor - He was a great keeper for club and country. Bonner made mistake upon mistake and was brutal with the backpass. He is still a legend but was never a super kepper.Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
I remember being in Anfield for the playoff against Holland in 96 and that night we would have been beaten by a hell of alot more than 2 only for Alan Kelly. Always thought he was a very good keeper