Have fans been too harsh on the FAI?

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13/02/2008, 5:54 PM
cavan_fan

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

What experts did we have finding a manager?

I see no-one's echoed Roy Keane's comments that we've just gone four months without paying a senior manager, thereby saving about E300k.

Who would you have had doing it?
13/02/2008, 5:57 PM
oconghc2

Quote:

Originally Posted by bohsRap

What's wrong with that?

dont see anything wrong with it. My point is that if someone like obrien hadnt bailed out the fai, we would be stuck with venables, and we wouldnt b sat here glossing over the incompetencies of the organisation.

i am all for donations of this type. as someone has already said - it leaves more in the coffers for grass roots. However, it took o brien to approach the fai! I believe the fai should be actively seeking this type of fund raising and not bumbling along until something like this falls into their lap!

I am delighted with the appointent and i think some credit is due, but it still does not change my view on the fai!
13/02/2008, 5:57 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavan_fan

Who would you have had doing it?

I don't see how that's relevant, to be honest. You suggested that we had a panel of experts picking the manager, and I challenged that assertion.
13/02/2008, 6:00 PM
cavan_fan

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I don't see how that's relevant, to be honest. You suggested that we had a panel of experts picking the manager, and I challenged that assertion.

All 3 of them understand football, have good contacts and were available. They are just the right sort of people to do this job. If nothing else the outcome shows this.
13/02/2008, 6:02 PM
pineapple stu

Can they judge a manager?

You're seriously suggesting they were experts because they were available?

Don Givens was a very good footballer, but seems to understand next to nothing about management, so your point that the understand football is irrelevant.
13/02/2008, 6:02 PM
NeilMcD

Also Delaney has said that even if O Brien did not put the money up they still would have got Trappatoni and would have matched his wages. So in effect what O Brien has done is give money to the grassroots of Football in Ireland that otherwise would have been spent on Trappatoni's wages.
13/02/2008, 6:04 PM
Ireland4ever

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Also Delaney has said that even if O Brien did not put the money up they still would have got Trappatoni and would have matched his wages. So in effect what O Brien has done is give money to the grassroots of Football in Ireland that otherwise would have been spent on Trappatoni's wages.

Excellent point.
13/02/2008, 6:05 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Also Delaney has said that even if O Brien did not put the money up they still would have got Trappatoni and would have matched his wages.

Heard that alright, but he also said that O'Brien's money allowed them to substantially raise the bar in the search for the new manager. Those two statements are mutually exclusive.
13/02/2008, 6:08 PM
NeilMcD

No they are not, because what he is saying is that at the time it raised the bar for who Ireland could look for etc and when they were sounding out potential manager. However he said that if the board came back to him with the name Trappatoni he would have made sure the money was available. I think what that means is, that if Paul Jewell or Billy Davies did not like our wages, well then tough **** but if Trappatoni did not like our wages of half a million or something like that, well then we can negotiate. I think what he was saying is that sometimes for a really exceptional candidate you go the whole hog.
13/02/2008, 6:08 PM
sullanefc

Quote:

Originally Posted by barney

Yeah it's totally ruined the appointment on me that Don Howe wasn't at the press conference. And accepting a donation? F**k me, how stupid are the FAI. They should have told O'Brien where to go and taken some of the money they have put into the eircom League or grassroots football to fund the manager. Idiots the lot of them.

Are you for real?? This isn't the English FA with bags of money we are talking about its the FAI. If someone is offering a donation then why turn it down?

As for taking money out of the grass roots and eL to pay Trappatoni just proves to me what knowledge and regard you have for the development of Irish football. :rolleyes:
13/02/2008, 6:09 PM
Ireland4ever

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Heard that alright, but he also said that O'Brien's money allowed them to substantially raise the bar in the search for the new manager. Those two statements are mutually exclusive.

Not neccessarily, maybe the FAI were willing to pay in excess of what they are giving trappattoni. But since they said that they would have got trappatoni regardless of the money indicates that they had the funds in the first place, and now there's money left over from what they expected to pay.
13/02/2008, 6:12 PM
KevB76

Quote:

Originally Posted by sullanefc

Are you for real?? This isn't the English FA with bags of money we are talking about its the FAI. If someone is offering a donation then why turn it down?

As for taking money out of the grass roots and eL to pay Trappatoni just proves to me what knowledge and regard you have for the development of Irish football. :rolleyes:

I think you may have missed the blatant sarcasm in his post :eek:
13/02/2008, 6:13 PM
cavan_fan

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Can they judge a manager?

You're seriously suggesting they were experts because they were available?

Don Givens was a very good footballer, but seems to understand next to nothing about management, so your point that the understand football is irrelevant.

I am saying that they were as good as anyone I can think of. All 3 know more about football than anyone on here. Again, name one person who would have been better.
13/02/2008, 6:14 PM
sullanefc

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevB76

I think you may have missed the blatant sarcasm in his post :eek:

maybe :o
13/02/2008, 6:16 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ireland4ever

Not neccessarily, maybe the FAI were willing to pay in excess of what they are giving trappattoni. But since they said that they would have got trappatoni regardless of the money indicates that they had the funds in the first place, and now there's money left over from what they expected to pay.

It's very easy now to say they would have paid the money regardless.

Delaney said the money from O'Brien enabled them to expand their search upwards. That to me clearly indicates that Trappatoni wasn't someone they would have been looking at, due to financial constraints, until the money arrived in November.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavan_fan

All 3 know more about football than anyone on here.

That constitutes an expert now, does it?
13/02/2008, 6:18 PM
cavan_fan

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

That constitutes an expert now, does it?

What would an expert be? You dont have to name names.
13/02/2008, 6:19 PM
Ireland4ever

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

It's very easy now to say they would have paid the money regardless.

Delaney said the money from O'Brien enabled them to expand their search upwards. That to me clearly indicates that Trappatoni wasn't someone they would have been looking at, due to financial constraints, until the money arrived in November.

That constitutes an expert now, does it?

Fair point, but we've got a top class manager for half the price, HAPPY DAYS!
13/02/2008, 6:21 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ireland4ever

Fair point, but we've got a top class manager for half the price, HAPPY DAYS!

Agree 100%.
13/02/2008, 6:21 PM
sullanefc

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I don't see how that's relevant, to be honest. You suggested that we had a panel of experts picking the manager, and I challenged that assertion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavan_fan

All 3 of them understand football, have good contacts and were available. They are just the right sort of people to do this job. If nothing else the outcome shows this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Can they judge a manager?

You're seriously suggesting they were experts because they were available?

Don Givens was a very good footballer, but seems to understand next to nothing about management, so your point that the understand football is irrelevant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Heard that alright, but he also said that O'Brien's money allowed them to substantially raise the bar in the search for the new manager. Those two statements are mutually exclusive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavan_fan

I am saying that they were as good as anyone I can think of. All 3 know more about football than anyone on here. Again, name one person who would have been better.

I'd say give it up cavan_fan. You won't be able to talk him out of his negative ways. If you keep going he will probably just lock the thread anyway as it suits him.
13/02/2008, 6:21 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by sullanefc

I'd say give it up cavan_fan. You won't be able to talk him out of his negative ways. If you keep going he will probably just lock the thread anyway as it suits him.

What are you talking about?!

How can I lock this thread?

Have you any actual points to make?!
13/02/2008, 6:27 PM
sullanefc

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

What are you talking about?!

How can I lock this thread?

Have you any actual points to make?!

I've made my points above thank you. And i'm also giving a fellow poster some friendly advice about UCD fans and the way they argue.

It's actually Poor Student who locks thread when he doesn't get his way, so apologies for accusing you of that.

Anyway, on topic, I can't believe people are criticising the FAI and Denis O'Brien for this great deal for Irish football. As someone said above, some people are never happy.
13/02/2008, 6:33 PM
viagogo

I find it amazing that people on this site are giving out about the FAI taking Denis O'Briens money. I mean look at Niall Quinn and his buddies investing in Sunderland. Its about time these businessmen invested in Irish football rather then in mickey mouse English teams.
13/02/2008, 7:05 PM
Superhoops

Quote:

Originally Posted by John83

The appointment was not made by the process, ergo the process was a failure....

Do you believe everything you read in the papers?

Today's press conference showed the poor standard of football journalism in this country.
13/02/2008, 8:46 PM
barney

Quote:

Originally Posted by sullanefc

I've made my points above thank you. And i'm also giving a fellow poster some friendly advice about UCD fans and the way they argue.

It's actually Poor Student who locks thread when he doesn't get his way, so apologies for accusing you of that.

Anyway, on topic, I can't believe people are criticising the FAI and Denis O'Brien for this great deal for Irish football. As someone said above, some people are never happy.

You were dead right in principle anyway.

I don't mean to be personal Stu but you are pursuing a personal agenda on here and that's having a go at the FAI regardless of the fact that they have done well in this instance.

Who are you to say that Don Givens seems to understand nothing about management? He's forgotten more about football than you, or I, will ever know. Ray Houghton has played in some top class teams and coached at a good level as well. He's been around the game all his life. As for Don Howe...if you don't think he is an expert on the game of football, I suggest that you look at his CV. These fellas are all very good football men. They know the game, they've lived the game. You have no right to question them just because you have a gripe with the FAI.

Oh and SullaneFC, my post re the FAI taking money out of the grassroots was sarcastic!!
13/02/2008, 10:11 PM
keenanboy

Harsh?

No, I don't think that fans have been too harsh on the FAI. It has been a mbadly run organisation for a long time now and has more negatives than positives. from ticket fiascos back in USA 94 to the management structure problems documented in the Genesis report, fans have had a right to voice their discontent. but it is a great day for Irish soccer with todays appointment and it is by miles the highlight of John Delaney's reign, so we'll give him that. Maybe it will help to usher in a new era of professionalism too.
13/02/2008, 10:53 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by barney

Who are you to say that Don Givens seems to understand nothing about management?

Threads like these really get the FAI apologists out of the bushes anyways!

I'd say Givens' record with the U-21s shows he knows nothing about management.

But in any case, it was suggested that we had an expert panel to pick the new manager. I still haven't heard anything to back that up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sullanefc

I've made my points above thank you.

No you haven't. You've just moaned without knowing what you're talking about.

Still, nice to see you're also giving that fellow poster giving some friendly advice about Cork fans and the way they argue.
13/02/2008, 10:59 PM
geezer

buffoons

Delaney is very smart though I dont personally trust the guy. That quango called a board of management are all in his pocket, always lookin for free biscuits, tea and expenses while the real board of eddie j, dennis and john d pull the wool over givens, and the free biscuit and expenses brigade. Give eddie, dennis and john oh add in Liam, eamon and johnny G and probably bill great credit though for the trappatoni no argueing there although when we are all sitting in the new lansdowne or croker bored with one man up front it might be a different story
14/02/2008, 1:13 AM
sullanefc

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

No you haven't. You've just moaned without knowing what you're talking about.

And you know what you are talking about?? You're opinion is the be all and end all? Get off the UCD high horse will ya!:rolleyes:
14/02/2008, 7:42 AM
barney

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I'd say Givens' record with the U-21s shows he knows nothing about management.

But in any case, it was suggested that we had an expert panel to pick the new manager. I still haven't heard anything to back that up.

How does it show he knows 'nothing about management'?

Why are the three people not experts in your eyes? As I've said, these guys have played and coached at a high level, they've lived the game and not pontificated about it from behind a keyboard. In my eyes that makes them experts. What criteria do you use to classify an expert?
14/02/2008, 9:29 AM
John83

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superhoops

Do you believe everything you read in the papers?

Today's press conference showed the poor standard of football journalism in this country.

Givens is quoted in that article, a damning quote which fully supports my assertion. If you want to claim that it doesn't, or that he didn't say that, do so, and give your reasons.

Your post is hardly any more convincing than a stubborn school kid who's arguing a lost cause petulantly saying, "So?"
14/02/2008, 9:43 AM
tetsujin1979

If you were told 4 months ago that the process would take 4 months and we would end up with a genuine world class manager, would you have been happy with that? Probably not, given that the last time we were promised a world class manager, we got Stan.
However, the FAI do deserve credit for this appointment, and may have even earned back some trust from that fans. Maybe.
I started a thread a few months ago asking a simple question - have the FAI done anything correctly? - and now I believe that we can add "appointing the successor to Steve Staunton" to the list.
This doesn't take away from any of their other (multiple) faillings, but in the short term it does offer hope that more will be done correctly in the future.
14/02/2008, 10:03 AM
cavan_fan

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Threads like these really get the FAI apologists out of the bushes anyways!

I'd say Givens' record with the U-21s shows he knows nothing about management.

But in any case, it was suggested that we had an expert panel to pick the new manager. I still haven't heard anything to back that up.

No you haven't. You've just moaned without knowing what you're talking about.

Still, nice to see you're also giving that fellow poster giving some friendly advice about Cork fans and the way they argue.

The ideal panel would be:

A recent player, understands the players etc. Houghton seems a relatively articulate guy (for a footballer) and is well respected in the game.

An older Irish football man who is invovled in footbal. Given the fact TV people were ineleiglbe, I can only really see Joe Kinnear and Eoin Hand (maybe) instead of Givens.

A non-Irish older guy with good links in footbal. Now given that it was likely that a UK based manager would be sought Howe is a respectd neutral football man in England. You could have replaced him with someone like David Pleat or Howard Wilkinson but I'm not sure there was much in it.

In the end the idea was to pick 3 available experts and they did that. It might have been nice to have someone with more continental knowledge but in the end Givens' Swiss connections seem to have been useful.

I'd have no objection with these 3 being picked again.
14/02/2008, 1:06 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavan_fan

It might have been nice to have someone with more continental knowledge but in the end Givens' Swiss connections seem to have been useful.

Givens' Swiss connections proved useful? You say this while we have a quote from Givens that he never approached Trappatoni? Who was, of course, managing in Austria?
14/02/2008, 1:10 PM
sullanefc

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Givens' Swiss connections proved useful? You say this while we have a quote from Givens that he never approached Trappatoni? Who was, of course, managing in Austria?

Making stuff up now are we??? The newspaper I have in my hand says otherwise. :rolleyes:
14/02/2008, 1:16 PM
Greenforever

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

What experts did we have finding a manager?

I see no-one's echoed Roy Keane's comments that we've just gone four months without paying a senior manager, thereby saving about E300k.

we're technically still paying Stan :D

Mind you Roy might be better keeping his Trap shut and when he has a few titles under his belt as a manager then he can talk about managers:D
14/02/2008, 1:21 PM
Ozymandias

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenforever

Mind you Roy might be better keeping his Trap shut and when he has a few titles under his belt as a manager then he can talk about managers:D

if thats the case then we might as well shut down the forums although I have won every honour in championship manager therefore I'll keep the place going till you all get sorted with a few titles

just as an add on and staying off topic..Roy won a title in his first season as manager
14/02/2008, 1:21 PM
NeilMcD

It will be interesting what rent a quote has to say on this. What angle will he slag the FAI with. Will he slag them for taking money for an Irish investor ha ha !!! or will he slag them for getting a top class manager who has won it all in club football.
14/02/2008, 1:29 PM
sullanefc

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

It will be interesting what rent a quote has to say on this. What angle will he slag the FAI with. Will he slag them for taking money for an Irish investor ha ha !!! or will he slag them for getting a top class manager who has won it all in club football.

Or he could take Dolan's view that the FAI only hired a world class manager to keep the media onside. :rolleyes:
14/02/2008, 1:55 PM
NeilMcD

Did Dolan really say that. That is a classic. Thats like saying to ones missus, you are only giving me a blowjob to keep me onside. Who cares one is getting a blow-job.
14/02/2008, 1:58 PM
sullanefc

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Did Dolan really say that. That is a classic. Thats like saying to ones missus, you are only giving me a blowjob to keep me onside. Who cares one is getting a blow-job.

:D

I know. I honestly thought Dolan had more cop on than that. Obviously not.

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