Head to head: Trap versus Venables

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Originally Posted by mrtndvn

He couldnt do it with some of the best players in the world with Italy, what hope in hell does he have with our bunch of wasters?

El Tel for me and spend the money we would waste on Trap on the EL. Best way to improve the national team

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Sorry but he has done it with the best players and average players he has won 19 trophies to Venables 2. Venables has also failed to qualify which Trappatoni has not. There is no way you can say Venables is a better manager than Trappatoni because he is not. THe only valid concern is the ability to get his ideas across to the players. His record ****ess all over Venables. When was the last time Venables won a tropy 1991, 17 years ago, when did Trappatoni win one 2007.

South Korea robbed Italyl of a place in the quarter finals and Sweden and Denmark managed to fix a 2-2 draw and Italy went out unbeaten with five points. Now they were not his finest hours but on the back of that he has won the leauge with Bayen, Juve Inter, Benfica and Salzburg.

As Tom Humphries has said, he has forgotton more about football then all the other candidates have ever known.

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

he has forgotton more about football then all the other candidates have ever known.

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Ah no! He has Alzheimers?

Fúck that then.

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Originally Posted by mr.untitled

to use a Rico parlance, traps team were ridden rock solid in korea

have no idea why hed want the irish job tho

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Although the ref made misstakes that doesnt tell the whole story. His defensive tactics were at fault for Italys poor showing. It was a poor Korea team no matter how fit Gus had them.

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Sorry but he has done it with the best players and average players he has won 19 trophies to Venables 2. Venables has also failed to qualify which Trappatoni has not. There is no way you can say Venables is a better manager than Trappatoni because he is not. THe only valid concern is the ability to get his ideas across to the players. His record ****ess all over Venables. When was the last time Venables won a tropy 1991, 17 years ago, when did Trappatoni win one 2007.

South Korea robbed Italyl of a place in the quarter finals and Sweden and Denmark managed to fix a 2-2 draw and Italy went out unbeaten with five points. Now they were not his finest hours but on the back of that he has won the leauge with Bayen, Juve Inter, Benfica and Salzburg.

As Tom Humphries has said, he has forgotton more about football then all the other candidates have ever known.

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Listen I dont think it matters who manages our team as we aint going through anyway.

I'd personaly want Venables as when we dont qualify id rather is was because we had a go rather that sat back and let teams beat us.

El Tel may not get the job, but I seriously doubt Trap will get it so I dont think i have much to worry about.

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Originally Posted by mrtndvn

A




Listen I dont think it matters who manages our team as we aint going through anyway.

I'd personaly want Venables as when we dont qualify id rather is was because we had a go rather that sat back and let teams beat us.

El Tel may not get the job, but I seriously doubt Trap will get it so I dont think i have much to worry about.

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Do you not think that we should get the best man for the job who will give us the best chance of us getting through rather than your loser attitude which belongs more to the 1950s Ireland rather than today. Bulgaria are no great shakes and with decent organisation and leadership and a gameplan we can certainly come second in this group.

Trappatoni would be a far better appointment than Venables. With or without Brady I dont care, anyone but El Tel will do for me!

i believe that spending big on a name like Trap is pointless, just as England have done.

If the wage difference between Trap and venables was spend in developing ground/grounds or training facilities in the EL I believe it would be better spend as a whole.

Just as a gut feeling I dont think Trap will do well, I dont think our players are technical enough to play in his systems.formations. I honestly believe Venables would be a better appointment.

But I'll support whoever gets it

There is a set budget for the Ireland manager I dont think its going to work that Trap will get more than Venables or vice versa.

I think traps C.V. demans a big wage. Hes said to be on 4 million with Red Bull, why would be come to Ireland for 1 million which I think I heard we are offering?

I heard he's on less at Red Bull, c. 1 million, so the two salaries are comparable.

I doubt the Trapattoni speculation would have gained such momentum if the FAI package is likely to be so far short of what Trapattoni would expect. It's been well documented that the FAI can pay around 1 million plus bonuses, maybe more if justified.

That aside, I can't argue with your gut feeling that Trap may not be the man. I'd have some doubts too. On paper he's clearly the guy, but sometimes you've got to go with your instinct.

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Originally Posted by mrtndvn

I think traps C.V. demans a big wage. Hes said to be on 4 million with Red Bull, why would be come to Ireland for 1 million which I think I heard we are offering?

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his age? unfinished business on the international stage? all hypothetical of course...

Just to add, if it was my club Derry City that had the choice of the two, I'd pick Trap everytime as he would then have the chance on the training ground to make the players play the way he wanted them to.

He won't get this with Ireland tho.

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Originally Posted by ken foree

his age? unfinished business on the international stage? all hypothetical of course...

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I think people querying the motives or commitment of either candidate can point to unfinished business. Each is loaded at this stage, I reckon they both have a feeling that getting qualification with Ireland would fill the last real gap in the CV.

Just a thought: let's assume we won't win the group. We'll have to win a play off against who by definition will be a good team. Who'd you like in charge of a tight 2 legged affair? For me I think it'd be the Italian.

Maybe he wants his last hurrah to be sticking one over on his compatriots and then say "Shad upiya face" when they boo him!!

Let's make him an offer he can't refuse!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

I think your mistaking the tactically intelligent defensive Italian football with the 100% pure guts and effort of British defensive football. :) Keane, McGeady and another wouldn't be required to track back much at all. He plays counter attacking football so you can't have all the players back defending. Doyle probably wouldn't make Trap's team, he likes the 4-2-3-1 system.

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No, I remember watching Italy in 2002. The full-backs rarely ventured beyond the half-way line. Wingers tracked back and the centre of the pitch was packed. Also, Italy had Christian Vieri back then, who was absolutely lethal at set-peices. We have no big fella who can win headers and crosses.

Like someone already stated, this might be the sort of game you could play during a play-off or in the knockout stages. If we play like that during the group stages, I can definitely see us dropping points all over the gaff.

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Originally Posted by Carrigaline

No, I remember watching Italy in 2002. The full-backs rarely ventured beyond the half-way line. Wingers tracked back and the centre of the pitch was packed. Also, Italy had Christian Vieri back then, who was absolutely lethal at set-peices. We have no big fella who can win headers and crosses.

Like someone already stated, this might be the sort of game you could play during a play-off or in the knockout stages. If we play like that during the group stages, I can definitely see us dropping points all over the gaff.

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was that the game that Toshack was the manager with his translator Mouinhio :)

I really think that anybody that wants Venables over Trappatoni is genuinely nuts. Trappatoni is by no means guaranteed success but his record is exceptional and it's not as though the man who we believe is his main rival for the job has a CV that even comes close to his.

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

was that the game that Toshack was the manager with his translator Mouinhio :)

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Who is this Mouinhio person that you speak of? I thought we were talking about football here.

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Originally Posted by Carrigaline

No, I remember watching Italy in 2002. The full-backs rarely ventured beyond the half-way line. Wingers tracked back and the centre of the pitch was packed. Also, Italy had Christian Vieri back then, who was absolutely lethal at set-peices. We have no big fella who can win headers and crosses.

Like someone already stated, this might be the sort of game you could play during a play-off or in the knockout stages. If we play like that during the group stages, I can definitely see us dropping points all over the gaff.

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I know nothing of his style to be perfectly honesy. But you can't have such a varied cv with success in so many countries without being a versatile manager. You can't base the mans whole footballing ethos on a couple of games in 2002.

Plus Given the full backs we're stuck with now, it's probbly just as well they're not allowed past the half way line :)

He is a player who plays for Portugal in Pro Ev football for copyright reasons they are not allowed to use the full name.

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

He is a player who plays for Portugal in Pro Ev football for copyright reasons they are not allowed to use the full name.

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:D Like Roy Keen and Ronaldonho?

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Originally Posted by Paulie

I really think that anybody that wants Venables over Trappatoni is genuinely nuts. Trappatoni is by no means guaranteed success but his record is exceptional and it's not as though the man who we believe is his main rival for the job has a CV that even comes close to his.

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Agreed, to me its an absolute no brainer, screw what manager the players want, how many of the Arsenal team in 96 would have said they wanted Wenger before he was appointed?

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Originally Posted by Paulie

I really think that anybody that wants Venables over Trappatoni is genuinely nuts. Trappatoni is by no means guaranteed success but his record is exceptional and it's not as though the man who we believe is his main rival for the job has a CV that even comes close to his.

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I'd rather someone else.

The FAI dropped the ball when they let the likes of Hodgson, Troussier and Adriaanse slip through their fingers.

If you ask me, the best man for the job is Guus Hiddink. He will be available from June, would likely take the Irish job, and has a superb record. I'd even be willing to let Givens get his grubby mits on the job until he was available to take over.

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Originally Posted by Carrigaline

I'd rather someone else.

The FAI dropped the ball when they let the likes of Hodgson, Troussier and Adriaanse slip through their fingers.

If you ask me, the best man for the job is Guus Hiddink. He will be available from June, would likely take the Irish job, and has a superb record. I'd even be willing to let Givens get his grubby mits on the job until he was available to take over.

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You cannot seriously rate Troussier and Adriaanse higher than Trappatoni? Troussier has done nothing in football.

And Hiddink costs too much.

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Originally Posted by Carrigaline

I'd rather someone else.

The FAI dropped the ball when they let the likes of Hodgson, Troussier and Adriaanse slip through their fingers.

If you ask me, the best man for the job is Guus Hiddink. He will be available from June, would likely take the Irish job, and has a superb record. I'd even be willing to let Givens get his grubby mits on the job until he was available to take over.

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sorry but you are clearly deluded. Givens is on a fotune and is not in the budget for Ireland however he is a good manager but Trappatoni is as good.


Troussier and Adrianese and Hodgson are not fit to lace Trappatonis boots and I rate Hodgson very hightly.

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Originally Posted by mrtndvn

I think traps C.V. demans a big wage. Hes said to be on 4 million with Red Bull, why would be come to Ireland for 1 million which I think I heard we are offering?

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Theres absolutely no chance he's on 4 million with red bull. The off the ball lads brought out a great stat that only two managers in serie a are on over 1million. No a f*ckin chance he's on 4 million to manage in Austria

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Originally Posted by Carrigaline

The FAI dropped the ball when they let the likes of Hodgson, Troussier and Adriaanse slip through their fingers.

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Again, when you look at Trappatoni's record, these guys fade into insignificance. We're not just talking about someone whose record is good, it's exceptional. You say that you would rather Hiddink on account of his record but dismiss Trappatoni despite his. It makes no sense.

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Originally Posted by Carrigaline

Like someone already stated, this might be the sort of game you could play during a play-off or in the knockout stages. If we play like that during the group stages, I can definitely see us dropping points all over the gaff.

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He's been playing counter attacking football for as long as I remember, at every team he's been with.

btw, Hiddink is contracted until 2010.

Having a bit of a nightmare today Carrigaline.

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Originally Posted by Ireland4ever

Theres absolutely no chance he's on 4 million with red bull. The off the ball lads brought out a great stat that only two managers in serie a are on over 1million.

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They probably looked at this table and didn't cop on that there are 5 managers in Serie A earning over a million.

1. Roberto Mancini (Inter) €5 million
2. Carlo Ancelotti (Milan) €4.5 million
3. Luciano Spalletti (Roma) €2 million
4. Cesare Prandelli (Fiorentina) €1.5 million
5. Claudio Ranieri (Juventus) €1.5 million
6. Walter Novellino (Torino) €1 million

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Having a bit of a nightmare today Carrigaline.

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Not really. It's simply a case that anyone who casts any doubt on Trapattoni is abused by the Trapa fanboi's.

It's academic anyway, I don't seriously believe the FAI will appoint Trapattoni. If he does somehow get the job, and can lead us to qualification, I will happily say that I was wrong.

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Originally Posted by Carrigaline

Not really. It's simply a case that anyone who casts any doubt on Trapattoni is abused by the Trapa fanboi's.

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It's more to do with the reasons and alternatives you provide. Constructive criticism is a positive thing but suggesting managers whose records are nowhere near as good as Trappatonis only serves to lose you credibility.

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Originally Posted by Carrigaline

Not really. It's simply a case that anyone who casts any doubt on Trapattoni is abused by the Trapa fanboi's.

It's academic anyway, I don't seriously believe the FAI will appoint Trapattoni. If he does somehow get the job, and can lead us to qualification, I will happily say that I was wrong.

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Not at all but you are getting your facts wrong left right and centre. As I said if you are going to have a go at Trappatoni I think his possible inability to communicate with our players is the only problem that I would see.

To criticise his record is just madness.

Indeed, I can't understand how anyone could criticise Trap's record, simply because he failed to reach a semi final or better with Italy in his two attempts. And imagine people having reservations over playing a slightly more defensive game, when we've had to watch the rubbish we've played for the last two years.

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

To criticise his record is just madness.

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Why?

He had two cracks of the whip at international football and failed. The Italian team he managed had the likes of del Piero, Totti, Vieri and Inzaghi; these guys were some of the best in the world back in early 2000.

why does trapattoni want the job?

• he's has unfinished business left at international level - as noted his international record isnt great
• he wants to beat italy twice and stuff it in the faces of a few of his detractors back home
• the money isnt bad
• he's getting on and its less hours than his current job

the he-cant-speak-english thing:
Can Capello? Could Otto Rehhagel speak greek when he started at the greek job? etc. I cant see this being too much of a problem to be honest.

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Originally Posted by Carrigaline

Why?

He had two cracks of the whip at international football and failed. The Italian team he managed had the likes of del Piero, Totti, Vieri and Inzaghi; these guys were some of the best in the world back in early 2000.

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By failed you mean they lost two knock out games. It's not like they were say, drawing with Cyrpus, or I don't know, not beating Iran in a qualifier. Would you turn down Sven Goran Eriksson because England failed in the tournaments he managed in - by losing on penalties and to eventual winners Brazil. That doesn't undo the fact Eriksson is a top drawer manager, though I'd put Trapattoni in a bracket above him.

For those who believe Trap to be the answer to all our prayers I thought I'd make a couple of points.

1. Funny someone called Stuttgart88 is calling for Trappatoni to do a stint as manager. He was here in Stuttgart for a year and a half, a period in VFB's history distinctive for its unbelievably tedious football and Stuttgart's descent into mid-table mediocrity. It was simply terrible stuff to watch; made intolerable by the fact that it was not successful either.

2. The pace his teams played at was not high enough even for the Bundeslega's level; therefore I would seriously doubt that a panel of Premiership players would be able to adjust their style of play enough to ensure halfway coherent strategy and tactics. At 67, and given his personality it is unlikely he will undergo a sea change in his mentality either.

3. Teams managed:
AC Milan
Juventus
Inter Milan
FC Bayern Munich
Cagliari
Fiorentina
Italy
SL Benfica
VfB Stuttgart
Red Bull Salzburg

I'm sorry but this represents for me a clear long term pattern of decline. Red Bull Salzburg are in his charge at the moment, but have massive spending power in comparison to their minnow rivals. The last Scudetto Trap won was in 1989. That's 20 years ago!

4. He was a complete flop with Italy at International level.

5. He has shown to adjust very poorly to managing a team outside of Italy. His command of the German language while he was with Bayern is still the stuff of legends here. While at Stuttgart he never talked to the press directly, but always via an interpreter or a spokesman. (Though I'm not ruling out that possiblity that his interview technique is better that Stan's)

So everyone will herald him at the start but, I guarantee you after 3 games and no goals people will be screaming in agony at the utter agony of watching his teams play. And then we'll have to pay him off big style.

Anybody but Trap per favore.

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Originally Posted by Carrigaline

Why?

He had two cracks of the whip at international football and failed. The Italian team he managed had the likes of del Piero, Totti, Vieri and Inzaghi; these guys were some of the best in the world back in early 2000.

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Man your off your head!! He was knocked out of the world cup 2002 with Italy, in very suspicious circumstances you may recall. He has no less than 18 major trophies. Inter, Juventus and Bayern does a CV or will a CV for the Republic of Ireland soccer team managers post ever be as strong???

Trap all the way. Cant see it hasppening though, bit too good to be true.

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Originally Posted by del_carroll

He was here in Stuttgart for a year and a half, a period in VFB's history distinctive for its unbelievably tedious football and Stuttgart's descent into mid-table mediocrity.

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You must be one of these people who don't understand the sophisticated Italian genius of his defensive plays. :p