Spotlight

i believe this thread already exists....

I thought it was balanced and interesting even if not exactly perceptive of the core issue it is a documentation of sorts.

From the Spotlight Program, some of the text was sent to me.

Eamonn McCann
"The Neil Lennon incident certainly confirmed in the minds of many NI nationalists that the NI team was not for them and wasn't part of them".
"There were loads of them in Derry deeply depressed by the fact that NI had beaten England, there were loads of pubs in NI where nationalists were cheering on England. It told you something about who the people thought was the real enemy."

"Football associations particularily in these Islands is run by blazers, not only by blazers but by people who polish the buttons on them :) if there was an all Ireland team one result of that would be that only half the number of them would entitled to go on junkets and rules revisions in Hawaii, where the 2 Ireland teams are well represented".

Felix Healy
"Footballers from the Brandwell have played for NI and were proud to do so, playing for the Republic was never an issue I think in this day and age the issue has been politicised because footballers only want to play for ...."(cut)
Asked on the reaction from Derry people to him standing for GSTQ at WP
"You were playing for NI you were a footballer who was an international player, the political overtones didn´t come into it."
Then some stuff about the Bingham team being together and united, the political situation made them more so
Felix is not surprised that the IFA are not holding onto players
"when I was the manager of Derry I had people from Dublin ringing me about players, nobody rang me from Belfast nobody from any international set up in Belfast rang me about players that I had in Derry".
"I got dreadful abuse at Windsor Park, shocking sectarian abuse at WP as was the case at the Oval and one or two other grounds because I was a high profile player for Coleraine and some of the abuse directed at me and my family was sectarian garbage and it was difficult not to react to that."

Pat Ramsay - nationalist politician- viewpoint
"They (IFA) are trying to remove someones Irishness and exclude them from playing for the country that they have affiliation with.
These players are not interested in living in the South, they are born and bred in NI they are part of a small Island, Poots knows the GFA was introduced to give some equality across the board and a consensus to bring about the resolution (to problems) we have in NI in terms of Assembly/ executive he can´t cherry pick that now".

Paul Mc Loughlin, DG´s uncle
"From very very young Darron has always wanted to play for the best, you just knew that he was going to be a professional footballer, nothing else mattered to him."

Paul grew up supporting NI and said it was nearly second nature to go and want to play for them
Darron had played in u17 internat for NI in a tournament in Germany and had been awarded player of the tournament.
"Thats the last we heard of Northern Ireland, nobody has ever come back again, they havent come back, Darron was saying has anything happenned but I couldnt say anything."
Noel says from his own initiative he then took Darron for a trial with the Republic's youngsters
"The IFA came back when he was on the bench against San Marino and said hi Darron can´t play for the Republic, they were saying he is our player whoom they didn´t show any interest in until the senior manager picked him, they didn´t use their own opinion they just went with the opinion of another national manager."

Wells - "my info is that he was continued to be selected that was prior to my being here" Wells said he has seen the records and the that it was unlikely that there would have been a long gap.

I only caught a few minutes of it but taped it as well. It seemed like it wasn't really aimed at people who were already paying attention to it beforehand and was merely introducing the issue to the wider public.

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Originally Posted by geysir

I thought it was balanced and interesting even if not exactly perceptive of the core issue it is a documentation of sorts.

"Football associations particularily in these Islands is run by blazers, not only by blazers but by people who polish the buttons on them :) if there was an all Ireland team one result of that would be that only half the number of them would entitled to go on junkets and rules revisions in Hawaii, where the 2 Ireland teams are well represented"[/I].
.[/I]

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Have to agree with this, this is one of the major obstacles to an ireland team. (not that id want it though if im honest)

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Originally Posted by geysir

I thought it was balanced and interesting even if not exactly perceptive of the core issue it is a documentation of sorts.

From the Spotlight Program, some of the text was sent to me.

Eamonn McCann
"The Neil Lennon incident certainly confirmed in the minds of many NI nationalists that the NI team was not for them and wasn't part of them".
"There were loads of them in Derry deeply depressed by the fact that NI had beaten England, there were loads of pubs in NI where nationalists were cheering on England. It told you something about who the people thought was the real enemy."

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This program was neither balanced, nor interesting. it was a partisan political broadcast on behalf of unionism. The entire tone of the program was set by the reporter / mouthpiece's constant referrals to 'stealing', poaching', and 'defection' of players. Hardly suitable language to illustrate one side of the argument fairly.

And as for Red Eamonn? The man is talking absolute sh1te. he would rather revel in the notion that we don't hate england, we actually hate each other as the downtrodden working class manipulated by the foul, insidious bourgoisie. Following englands defeat at the hands of Norn Irn, i didnt meet ONE SINGLE PERSON in derry who was upset. most were actually quite pleased at the result.

Despite the efforts of some to eradicate sectarianism from the IFA, the fact of the matter is that such efforts are STILL ongoing, hence the sectarianism still exists. Hardly a conducive atmosphere to entice a young talented footballer from a nationalist background to go and play for the north. Lennon is the prime example, but not the only one that exists, I'm sure.

Wells just showed himself up as a fool who either didnt know very mcuh about the subject, or didnt want to talk about it in real, definitive, FACTUAL terms, which was supposedly the point of the programme.

As for the FAI 'poaching' players by asking them to ask when the IFA has ignored them? catch yourself on. ever hear the saying 'don't ask, don't get'? if the IFA do not invite someone to play at an international level for them, then they can't complain if someone else offers them the same chance and they take it. is this the current attitude in the IFA? 'we don't want him, but you can't have him'? infantile at the very least.

and as for nationality? your nationality is your nationality, be it in political, footballing, social, or economic terms. I'm irish. if i go to work in britain, i'm still irish. if i got watch the milan derby, i'm still irish. if i live in france for so long that i can vote there, i'm still irish.

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Originally Posted by shantykelly

if i go to work in britain, i'm still irish. if i got watch the milan derby, i'm still irish. if i live in france for so long that i can vote there, i'm still irish.

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And if you represent the Irish Football Association, playing for Northern Ireland in Belfast, in an Emerald Green shirt with a Celtic Cross on it, what does that make you? Greek? :confused:

As Felix Healey - himself clearly happy enough to play for NI put it - this whole issue of eligibility has become politicised, which is never a good thing for any sport in any context.

Gerry Armstrong is living proof (as well as a Living Legend!) that it is possible for someone to play Gaelic Football at Croke Park, then International Soccer for NI at Windsor Park, without either making him more or less "Irish" or more or less "British" - in the end, he can be whatever he wants to be.

Quite simply, there are two Irish Football Associations and therefore two Irish International Football Teams on this island, each equally valid as the other.

And I believe that if you are born within the juridiction of one, you should represent them but if born within the jurisdiction of the other, that is who you should represent (unless you have valid connections such as parent/grandparent/residence with both, in which case you may choose).

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Originally Posted by kingdomkerry

And look at that team Lawrenson picked. He managed to squeeze 3 northern players in. (just not to offend im sure)

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And, you're the wise guy who would "love to see" an All Ireland team, but don't think any Northern Ireland players are good enough to be in it.

Brilliant.:D

[QUOTE=shantykelly;866282]This program was neither balanced, nor interesting. it was a partisan political broadcast on behalf of unionism. QUOTE]

:D

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

And if you represent the Irish Football Association, playing for Northern Ireland in Belfast, in an Emerald Green shirt with a Celtic Cross on it, what does that make you? Greek? :confused:

As Felix Healey - himself clearly happy enough to play for NI put it - this whole issue of eligibility has become politicised, which is never a good thing for any sport in any context.

Gerry Armstrong is living proof (as well as a Living Legend!) that it is possible for someone to play Gaelic Football at Croke Park, then International Soccer for NI at Windsor Park, without either making him more or less "Irish" or more or less "British" - in the end, he can be whatever he wants to be.

Quite simply, there are two Irish Football Associations and therefore two Irish International Football Teams on this island, each equally valid as the other.

And I believe that if you are born within the juridiction of one, you should represent them but if born within the jurisdiction of the other, that is who you should represent (unless you have valid connections such as parent/grandparent/residence with both, in which case you may choose).

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IFA should act on the advice they pay good money for (well, probably Tony or Bertie pay for) .... Too late now anyway ....

Ban for UK anthem demanded
Monday December 12 2005

THE singing of 'God Save the Queen' should be banned at international soccer matches in the North and replaced with a more "neutral" anthem, according to a report commissioned by the Irish Football Association, writes Allison Bray.
The current ban on playing soccer matches on Sundays in the North should also be scrapped, says a 39-page report on the future of Northern Ireland football by the Belfast-based charity Democratic Dialogue.

"The IFA should consider a public competition to see if a more widely acceptable anthem can be found," the report says.

http://www.independent.ie/world-news...ed-225499.html

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Gerry Armstrong grew up in different times ... people put up with a lot more sh*t* (both North & South of the Border) when he was growing up. People are much better educated and have higher expectations now ...

Both jurisdictions are very valid, but what is more valid is in a person's right to choose how to express their heritage/culture/nationality.

Interesting research here EG on identity in NI.

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/dd/papers/flags.htm

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Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia

Never mind. Still great to see that David McDaid and Seamus Sharkey are inthe U 19 squad.

Ruairi Harkin is also in the squad.

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And, great to see two kids on Derry City's books off on tour with the Northern Ireland Under 18 squad next week.

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

And, great to see two kids on Derry City's books off on tour with the Northern Ireland Under 18 squad next week.

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Good luck to them.
What was the IFA's excuse for not phoning up Derry all those years?
they couldn't get through as the FAI were always on the line?:D

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Originally Posted by shantykelly

Wells just showed himself up as a fool who either didnt know very mcuh about the subject, or didnt want to talk about it in real, definitive, FACTUAL terms, which was supposedly the point of the programme.

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You might have grasped that that point was demonstrated perfectly on the program. It's not a failure of the program, quite the opposite actually.

The programme asked him the questions, he was unable to answer.
He could not explain the FIFA status quo position or admit to his failure to interpret the very simple wording on FIFA annex rule 901.
Instead he tried to fob off that FIFA made a mysterious decision, the details of which might be revealed when the minutes are published.
More mysterious than the secret of Fatima.
What morons could swallow that tripe.

Wells doesn´t know his arsé from his elbow when it comes to understanding FIFA rules of eligibility. Yet he purported to lead the OWC fans in a campaign based on his ignorance to persuade FIFA to use a rule of eligibility which doesn´t apply.
The OWC followed Well's lead blindly and we had to witness more emotional rubbish written on this subject from legal illiterates than was ever written about Stan.
And we are not talking about a Lisbon treaty type legal document.

The FAI have consistantly kept off the airwaves on this matter so this program was no different. While Wells turned it into a self rightuos public crusade.
Footballers have a choice, some will choose the OWC some will choose the Republic.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

And if you represent the Irish Football Association, playing for Northern Ireland in Belfast, in an Emerald Green shirt with a Celtic Cross on it, what does that make you? Greek? :confused:

As Felix Healey - himself clearly happy enough to play for NI put it - this whole issue of eligibility has become politicised, which is never a good thing for any sport in any context.

Gerry Armstrong is living proof (as well as a Living Legend!) that it is possible for someone to play Gaelic Football at Croke Park, then International Soccer for NI at Windsor Park, without either making him more or less "Irish" or more or less "British" - in the end, he can be whatever he wants to be.

Quite simply, there are two Irish Football Associations and therefore two Irish International Football Teams on this island, each equally valid as the other.

And I believe that if you are born within the juridiction of one, you should represent them but if born within the jurisdiction of the other, that is who you should represent (unless you have valid connections such as parent/grandparent/residence with both, in which case you may choose).

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although not in football, i actuallhave represented northern ireland in sport,at an amateur level, on the international stage. i'm still irish.

i agree that whilst northern ireland exists, the ifa has every right to exist. i do not dispute this fact, and would actually like to see football in the north not only surviving, but prospering. i'm a great believer in all things local.

however, what i do take issue with is this idea that if you are born in northern ireland, you HAVE to play for it's international side. each player should be allowed to make their own choice in the matter. the ifa currently does suffer from a certain reputation, some of it real, but most of it imagined, and i accept that a lot of folks are working damn hard to change that. however, they still have a lot of ground to cover, especially in places like derry. there exists a special history there.

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

And, great to see two kids on Derry City's books off on tour with the Northern Ireland Under 18 squad next week.

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I agree. Brilliant. Players now have the right to choose. Thats all most of us on foot.ie argued for!

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

And, you're the wise guy who would "love to see" an All Ireland team, but don't think any Northern Ireland players are good enough to be in it.

Brilliant.:D

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I think George McCartney and now that Traitor finnan is retired aron hughes would make an AI team. If i think other players are'nt good enough thats my opinion. And i dont think im too far off the mark

Do you know what the word traitor means. I was not happy with Finnans decision but he is not a traitor.

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Do you know what the word traitor means. I was not happy with Finnans decision but he is not a traitor.

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Yeah, I seen Finnan being called a traitor somwhere else too and I thought I missed someting, I just didn't get it. He is definetly not a traitor.

yeah it's not like he declared for England or anything!

The programme is available on BBC iplayer if anyone wants to see it (not sure people in ROI can use it though?)

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Originally Posted by boovidge

y

The programme is available on BBC iplayer if anyone wants to see it (not sure people in ROI can use it though?)

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Surely Fifa shoudl intervene in this, it should be my right to watch BBC IPlayer as part of the Good Friday agreement. If the RTE Guide is available in Northern Ireland we should have BBC I player. :)

hahaha! :D

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Originally Posted by kingdomkerry

I think George McCartney and now that Traitor finnan is retired aron hughes would make an AI team. If i think other players are'nt good enough thats my opinion. And i dont think im too far off the mark

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Of course, we all have an opinion - that's the lifeblood of discussion.

You will understand tho, that as a Northern Ireland fan, I have absolutely no desire to support a team consisting of two players from Northern Ireland, when I can watch a team entirely consisting of players representing Northern Ireland.

the whole program was full of holes and biased from an NI point of view...


They didnt highlight enough the sectarian abuse cathoics indure at windsor park, my mate who is from Tyrone(and catholic) went to windsor a good few times before to an NI game and said it was one of the scariest things ever, he said the sectarianist abuse was ridiclous..Players like Chris Baird, Aarron Hughes, Neil Lennon, Damien Johnson..even the beloved David Healy was gettin abuse(during his drought period)....'Up to our necks in Fenian blood sung throughout'...why would you expect these palyers to declare for ye....

Your fans giving abuse to people coming out of a catholic church after mass aswell(this happened to a friend of mine in belfast)..disgraceful..

Then comparing the situation with quatar poaching players from brazil...laughable to say the least...NI have no argument..get over it and move on, because Gibson wont be the last player we poach..

Even when they were filming outside the FAI headquaters in abbotstown, thye showed the ****ttiest part of the building in the background.

And as for the all ireland 11, the only players i would take would be chris baird and johnny evans..no one else..healy wouldnt start a head of Doyle!

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Originally Posted by citizenerased

They didnt highlight enough the sectarian abuse cathoics indure at windsor park, my mate who is from Tyrone(and catholic) went to windsor a good few times before to an NI game and said it was one of the scariest things ever, he said the sectarianist abuse was ridiclous..Players like Chris Baird, Aarron Hughes, Neil Lennon, Damien Johnson..even the beloved David Healy was gettin abuse(during his drought period)....'Up to our necks in Fenian blood sung throughout'...why would you expect these palyers to declare for ye....

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When was the last time your "mate" attended a Northern Ireland match?

Are you telling us that all the players you mention received "sectarianist abuse"?

I've a few Northern Ireland mates who are chuffed that their team has been reclaimed from the bigots. Watching their games on TV they regularly focused the cameras on the crowd and all I could see was a bunch of regular lads in their shirts enjoying the games. I'm sure there's still an unpalatable section in their support but then again I'm becoming increasingly bemused at some of the current ROI fans. Nobody's perfect.

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Originally Posted by LeviathanNI

The most interesting bit was the players saying repeatedly that 'they were never asked' to play by the IFA.. ergo they were asked by the FAI? Kinda flys in the face of the rubbish about not poaching our players doesnt it?

See to be honest, the one thing that has annoyed me more about this than anything else is this - for ages we have tried to take the religion out of our team.. it was a milstone around it and it has taken ages, and some dedicated people, to get rid of it.... then the FAI come up and start religiously segragating gthe kids again? WTF is that about? And none of you down there can't say it hasn't happened, but you come up here and see what it has done. Thanks.

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What a load of tosh that the FAI are picking players on their religion. You could agree if the players' names were along the lines of Paddy McGinnty, that they thought, he's Catholic, let's give him a buzz. But Darren Gibson? Sorry am I missing something but can someone point out how the FAI would have deduced that he was Catholic from that.

Anyway, what do you want? Unionist players opting aswell? :D:D:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

And, great to see two kids on Derry City's books off on tour with the Northern Ireland Under 18 squad next week.

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I would have thought that should be normality if the two teams on Ireland were sectarianism/politics free. After all, don't see many northern Gaelic football players/supporters opting for Kerry, even though they are clearly a far better side. Maybe when you remove all the unionist paraphernalia from NI games then you'll probably find no one opting for a side that does not represent their geographical entity.

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

Of course, we all have an opinion - that's the lifeblood of discussion.

You will understand tho, that as a Northern Ireland fan, I have absolutely no desire to support a team consisting of two players from Northern Ireland, when I can watch a team entirely consisting of players representing Northern Ireland.

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But not necessarily one that are exclusively either born or have some an ancestral connection with NI.

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

When was the last time your "mate" attended a Northern Ireland match?

Are you telling us that all the players you mention received "sectarianist abuse"?

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He attended games during the Sammy McILroy era and start of Sanchez era..that was around 02 , 03 ,04, 05 i think..he feared for his safety if his religious persuasian became evident!!


Yes Iam telling you that, they recieved sectarian abuse at one stage or another..maybe it was at a time when the bigotry was worse!! Why can you dismiss these claims? Im sure your pure as the driven snow...

We all have our bad ones..but to say that the biggotry has been completely eradicated is quite laughable to be honest..

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I've a few Northern Ireland mates who are chuffed that their team has been reclaimed from the bigots. Watching their games on TV they regularly focused the cameras on the crowd and all I could see was a bunch of regular lads in their shirts enjoying the games. I'm sure there's still an unpalatable section in their support but then again I'm becoming increasingly bemused at some of the current ROI fans. Nobody's perfect.

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Oh my God!, a sensible post on this subject.

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Originally Posted by cheifo

Oh my God!, a sensible post on this subject.

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Indeed Chiefo -and it needed acknowledging by someone on "our side". These days, and for some years now, NI's support has been an absolute credit to everyone involved. Claims otherwise make up just a portion of some of the self-satisfied guff I'm reading on this thread from some in our ranks.:o

Frankly I think there's a proportionally bigger gob****e element in our support these days.

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Originally Posted by citizenerased

He attended games during the Sammy McILroy era and start of Sanchez era..that was around 02 , 03 ,04, 05 i think..he feared for his safety if his religious persuasian became evident!!


Yes Iam telling you that, they recieved sectarian abuse at one stage or another..maybe it was at a time when the bigotry was worse!! Why can you dismiss these claims? Im sure your pure as the driven snow...

We all have our bad ones..but to say that the biggotry has been completely eradicated is quite laughable to be honest..

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Having attended all Northern Ireland games at Windsor Park during the period mentioned, I can categorically state that "Up To Our Necks In Fenian Blood" has NEVER been chanted "throughout" a match (or, indeed, at all) during that period.

All of those games have been covered by television and radio - if you can produce any evidence whatsoever to the contrary, please post it.

If you cannot, I castigate your "mate" as a liar.

I have attended games during that period with Northern Ireland fans who choose to say their prayers in Catholic Churches, and none of them have ever feared for their safety.

During that period I have never heard a word of "sectarianist abuse" directed at any of the players that you mention. Neil Lennon's last home game for Northern Ireland was in 2001 - you should check out his view on the atmosphere at Northern Ireland matches nowadays.

Messrs Baird, Johnson, Hughes and Healy are all Northern Ireland heros.

I would be particularly surprised if you can back up any claims of "sectarianist abuse" directed at Messrs Healy and Hughes - they both hail from the Unionist community in Northern Ireland.

I neither deny that sectarianism was a major problem at our games, or claim that it has been "completely eradicated".

I do claim, without fear of contradiction, that things have improved dramatically since 2001.

And, you are absolutely correct, we all have "our bad ones" - including the Republic Of Ireland.

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Originally Posted by lopez

Maybe when you remove all the unionist paraphernalia from NI games then you'll probably find no one opting for a side that does not represent their geographical entity.

But not necessarily one that are exclusively either born or have some an ancestral connection with NI.

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As I have stated many times, I have no objection to players from Northern Ireland opting to play for the Republic Of Ireland - as is permissible under the FIFA statutes.

I have no doubt that if all the "unionist paraphernalia" was removed (whatever that is, bearing in mind that Northern Ireland is an integral part of the United Kingdom, and exists because of the Union) that some younger players will continue to elect to play for the Republic Of Ireland - good luck to them.

I support those players, of whatever background, who pull on the Northern Ireland jersey and do it proud.

PS. There's only one Maik Taylor.;)

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

I would be particularly surprised if you can back up any claims of "sectarianist abuse" directed at Messrs Healy and Hughes - they both hail from the Unionist community in Northern Ireland.

.

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Your wrong there fella Hughes played gaelic football with cookstown and his cousin went to school with my 'mate'(as you like to exclaim it). He is very much from a nationalist background. As with David Healy you are wrong also about that, he has no affiliations to any loyalist persuasions..his dad is a catholic...he emphasised this when after the game in which you beat spain at windsor the crowd threw union jacks and NI flags with the red hand on them..and he refused to be drapped in either..get your facts right, dont presume anything..

I understand things are changing gradually with NI fans, but you cannot ignore the elements that still exist..

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Originally Posted by citizenerased

Your wrong there fella Hughes played gaelic football with cookstown and his cousin went to school with my 'mate'(as you like to exclaim it). He is very much from a nationalist background. As with David Healy you are wrong also about that, he has no affiliations to any loyalist persuasions..his dad is a catholic...he emphasised this when after the game in which you beat spain at windsor the crowd threw union jacks and NI flags with the red hand on them..and he refused to be drapped in either..get your facts right, dont presume anything..

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Absolute lies, my friend.

Laughable, in fact.

I know Healy's father personally, and Hughes school don't play GAA.

If you wish to continue with your lies, I'll show you the pictures of Healy adorning the flag of his beloved Northern Ireland after games.

Do yourself a favour, and stop making things up.

It only shows you up to be a desperate bigot.

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

It only shows you up to be a desperate bigot.

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Right, because having differing facts on whether a lad played GAA logically means you discriminate by religion.

Clown.

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Originally Posted by GavinZac

Right, because having differing facts on whether a lad played GAA logically means you discriminate by religion.

Clown.

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I think it was our learned friend, citizenerased, who claimed that Aaron Hughes is "very much from a nationalist background".:D

I couldn't give to flying ones where any player says his prayers - but I do know that Arron Hughes is most definately not from "a nationalist background".

As for the stuff about Healy - absolutely priceless jackanory material.

Healy, and all of his family, are proud Northern Ireland patriots.:cool:

PS. How can you have differing facts? A fact is a fact.

I think NB knowing Clifford Healy personally was more of a clincher, Gavin ;)

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Originally Posted by Gather round

I think NB knowing Clifford Healy personally was more of a clincher, Gavin ;)

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When did I dispute that? Being wrong about a fact doesn't make one a bigot.

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

I think it was our learned friend, citizenerased, who claimed that Aaron Hughes is "very much from a nationalist background".:D

I couldn't give to flying ones where any player says his prayers - but I do know that Arron Hughes is most definately not from "a nationalist background".

As for the stuff about Healy - absolutely priceless jackanory material.
Healy, and all of his family, are proud Northern Ireland patriots.:cool:

PS. How can you have differing facts? A fact is a fact.

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You didn't answer my question. Who cares if you're right? Your pathetic bleating of the word "Bigot!" is what I object to and it seems to be a favourite tactic amongst NI posters on here. I was once called a bigot because I pointed out that amongst the general public, Linfield have a lingering bad image down here. I object to that! I treat all religions with equal contempt.

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Originally Posted by GavinZac

You didn't answer my question. Who cares if you're right? Your pathetic bleating of the word "Bigot!" is what I object to and it seems to be a favourite tactic amongst NI posters on here. I was once called a bigot because I pointed out that amongst the general public, Linfield have a lingering bad image down here. I object to that! I treat all religions with equal contempt.

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I think that telling lies in order to demonise is a form of bigotry.

Do you dispute that?:eek:

Apparantly Andy Townsends dad use to to get his body spray painted green white and orange and would march through his town singing a nation once again every second day.

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Originally Posted by cheifo

Apparantly Andy Townsends dad use to to get his body spray painted green white and orange and would march through his town singing a nation once again every second day.

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Very good.:D

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Originally Posted by citizenerased

NI flags with the red hand on them..and he refused to be drapped in

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Ahhhh - the dreaded "Red Hand" of the loyalist O'Neill clan, as features on the badge of the Tyrone GAA team - whom, presumably, your "mate" supports.:D:D:D