we have the money. however, our general manager appears intent on staying under the 65% wage cap, unlike a lot of other clubs. how long that will last, if the offenders go unpunished, remains to be seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonofstan
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we have the money. however, our general manager appears intent on staying under the 65% wage cap, unlike a lot of other clubs. how long that will last, if the offenders go unpunished, remains to be seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonofstan
Jesus, you've high expectations.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
There's no shame going out to Steua (in the Champions League now), Depor (had reached the CL semis the year before), Odense (disposed of Pats this year so it's not as if beating Shels was a shock result) or Lille (qualified for the CL that season and reached the QF's in 2005/06). I'd rate them a lot higher then any Irish team. The earlier years were bad granted but he did improve on it in later years.
You learn from your experiences and I think his European experience will help Bohs in their Intertoto run.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
stay positive :D !
But they're the kind of teams you're going to have to beat to "go far" in Europe, like you suggested. Odense were in fact a team who stopped Shels going far in the InterToto, so it's fair to use them to argue against your point. And he has to do it with half the budget. And results suggest he didn't really learn from his experiences - he was just given more money to go and buy more players. He was still sticking to 4-5-1 in silly situations right to the end.Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrank
http://bohsfc.blogspot.com/
Fenlon Is The New Bohs Manager
Bohemians have today announced that Pat Fenlon is to become their new manager. Fenlon will replace the outgoing Sean Connor and early reactions are postitive amongst the majority of Bohemians' fans. The official website has announced that a press conference will take place at 1 pm of Thursday, December 27th at Dalymount Park to formally unveil their decision to award him with a 3 year contract.
Fenlon rejoins the Gypsies having spent some of his playing career at The Big Club. Between 1991 and 1994, "Nutsy" made 88 appearances for Bohs, scoring 29 times. Fenlon managed to win the PFAI Player of the Year award in his first season at Bohs.
His managerial career has been a succesful one so far, winning three league titles during his five years at local rivals Shelbourne. He has also managed Derry City in a brief and relatively unsuccessful spell at the start of last season. It remains to be seen whether Fenlon will remain in his position as manager of the Irish Under 23 squad or if he will forfeit it to focus entirely on his new role in "the biggest job in Irish domestic football"*[1] at Bohs.
*Quote courtesy of the one and only Roddy Collins. Rico also said something along the same lines...
So he just bought the players for a laugh then?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Ollie was the kind of chairman who was willing to give his manager more money and Fenlon used it to improve the team, like any manager would. And as your summary of his European results shows the results did improve. He believed in his tactics, whether they were adventurous or not, and the side did go further as the years went on.
They may not have reached the heights of 2004 again but the side had still improved on that showing against the Slovenian side that you saw.
That's why I believe he learnt from his experiences in Europe.
Seconded. When judging a manager, you judge him on his most recent performances. As regards Europe, his most recent results are very impressive.Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrank
He bought the players because he's a chequebook manager, and that's how he manages. With better players, obviously he got (slightly) better results. A good manager would improve the current players; Fenlon just bought in more. You're continuing to ignore the fact that he won't have anything near the same budget at Bohs as at Shels, which is a very important factor.Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrank
Bohs won't go far in the InterToto. They'll get through one round at best (easy draws pending, obviously)
Pat Fenlon could not attract the players he actually wanted to , at The Brandywell. As Estate Agents are wont to say, '' location , location, location''. Because it is expected that players who line out for The Candystripes, will live in the area and the frozen Northwest just didn't appeal to a lot of players that Pat had on his wish list.Quote:
Originally Posted by lofty9
Also another aspect is , in order to do well at Finn Harps, Derry City or any Irish League club for that matter, and not be from the area, you need to understand the mindset. I had three grandparents who were either born or raised North of the border so I speak from personal experience on this issue. Fenlon never came to terms with that principle and didn't succeed largely for that reason. Stephen Kenny seemed to have cracked that particular nut and was much more successful as a result.
Just 12 months ago we said that:oQuote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
Best Derry could do would be 4th/5th and it would be stupid for us to be throwing money away trying to compete with Drogheda.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonofstan
Just over 12 months ago you finished second for the second year in a row; Drogs were richer than you both times, and you finished ahead of them, first time you finished ahead of Shels with their limitless bucket of (not real) cash - the gap between the haves and have nots isn't that wide yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazzy
It all depends on who comes in next season. I think if Kenny takes over he will get the team fit and playing good football again, and if reports of him looking to bring in 7 are true then I cant see why we cannot challenge
Where are those 7 coming from? are they the same 7 mathews and fenlon will be looking for?Quote:
Originally Posted by City till I Die
Cautiously optimistic.
I'd say Heary is yopping his cacks.
Agreed. But he got rid of players ie Holmes, O Flynn, Delaney, McChrystal (players of the mindset that you argue) and spent a lot of money on replacing with duds on large signing on fees and wages (who he told to kick the ball as long as possible)Quote:
Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie
What do you mean same 7 Matthews and Fenlon are after? Kenny wants assurances that if he comes he will have money to spend and wants to bring in 7 players as well as letting 5 senior players go. No names mentioned but he obviously feels that it will take 7 to bring the squad up to scratchQuote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
Yeah I would feel the same. Feel he is a bit improvement on Connor but that is not saying much. Walter Mitty and David Brent are words that my mother said to me when she heard about the sacking of Connor and she does not even read the Bohs messageboard. The football should be better anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Erstwhile Bóz
Agree with Stu here, cant believe that Bohs gane Fenlon the job.
Can count Bohs out of the league so for next season. Can we bring up this thread when fenlon does crap, as im am 100% confident in that he wont win anything (well maybe the league cup!)
Do you actually believe that? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
Btw great appointment for bohs!
While the results got better I don't feel Fenlon ever improved or adapted as a tactician. I think with his relationship with Heary he could restore a feel good factor in Bohs thatmay get him off to a good start but like Pineapple I don't rate him as that great a manager. The three clubs in the money at the moment all have managers who I wouldn't rate very highly and I doubt could win the league except for having a monumental budget.Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrank
which part? that we have the money? well we're building a gym and laundry room in bishopstown even though we dont own it and are only there for another year. i think we have the money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmo
aidan tynan has been the one organising all these meetings between the pro clubs about what to do about the 65% cap. if he was going to ignore it, he'd keep his head down, like that property dealer of yours.
I really couldn't see any other appointment for Bohes.
Regardless of which side you argue I think we'll know by the time he's finished with Bohes, whether that's one year or ten years from now.
The real question is how much do Bohes believe in Fenlon?
Will they throw cash at him or let him build gradually like Drogheda did?
With Rovers coming back to the land of the living Cork Derry Bohes and Pats coming into the equation next year is building up quite nicely.
Cork, like drogheda and pats among others, will be looking at ways to get around the cap as theres no way they'll meet it so to say cork are intent on staying below it is quote laughable really :D - intent on getting around it like all the other clubs thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
From Aertel, and courtesy of Davy on DCC:D:D
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/2156/a1xx1.jpg
Aidan tynan left his last job due to going public about rule breaking and corruption. If they can't meet the cap they will probably be at the forefront of the professional clubs in trying to match it. Will that mean a lack of success? Probably in the very short term.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmo
We've already got the bones of a very good squad. Best defence in the league. Best keeper in the league. Very good midfield. Need to improve up front. He'll have the money to bring in another few players. Fenlon has won 3 league titles. He knows how to be a success. So it didn't work out for him in Derry, It didn't work out for Kenny in Scotland either. Name me a manager out of what was available to us that is better than Fenlon.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Rico. Matthews. Both have won leagues and/or Cups spending a fraction (less than half, I'd say) of what Fenlon spent to win his leagues.
if bohs are to win the title they will need to get into glenn crowes head. he has a very poor season for them. im pretty sure that owen heary will be delighted to see his old gaffer back. I cant see bohs challenging drogs for the title next year it will be pats again and maybe cork city as well.
Sorry drogs have the best defence by a mile as proven with the team of the year.Drogs have possibly best foreward line too in Zayed,Bates and Fabio.Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
Your 'best defence' let in 7 more goals than ours - tell me how you measure the worth of a defence?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi
from what i can gather here stan - rubber awards > actual goals conceded figures.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonofstan
Where was this top class defence when we rolled them over in the FAI Cup this season? :D
The less goals you concede the better your defence. End of.....
Its not that black and white, nothing in football is. Suppose a great defence has no protection from midfield, or an atrocious goalkeeper behind them? Everybody has blamed our loss of alan bennett for our turn around from best defence to worst amongst the top clubs - at the same time that mick devine was gonig through the worst form of his career. Or suppose the figures are bent by one particular game where nothing on the pitch was working, again using a Cork City example where Rovers put 4 past us.Quote:
Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie
Look, that's like saying that for instance Pat's played much better football than Drogheda last year and beat them two of the three matches in the league but lost by a point because in one match three players were sent off and they were beaten by a last minute o.g. to Waterford at home, therefore Pats are a better team than Drogheda, despite the fact that Drogheda won the league. Ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
Bohs conceded less goals than any other team in the league last season, QED Bohs had the best defense last year. Don't get me wrong, I'd say that the Drogheda supporters aren't exactly cacking themselves they didn't win the 'best defence' record over the league Champions title. Of course, if they'd like to swap I think we could come to some arrangement.
What? How is that, in any way, like what I said? If 'best' is simply measured by how many goals you concede over a season, sure, Bohs had the 'best' defence. However, does that mean that Drogs would swap their back four for yours? Your unadventurous football and your strong midfield probably had more to do with it than the particular combination of centre and full backs.Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesThompson
They probably won't care that you won a 'least goals conceded' record, but they might object to your claim to having the best defence.Quote:
Bohs conceded less goals than any other team in the league last season, QED Bohs had the best defense last year. Don't get me wrong, I'd say that the Drogheda supporters aren't exactly cacking themselves they didn't win the 'best defence' record over the league Champions title. Of course, if they'd like to swap I think we could come to some arrangement.
What would the criteria be for deciding "the best defence"? I agree with GavinZac that goals conceded alone isn't enough to call it, but what other tangible criteria are there?
Least goals conceded AND most clean sheets, pehaps?
Which I think we win as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrank
I don't even optastats-depth rankings would cover it. It simply isn't tangible, it isn't black and white. Nothing in football is. Eventually, a consensus comes together and people agree and move on. After all, more people state Maradona as the greatest player ever, despite that other south american guy with the best statistical record.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
In this case also, a team-of-the-year voted in would probably be the best consensus available; I gather that Drogs outperformed Bohs in this field.
Well lets compromise and call us the meanest defence (which I would classify as best at defending thus doing the job of conceding less goals but if you want to apply some metaphysical criteria go ahead)Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac