A 'Home' Squad

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by backtowalsall

The feeling is entirely mutual.




The name Britannia derived from the travel writings of the ancient Greek Pytheas around 320 BC, which described various islands in the North Atlantic as far North as Thule (probably Iceland). Although Pytheas' own writings do not survive, later Greek writers described the islands as the αι Βρεττανιαι or the Brittanic Isles. The peoples of these islands of Prettanike were called the Πρεττανοι, Priteni or Pretani. These names derived from a Celtic name which is likely to have reached Pytheas from the Gauls, who may have used it as their term for the inhabitants of the islands. Priteni is the source of the Welsh language term Prydain, Britain, which has the same source as the Goidelic term Cruithne used to refer to the early Brythonic speaking inhabitants of Ireland and the north of Scotland. The latter were later called Picts or Caledonians by the Romans.

That is what i mean by Geography and history. This island and these islands have a history that extends beyond the English version that starts in 1066.

Trying reading a bit. I'm sure theres a decent library in Derry.

---

You should try reading Cardinal John Henry Newman on the subject. He, an Englishman by birth, didn't consider the term '' British Isles'' to be in any way accurate! I like the IONA one myself as it tip's it's hat to St. Columbkille ( aka Columba) an Irish ecclesiastical explorer and sales agent :D

For what it's worth I've no problem with the term British Isles. It's not an assertion of sovereignty. To seek to replace it with a less convcenient expression smacks of chippiness in my view. There are more important aspects of our relationship with the British to fret about in my opinion.

this is a brilliant thread. I love it.

I think the home nations team should have a new anthem to include every one. Maybe they could sing 'One' by U2. Sure isn't Bono a knight as well.

Seriously though, We'd easily get 3 or 4 players in the team. given, finnan, Keane and Mcgeady

I think Wales would have 2, maybe 3 players in the team, depending on whether Giggs would be considered eligible having retired from Welsh matches.

I think on recent form, especially in internationals, Koumas, Bale and Bellamy would have to be considered for a place in the squad, if not the starting XI.

This would be my team for the record:

G-Given/Gordon-how do you choose? Impossible, imo.
LB-Bale
CB-Richards
CB-Terry
RB-Finnan I guess
LM-Giggs, assuming he's eligible.
CM-Ferguson
CM-Hargreaves
RM-Bentley-little controversial but he's been playing really well for Blackburn recently.
CF-Healy
CF-Crouch

Subs: Given/Gordon, A.Hughes, Dunne, Koumas, Beckham, Rooney, Keane.

No Lampard or Gerrard anywhere near the team. They would turn us into a kick and rush team which is the one thing I really would not want to see, especially at international level. The above players can actual keep the ball and pick out a pass, rather than shooting from 30 metres out and sticking the ball in row Z.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by backtowalsall

The feeling is entirely mutual.




The name Britannia derived from the travel writings of the ancient Greek Pytheas around 320 BC, which described various islands in the North Atlantic as far North as Thule (probably Iceland). Although Pytheas' own writings do not survive, later Greek writers described the islands as the αι Βρεττανιαι or the Brittanic Isles. The peoples of these islands of Prettanike were called the Πρεττανοι, Priteni or Pretani. These names derived from a Celtic name which is likely to have reached Pytheas from the Gauls, who may have used it as their term for the inhabitants of the islands. Priteni is the source of the Welsh language term Prydain, Britain, which has the same source as the Goidelic term Cruithne used to refer to the early Brythonic speaking inhabitants of Ireland and the north of Scotland. The latter were later called Picts or Caledonians by the Romans.

That is what i mean by Geography and history. This island and these islands have a history that extends beyond the English version that starts in 1066.

Trying reading a bit. I'm sure theres a decent library in Derry.

---

Without questioning the veracity of your facts (afaia they're all true) you are using, clever well-worded historical ideas that are really non-sequitor to your initial contention. I'm not trying to be an arse, but thats really not fair
To consider Ireland a home-nation is to take a historical term and apply it incorrectly; the term home nation was used to denote the entities of the UK (called by the British states, what they are in modern political terms, I'm not really sure) in the North Atlantic Archipelago, and make a distinction from other states that belonged to the then British Empire all around the world.

So for you to consider Ireland a home nation, by the term's very own definition, Ireland would need political affiliation with the UK.

To consider Ireland British in the way iron-age/earlymedieval/etc historians considered the North Atlantic Archipelago to be British is a fairly acceptable notion in my opinion, although I personally feel that the historical baggage that British carries with it, make the term divisive and unnecessary to use when we have other alternative to describe the nations on these islands and the islands themselves.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by danonion

So for you to consider Ireland a home nation, by the term's very own definition, Ireland would need political affiliation with the UK.

---

One arguement is that we do, (we have many in fact) but not the one i will use

What i will say is that we don't need a political affiliation with the UK to be a home nation. If and when Scotland pulls out of the UK will they cease to be a home nation?? Its a term with whatever definition you choose to put to it, and in my opinion the home nations are Ireland, Scotland, Wales & England (in that order hopefully)

That said, a home nations team should NEVER happen. Unless to play continental Europe for charity or something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by backtowalsall

in my opinion the home nations are Ireland, Scotland, Wales & England (in that order hopefully).

---

I thought it was s political thing (as you said earlier)

The term means whatever you want it to mean.
In this case it refers to Ireland, N Ireland, Wales, Sotland and England.
It's not a political term, just a convienient term to refer to local nations who
failed to qualify.

One argument against us being considered a home nation is this. Britain has snakes and we don't ... reason? Because Britain came out of the sea while it was still physically connected to continental Europe. Our little island remained immersed until several thousand years later, hence no snakes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cymro

I think Wales would have 2, maybe 3 players in the team, depending on whether Giggs would be considered eligible having retired from Welsh matches.

I think on recent form, especially in internationals, Koumas, Bale and Bellamy would have to be considered for a place in the squad, if not the starting XI.

This would be my team for the record:

G-Given/Gordon-how do you choose? Impossible, imo.
LB-Bale
CB-Richards
CB-Terry
RB-Finnan I guess
LM-Giggs, assuming he's eligible.
CM-Ferguson
CM-Hargreaves
RM-Bentley-little controversial but he's been playing really well for Blackburn recently.
CF-Healy
CF-Crouch

Subs: Given/Gordon, A.Hughes, Dunne, Koumas, Beckham, Rooney, Keane.

No Lampard or Gerrard anywhere near the team. They would turn us into a kick and rush team which is the one thing I really would not want to see, especially at international level. The above players can actual keep the ball and pick out a pass, rather than shooting from 30 metres out and sticking the ball in row Z.

---

To illustrate how poor we are there are two ROI players max in this team and none of them play ball more than 25 yards from their own goal!

In fairness I don't think Cymro was actually going for the best 11 players. Dunne is clearly the better of the 2 Man City centre halves atm although Richards is potentially world class. And Healy isn't as good as Keane, Bellamy, Rooney and a few more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie

One argument against us being considered a home nation is this. Britain has snakes and we don't ... reason? Because Britain came out of the sea while it was still physically connected to continental Europe. Our little island remained immersed until several thousand years later, hence no snakes.

---

No it was St Patrick that go rid of the snakes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tricky_colour

...In this case it refers to Ireland, N Ireland, Wales, Sotland and England.
It's not a political term, just a convienient term to refer to local nations who
failed to qualify.

---

Why not add Belgium?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie

...Our little island remained immersed until several thousand years later, hence no snakes.

---

Charlie Haughey?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lopez

Why not add Belgium?

---

We have no land border with Belgium.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tricky_colour

We have no land border with Belgium.

---

Don't have a land border with Scotland, Wales or England either. Why not the Faroes or Iceland?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lopez

Don't have a land border with Scotland, Wales or England either. Why not the Faroes or Iceland?

---

Scotland, Wales and England are part of the UK which has a land border with Ireland.

I guess you could call the team the homeland squad or something like that.
Faroes and Iceland don't have a land border with either the UK or Ireland

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tricky_colour

Faroes and Iceland don't have a land border with either the UK or Ireland

---

If that's an official FAI statement, I want independent confirmation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie

One argument against us being considered a home nation is this. Britain has snakes and we don't ... reason? Because Britain came out of the sea while it was still physically connected to continental Europe. Our little island remained immersed until several thousand years later, hence no snakes.

---

That's an urban myth, we all know who got rid of the snakes FFS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dynamo kerry

Seriously though, We'd easily get 3 or 4 players in the team. given, finnan, Keane and Mcgeady

---

1/2 of this forum don't want McGeady anywhere near the Irish team!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tricky_colour

Scotland, Wales and England are part of the UK which has a land border with Ireland.

I guess you could call the team the homeland squad or something like that.
Faroes and Iceland don't have a land border with either the UK or Ireland

---

This is very much clutching at straws. Home nation has a specific meaning. Ireland does not fit the criteria of this meaning. We are not a home nation, one cannot consider us a home nation.

Arguing that Ireland is a home nation is congruent to arguing we are part of the UK.

This thread says more about the state of Irish schools than anything else!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

In fairness I don't think Cymro was actually going for the best 11 players. Dunne is clearly the better of the 2 Man City centre halves atm although Richards is potentially world class. And Healy isn't as good as Keane, Bellamy, Rooney and a few more.

---

At club level yes but at international level he is in a purple patch that the others can only dream about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by danonion

This is very much clutching at straws. Home nation has a specific meaning. Ireland does not fit the criteria of this meaning. We are not a home nation, one cannot consider us a home nation.

Arguing that Ireland is a home nation is congruent to arguing we are part of the UK.

---

Right we were a home nation prior to 1922. We are not now nor ever will be again a home nation. I have seen the future so I know.

And the term home nation doesn't relate to the UK as much as it distinguishes the home nations with the overseas empire, what's left of it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by danonion

This is very much clutching at straws. Home nation has a specific meaning. Ireland does not fit the criteria of this meaning. We are not a home nation, one cannot consider us a home nation.

Arguing that Ireland is a home nation is congruent to arguing we are part of the UK.

---

That's nonsense, "home nation" is just two words strung togeather, nothing more.

Infact to suggest it is anything to do with the UK is frankly ridiculous otherwise it would obviously be called the UK Championships.

Why Ireland was excluded form the Home Championships is beyond me.

It is basically a historical term to cover the two islands, nothing to do with the British empire.

I mean if some people don't like the term then perhaps I should change the title to:-

"A "people who can vote on I'm a Celebrity and the X-Factor squad'" :rolleyes:

This, I believe, would comfortable exclude Belgium, the Faroes and Iceland.

I guess you could have Simon Cowell as the manager and Ant and Dec as cone layers :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tricky_colour

That's nonsense, "home nation" is just two words strung togeather, nothing more.

Infact to suggest it is anything to do with the UK is frankly ridiculous otherwise it would obviously be called the UK Championships.

Why Ireland was excluded form the Home Championships is beyond me.

It is basically a historical term to cover the two islands, nothing to do with the British empire.

I mean if some people don't like the term then perhaps I should change the title to:-

"A "people who can vote on I'm a Celebrity and the X-Factor squad'" :rolleyes:

This, I believe, would comfortable exclude Belgium, the Faroes and Iceland.

---

Repeating your initial argument doesn't make it any less wrong. Home Nations specifically refers to the British nations of the North Atlantic Archipelago . It was coined originally to distinguish between British controlled entities around the world from the ones on these isles. Later used to distinguish between the British nations on these isles and those that belong to the British Commonwealth of Nations.

We aren't British and we don't belong to the Commonwealth.

My response was respectful and well thought out, I don't appreciate it being dismissed as nonsense, when you are not countering my facts in any capacity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tricky_colour

Infact to suggest it is anything to do with the UK is frankly ridiculous otherwise it would obviously be called the UK Championships (.......) Why Ireland was excluded form the Home Championships is beyond me.

---

Just a shot in the dark here, but would it possibly be because we aren't a "home nation"?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bondvillain

we aren't a "home nation"?

---

So all those damn immigrants just came here for the jobs and not the warm, homely atmosphere? :mad: :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kingdom hoop

So all those damn immigrants just came here for the jobs and not the warm, homely atmosphere? :mad: :p

---

That, and Mrs McLafferty's world famous boxty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bondvillain

That, and Mrs McLafferty's world famous boxty.

---

Very true! I was at an Enterprise Ireland trade fair in Mexico a few months ago where they served free samples of said boxty. You shoulda seen the faces of the attendees light up! I could sense the cogs whirring upstairs as they processed the joy of living in a land host to such delightful fare.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by danonion

Repeating your initial argument doesn't make it any less wrong. Home Nations specifically refers to the British nations of the North Atlantic Archipelago . It was coined originally to distinguish between British controlled entities around the world from the ones on these isles. Later used to distinguish between the British nations on these isles and those that belong to the British Commonwealth of Nations.

We aren't British and we don't belong to the Commonwealth.

My response was respectful and well thought out, I don't appreciate it being dismissed as nonsense, when you are not countering my facts in any capacity.

---

There were no facts to counter. You told us the term home nation has a very specific meaning, then failed to tell us what that meaning is or provide any source. It was nothing more than an opinion.

btw, is Iceland part of the North Atlantic Archipelago? What about the Faroes?? Rockall??

As was rightly pointed out what makes us a home nation is that we all watch x factor and I'm a celeb, eat the same bad food, speak the same language, vote for each other in Eurovision, and go on holiday to Majorca to watch repeats of Only Fools and Horses and Father Ted while getting terribly burnt due to our pasty white skin.

To paraphrase an Irishman who made the most of this, we are 4 nations divided by a common culture and history.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feech

This thread says more about the state of Irish schools than anything else!

---

I agree.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tricky_colour

...Why Ireland was excluded form the Home Championships is beyond me.

---

It was called the British championship the last time I looked. And the reason we were excluded was that we are not British.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tricky_colour

"A "people who can vote on I'm a Celebrity and the X-Factor squad'" :rolleyes:

This, I believe, would comfortable exclude Belgium, the Faroes and Iceland.

---

Does it? Probably pick up these cr*p programmes on Terrestrial in Belgium if your ariel's pointing the right way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by backtowalsall

...btw, is Iceland part of the North Atlantic Archipelago? What about the Faroes?? Rockall??
Don't see why not.

As was rightly pointed out what makes us a home nation is that we all watch x factor and I'm a celeb, eat the same bad food, speak the same language, vote for each other in Eurovision, and go on holiday to Majorca to watch repeats of Only Fools and Horses and Father Ted while getting terribly burnt due to our pasty white skin.

To paraphrase an Irishman who made the most of this, we are 4 nations divided by a common culture and history.

---

Apart from speak the same language I don't do any of the above, so I'm afraid I don't belong to your Ireland, a member of the home nations. If Ireland can't be a*sed to stay a member of the Commonwealth, there is little to justify anything more in common than being neighbours. They eat sh*te food in Belgium too (chips and Mayonaise) and get sunburnt in Majorca and probably have dubbed British TV comedies too. And I've never had much problem speaking English there either.

The 'Home Nations' came to the fore in 1994, when the British media faced with a World Cup without their sides, chose us. I would have suggested Germany, seeing you like them as your heads of state instead of British royals. In a nutshell, it's b*ll*cks (if you pardon the pun).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lopez

It was called the British championship the last time I looked. And the reason we were excluded was that we are not British.

---

That was just a convienient name for it, we will call it the Two Island Championship.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lopez

Does it? Probably pick up these cr*p programmes on Terrestrial in Belgium if your ariel's pointing the right way.

---

Can't vote on them though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lopez

Apart from speak the same language I don't do any of the above, so I'm afraid I don't belong to your Ireland, a member of the home nations. If Ireland can't be a*sed to stay a member of the Commonwealth, there is little to justify anything more in common than being neighbours. They eat sh*te food in Belgium too (chips and Mayonaise) and get sunburnt in Majorca and probably have dubbed British TV comedies too. And I've never had much problem speaking English there either.

The 'Home Nations' came to the fore in 1994, when the British media faced with a World Cup without their sides, chose us. I would have suggested Germany, seeing you like them as your heads of state instead of British royals. In a nutshell, it's b*ll*cks (if you pardon the pun).

---

You are making too much of a word "home", I am sure Baltic or Scandanavian countries have no problems with such terms.

Does New Zeland have a problem with the term Australasia? Does it mean it is ruled by Australia? Of course not, it's just convienient a word.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tricky_colour

That was just a convienient name for it, we will call it the Two Island Championship..

---

"We" ? Can I play? Can my mate from the Isle of Man play? What about the likes of Le Saux? If he were to come out of retirement would he destined to sit on the sidelines, forever cursing his island of birth?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tricky_colour

Does New Zeland have a problem with the term Australasia? Does it mean it is ruled by Australia? Of course not, it's just convienient a word..

---

So "convenient a word" in fact, that they ignore it completely and use the term "Oceania" regarding football tournaments.

My primary school teacher had a word for people who said too much stuff while their brain was out playing.

the word was "Shhhh".

Walsall

A) I provided a succinct and accepted definition of home nation in an earlier post. They have a thing to help with reading comprehension out here in the States called hooked on phonics, I suggest you invest.

B) Taking the **** out of the term North Atlantic Archipelago does not help your case in any capacity. It too, is the accepted diction of historians, when there is need to describe your "British Isles" without injecting any form of political or social bias.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tricky_colour

That was just a convienient name for it, we will call it the Two Island Championship.

---

Without everyone on the two islands eligible

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tricky_colour

Can't vote on them though.

---

That says more about where the programme is from rather than who is watching. (see above comments on 1994 World Cup)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tricky_colour

You are making too much of a word "home", I am sure Baltic or Scandanavian countries have no problems with such terms.

Does New Zeland have a problem with the term Australasia? Does it mean it is ruled by Australia? Of course not, it's just convienient a word.

---

Scandanavia (sic.) is not a political country to which one country has departed and yet it can't let go of it (even keeping hold of six of its provinces). Same with Australia (although as Bondvillian has pointed out, Oceania is the acceptable term).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bondvillain

So "convenient a word" in fact, that they ignore it completely and use the term "Oceania" regarding football tournaments.

My primary school teacher had a word for people who said too much stuff while their brain was out playing.

the word was "Shhhh".

---

Oceania is a larger region which encompasses Australasia. I have a word for people who speak with authority when they don't actually know what they're talking about, but would rather not take this thread up a notch to a slagging match.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by John83

Oceania is a larger region which encompasses Australasia. I have a word for people who speak with authority when they don't actually know what they're talking about, but would rather not take this thread up a notch to a slagging match.

---

The only "authority" I was speaking with was that of the Oceania Football Confederation. They seem pretty sure (As was my initial assertion) that they play football under the correct name (untainted by Australia having a big old warranted flid & upping sticks to Asia...)

I searched in vain for an Australasian football confederation to use as a counter authority so I could bow to your greater knowledge on this matter, but alas , it was not to be located. Therefore, I can only maintain that my original position : New Zealand etc. "use the term "Oceania" regarding football tournaments." is pretty much allowable.

Good call on not taking this thread up a notch to a slagging match though.:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bondvillain

The only "authority" I was speaking with was that of the Oceania Football Confederation. They seem pretty sure (As was my initial assertion) that they play football under the correct name (untainted by Australia having a big old warranted flid & upping sticks to Asia...)

I searched in vain for an Australasian football confederation to use as a counter authority so I could bow to your greater knowledge on this matter, but alas , it was not to be located. Therefore, I can only maintain that my original position : New Zealand etc. "use the term "Oceania" regarding football tournaments." is pretty much allowable.

Good call on not taking this thread up a notch to a slagging match though.:D

---

OFC don't use the term "Australiasian" for the same reason UEFA don't use the term "Iberian". You seem to have trouble understanding me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by John83

OFC don't use the term "Australiasian" for the same reason UEFA don't use the term "Iberian". You seem to have trouble understanding me.

---

I do indeed. However, it mightn't be all your fault, I've been tired recently.

Still, Im willing to give it another go. Here's how I read it :

• TC alleges that one reason that Ireland should have no problems with being part of a "home nations" tournament is that New Zealand have no obvious objections to being referred to as part of Australasia

• BV (That's me) noting that TC was perhaps ignoring the mitigating factors of Australia & New Zealand's Commonwealth membership & sharing a common head of state in the Current British Monarch, etc. which really renders them closer (in circumstance of Nationality) to Scotland and Wales rather than England & Ireland, counters by saying (with perhaps an over-reliance on the smartarse plugin involved here) the point that For Footballing purposes, New Zealand are considered part of The Oceanic conference & nowhere is the geographic term Australasia mentioned in relation to football.
  So for this discussion at least, Geopolitical accuracy notwithstanding, I was of the opinion that the point was irrelevant, as an Australasian tournament featuring these nations simply doesn't exist. Comparing Ireland's attitude to that of New Zealand's in this case is similar to comparing Bananas and motorbikes.

• J83 (That's you) Avoids the Footballing point & gives BV a mighty fine schoolin' in Pacific geography 101 in a spirited & stern attempt to put the apparently Australasia-denying BV and his smart mouth back in his damn box.

How'm I doing so far?