Kerr was sh*te. McCarthy wasn't great either. We need someone new. Billy Davies (see previous post)?
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Kerr was sh*te. McCarthy wasn't great either. We need someone new. Billy Davies (see previous post)?
Cos' Billy Davies will take the Scotland Job when McLeish goes to Birmingham..
Im no Kerr fan but i think your talking ****** aswell
He got a point against the same russian team that hammered us 4-2 under the tutelage of the Magic Mick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er
You really do like to show your ignorance....Kerr lost one friendly and one qualifier at home, against Italy & France respectively. Hardly cause for outrage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er
You're entitled to your opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland4ever
I'm talking competitive games where we were masters of grinding out draws btw.
as are you...the fact remains the only team mccarthy beat in the world cup was saudi arabia, a team which germany drubbed 8-0 the game before...shocking!!
And which only lost 1-0 to Cameroon. So what?Quote:
Originally Posted by citizenerased
I'm sure all on here would give their rights arms to go to a finals and win one and draw 3 games now.
Fact is we were never out of the top 2 in his 3 campaigns. Only Charlton has a better record. I wouldn't be ecstatic at the thoughts of him coming back right now but the rewritting of history regarding his time in charge is embarrassing.
I would be of the same opinion, leaving out what happened in Saipan (If thats at all possible :mad:)i generally liked the guy. But he had his time, and theres no point going back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er
Don't forget, under McCarthy, we ground out draws at home to Lithuania, Iceland and Belgium - three results that cost us qualification for France '98. Also, McCarthy's disastrous team selections and tactics away to Croatia and Macedonia (Cascarino as lone striker, reverting to 4-5-1 in Skopje) cost us qualification for Euro 2000. Does anyone remember the Cyprus-esque near-embarrassment of Valletta in '99?
McCarthy was guilty of many of the sins that we castigate Kerr and Staunton for - only with a better, more experienced pool of players. We qualified for the 2002 WC with a healthy slice of luck - particularly in the home games against Holland and Portugal, and the fortune to draw Iran in the playoffs. Add to this the misguided favouritism he showed in his team selections... Some would say that his best team (for the away draws in Amsterdam and Lisbon) was only stumbled upon because Babb and Kennedy decided to dance on police cars in Harcourt Street. I would applaud McCarthy for what he did in that campaign, as luck can only take you so far, but the previous campaigns left a lot to be desired, particularly with the players we had available.
His management record in recent times is respectable, but I wouldn't take him back, as I think a departure from the 'old order' is badly needed.
last time we got to a world cup
Manager - Mick McCarthy
Fact.
No matter what we said about anything or any one else
To finish second in an group containing Holland and portugal is one hell of achievement cant see that happening again .. i guarnatee you we will be looking for a new manager in 2 years time.:mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by Supreme feet
So everything McCarthy did beforehand is beyond criticism then...? maybe we should have kept Staunton on for another two campaigns, and allowed him to gradually learn from his mistakes (as Mick was allowed to do).
Last time a team from these islands got to the semi-finals of a major international tournament? Euro 96. Who was the manager?
Terry Venables.
Fact.
Yet, for very good reasons, nobody wants him to take over the Irish job.
McCarthy can live on the 2002 WC qualification for as long as he wants, but let's judge him on the whole of his career, if we're seriously considering welcoming him back into the managerial set-up.
mc carthy qualified for one tournament in 4 - 25%
venables none out of one - 0%
Great couple of points there Supreme. Looks like those rose tinted spectacles got removed from this thread:D.... Well at least for the length of tine it takes Tuff paddy to respond that is!!:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Supreme feet
Of course it's not beyond critcism. He made a number of mistakes and some costly ones. However, the fact is that we finished 2nd in every one of his campaigns. There's no way he would have kept his job and been allowed learn from his mistakes had we been finishing 4th or even 3rd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Supreme feet
That's the big difference and why the argument about giving Kerr more time didn't stack up. We've only ever topped one group and that was thanks to Gary Mackay, 2nd is as good as we've ever achieved otheriwse and he never dropped below that.
????:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er
My bad, the word 'otherwise' has now been added!! :D:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Ireland4ever
When McCarthy got the job, he inherited a side that had just finished 2nd in the Euro '96 qualifiers. He inherited a group of players that included the vast experience of Alan Kelly, Irwin, Staunton, Gary Kelly, Townsend, McLoughlin, Keane, McAteer, Quinn and Cascarino - most of whom were in their prime. McGrath, Houghton, Sheridan and Aldridge were past it, but aside from that, McCarthy had a lot to work with. And we still found ourselves sweating it out with Lithuania and Macedonia for second place, despite being top seeds.
What could he do with the dishevelled, unbalanced squad we now have? It's a much bigger challenge now, and we need a foreign manager who doesn't have any resonant loyalties or extra baggage.
Well he created a new team didn't he ?? One that performed quite well...Quote:
Originally Posted by Supreme feet
If he did it once, why not give him an opportunity to do it again...
He didn't need to create a new team, that's my point. All he needed to do was gently introduce the likes of Cunningham, Kinsella and Given into the side, bed down a settled side (rather than those bizarre, experimental formations and erratic team-selections, like playing Staunton and Irwin as centre-backs in a 3-5-2), and it may not have taken us six years of 'transition' to get to a major tournament.
As far as I remember, there was a lot of moaning about injuries and talk of 'transition' in those early years, wasn't there? Sounds familiar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacktheman
well he did have a few MOM performances from Roy Keane during that campaign (Holland at home in particular).
cheers Triggs :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Tuff Paddy
I'd say poor Triggs' paws must be worn down to stumps now with the amount of mileage he must have got since that 7-1 tonking on Saturday!Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker1982
are you serious? mick inherited a team that was full of players well on the wrong side of 30 and needed a complete make-over. the end of our euro 96 campaign was a complete disaster.... holland 0-2, portugal 0-3, austria 1-3 twice, 6 counties 1-1!! looking back now it was a miracle he got us to the play-offs twice and the 02 wc finals (were we performed well above ourselves, going out on pens to a spanish side who were 2nd favs to win the wc at the time) with the resources he had to work withQuote:
Originally Posted by Supreme feet
during his term we beat yugoslavia, croatia and holland in qualifiers. the only team of note charlton beat in a qualifier was spain in '89
All of the squad apart from Sheridan, Townsend, Houghton, McGrath and Aldridge had at least another two campaigns left in them. 5 players to replace, over a period of two years. Not a complete makeover, in my opinion. Every international manager has to deal with retirements. McCarthy handled the job badly at first. eventually, things fell into place, but he was clueless during the first two years. The job is a lot more difficult now than it was then, and that is why he should not be given the job again.
Only the FAI could float the possibility of this muppet returning.Such a divisive appointment, would have any campaign doomed from the start.
He got a raw deal after Saipan.
Mistakes were made by everyone, but he came out worst, and the media lost him his job.
I'd love to see him back...
Don't get me wrong, the Yugoslavia and Holland games were among my best memories watching Ireland, but McCarthy also presided over some of my worst - i.e. Iceland, Lithuania, Belgium, Macedonia (twice), Croatia, Turkey, Saipan, Russia and Switzerland. For four years I thought he was the wrong man, it was a case of the FAI letting a manager 'learn on the job'. He's a Championship manager now, just like Dowie, Dave Jones, Neil Warnock etc... We need someone different, a bigger name, a la Charlton in 86.
Id have Mick anytime before El Tels Perma Tan .I dont think Mick would ever work under Delaney again after the way he was shafted the last time.
If Irish Soccer is too have any future that "fraud" has to be dumped once and for all but of course he has all his "Boys" licking his ass:mad:
We were seeded 2nd I think back then and the groups were pretty weak particularly the first campaign when it was us Romania and Lichenstein :), being seeded 2nd makes a huge difference, we're on the slippery slope.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
The last 3 campaigns are really hurting us now, The Czech Rep and Bulgaria are effectively Kerr's legacy to us...
I think we were Top seeds for WC98 with Romania as second seeds. As we were for Euro96 with Portugal second.Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwerty
Top seeds lads, how the mighty have fallen.;)
last irish manager to get us to World cup.
last time we were in the top 15 in the world seedings
Answer - Mick McCarthy
I think McCarthy was genuine and an ok manager, but he was too emotional about it. That documentary on him showed it. THere's nothing wrong with being emotional in the job, the total contrast being Eriksson, but the press ridiculed a bit for it. I don't think he could ever come back. Maybe he took that job too soon.
I beg to differ. Some people have very selective memories. The '98 campaign was an utter disaster - Harte centre back, Keane centre back. Telling Irwin to prove himself. Awful results against Iceland, Macedonia, Lithuania. Scraping through to the playoffs in a laughable group.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr miyagi
Even a man called Stan would do a better job than that. And don't give me "he learned from that campaign" nonsense. Staunton didnt get that chance, neither did Kerr after his first full campaign.
We should have topped that group with the players we had
Ya fininshing ahead of the might of Lithuania and Iceland - he's a real Harry HoudiniQuote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
This is nonsense, there is absolutely ZERO chance of McCarthy being given the job. Anybody even suggesting this on the "selection panel" would surely realise they would be enraging at least 50% of Irish football fans (rightly or wrongly). Nobody can seriously believe McCarthy is in with a shout, even if he did want the job.
he cant even get wolves promoted, two lowest ever points tallys in a premiership...McCarthy is a cr*p manager...one win against saudi arabia in the world cup...persisted on playing harte and leaving out finnan!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacktheman
What cost McCarthy his job was the apparent mistake of not spotting Spain were down a man in the World Cup, and then two shocking performances in the first two qualifiers. It was those things that lead to further questioning of what happened in Saipan really - kinda gave it a fresh set of legs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Red&White Rover
As for him coming back, it's simply too soon. I wouldn't necessarily rule it out but it'd have to be a different set of players and administrators really, never mind show that he can still produce it in club management. No one would be seriously making a case now if it wasn't for the favourite being El feckin Tel!
Wolves will be in the premership next season he is doing grat things there with a limited team and not much money.
We still the last manager to get us to a world cup finals no matter what anyboby say .. does any one think we will be in the finals in 2 years time.
Do we have Roy Keane in his prime now??Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacktheman
Laughable!! :D:DQuote:
Originally Posted by citizenerased
He was in charge for less then a quarter of one of those seasons, at least try to be factual.