Probably the week before the first fixtures.
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Probably the week before the first fixtures.
article in the Indo today
Second-tier strugglers facing 'A' team battle
Wednesday November 07 2007
THE battle between Wexford Youths and Kilkenny City to avoid finishing bottom of the First Division has slipped under the radar somewhat as another Eircom League campaign draws to a close.
Next year, however, it will all be very different as the strugglers in the second tier will have to adjust to playing for something more than pride.
The introduction of the FAI's new 'A' Championship will add a third strand to domestic football and ensure that those clubs who consistently potter around in the lower echelons of the league -- with the only punishment being the token exercise of re-election -- have far more reason to nervously look over their shoulder.
Essentially, the 'A' Championship has two functions. It will serve as a new Reserve League for the clubs in the Premier Division for whom participation is compulsory while First Division sides have the option of entering back-up selections if they so wish.
In an era where some of the better clubs have larger squads, then an U-21 league (which will be downgraded to U-20 level next year) does not quite adequately fit the requirements for those out of the first team picture.
However, the intriguing aspect of the 'A' Championship is the door which it has opened for prospective new members into the league with non-league clubs or bodies from around the country encouraged to step up to the plate and give senior football a shot with the possibility of promotion to the First Division available to them.
The deadline for applications was last week and after nine parties initially expressed tentative interest, only six followed through with their intentions after considering the practicalities of what was being asked of them in the licensing manual.
Impressive
Their next step will be to face an independent assessment board -- similar to what each league club faced last year -- where they must present their vision and path forward in order to be fully ratified.
Already, the new Sporting Fingal project have gone public with their plans after an impressive display a fortnight ago which stated that their ultimate aim was to make it to the Premier Division.
With Liam Buckley stating a desire to introduce a competitive first team semi-professional squad in conjunction with the venture's ambitious plans in the youth department, they will be a force to be reckoned with at this level once they can dot the i's and cross the t's in the coming weeks.
It is believed that Galway club Salthill Devon will also be bidding to join them, while the identities of the other four remain unknown for the time being although clubs involved in the U-21 league such as Portlaoise, the Kerry League, Ballinasloe Town, Lifford from Clare and also a team from Mayo have been mooted as possibles.
A regional spread will be pivotal to its development as the 'A' Championship will be divided into two parts with a North and South league. Then, the respective winners will playoff for a prize fund of 20,000.
Naturally, the reserve teams of the Premier Division clubs will be prevented from taking up a place in the First Division so the process of possible promotion and relegation between the 'A' League and First Division is predicated on a couple of factors.
The highest ranking nonleague side will only be in with the chance of ascending to the league proper if they finish in the top four of their respective division.
In the event of there being a corresponding team in the other region then they must play off against each other to earn the right to take on the basement club in the First Division in what would be the ultimately decisive encounter.
Logistical difficulties
Understandably, there are logistical difficulties to be resolved regarding the new applicants before the 'A' Championship can get under way next year.
The new clubs, who are currently engaged in the winter campaign that amateur football still operates, will not be in a position to start until that season ends. Therefore, there will be a Shield competition for the Premier Division reserve sides that will begin in March in conjunction with the normal league season. In June, the 'A' Championship proper will kick off with the influx of fresh blood certain to capture the most attention.
The arrival of a new entity like Wexford Youths to the league this year has been a breath of fresh air although steadily their attendances have fallen off as their season trickles to what is essentially a pointless conclusion.
From an early stage, it has been obvious that there has been nothing to play for, a reality that the First Division has lived with for so long.
Now, it's a matter of how the graveyard dwellers respond to the potential threat on the horizon. The hope is that they will embrace it and use it as a motivation and wake-up call for the club and the locality.
Alas, time waits for nobody and the flip side is that this may be a necessary exercise in removing some dead wood from where they continually linger. Cruel, perhaps, but then sentiment and progress rarely make comfortable bedfellows.
Yep thats correct. No overage players allowedQuote:
Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge
Have the FAI said how big they want the A league to be ?
A maximum of 8 new applicants to chose between, with 12 Premier clubs having a mandatory presence already, and First Division clubs apparently having the option of adding a team or not. Could make it quite a big league.
I'd also be concerned about the stability of Reserve team members from some of the weaker First Division clubs, shoudl they chose to join. It would be ideal to not have the numbers in the A-league chopping and changing all the time.
Reagrdless - I think this is a great developmnent for Irish football. Feck knows how the IFA beat us to it years ago though.... :eek:
They just have a reserve league don't they? same as we had years ago?Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
Anyway, there's 9 new applicants and the FAI have said they'll split the league into 2 regions (possibly North/South) so size won't be a problem
Article above says there's only 6 teams interested in joining.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
6 new teams. Add them to 12 Premier 'Reserve' teams and probably a handful of First Division 'Reserve' teams and there are plenty to cover a two sections (North/South).Quote:
Originally Posted by Schumi
So if all 6 get in and no first division teams decide to enter (it will be pretty expensive after all, and you could just enter your reserves in a local league) then you end up with two eight team divisions once the ten team premier kicks in. In that case new clubs would have a fair chance of making the top four.
The FAI actually seem to have planned this pretty well so far. I'm scared.
BTW I swear to god I meant to type 6 above...
They do have a reserve league for Premeir teams, but also a Carnegie First and Second Division below the Premier. Examples of teams in the Second Division would be Oxford United Stars (Derry), Moyola Park, Queens University, and Ballinamallard (who, I think, once hit the giddy heights of the Premier division about 5 years ago). So we're a good few years behind in the IFA here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
There's only 6 applicants :Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Not all of them might get in. So with the north-south split, you could feasibly have one of the 2 divisions with only one or two non-reserve clubs in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Independent Article
Thats nothing like our A league, thats basically just an extension of the league. Something its easy to do with no minimum ground requirements and no huge distances to travel. The Irish league 2nd division is the equivalent of the Munster Senior League ffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
Our thing is totally different, and IMO, 100% better
article last week in the istar says sporting fingal gave an undertaking to stay away from underage football how will that square with there licensing application which requires all clubs to have a juvinile section.
It is the same - as it took what was previously the Intermediate League, renamed it, and made it an inter-linked lower rung of the footballing pyramid. It is still an intermediate league linked into the leagues above, which the Munster Senior League is most definitely not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Of course the actual details beyond that basic structural similarity will differ. Few intermediate-type leagues around Europe are identical, as they have to reflect the unique circumstances within each country.
The IFA extended their pyramid down to an effectively intermediate rung a few years back. We're doing ours from next year - albeit in a way that reflects the differeing circumstances on-the-ground for our league.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
I think it is easier for the IFA as there is less travel involved. If you have the likes of Letterkenny rovers travelling to cork for a reserve match or Waterford reserves travelling to Fanad its kind of big expences that in all fairness will be extremely hard to re-coup. Ok so they split the league into North and South, so do they have top team in each section play-off for a crack at bottom in the first div?
20k is alot of money on offer too for the winner of this. Do they only get it if they are promoted or do they get it for winnig the A league? :confused:
I suppose trial and error but will the FAI help out the clubs with their debts? You will have to pay these players, I presume all games will have to be played on Sat or Sunday's?
It will be interesting to see how it all pans out.
If both divisions have a non-resevr team finishing ion their Top 4 - yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_Heggy
Good question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_Heggy
No way should the FAI cover debts - they don't even do it for long established Premier teams. As soon as you do that you encourage rash spending. Bottom line is that any club operating continually in debt shouldn't be in operation at that level (e.g. Shels in the Premier). The FAI isn't a charity for clubs living beyond their means.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_Heggy
Steve, the A league is more about a reserve division than a pyramid structure. Thats the crucial difference
Isn't it compulsory to have a team in the A league if your in the Prem? So saying Longford stayed up, (just an example) they are/were having financial troubles, they would still have to enter a team into the A league and this would obviously add to the financial strain. Not every club have Bohs, Drogs or Pats money, some teams could really struggle because of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
I know I'm being sceptical but it is the FAI we are talking about here. I hope they have put alot of thought into this and not just said "feck it, lets add another tier and make it like Spains one". All well and good compairing the Spainish system to ours, but they would have a good bit more euro in the bank than LOI clubs.
You're right that it's somewhere between the 2 in terms of membership.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
But the fact it is linked into the leagues above in terms of promotion/relegation means that it will be part of the pyramid. It would be possible for Sporting Fingal to go from the A League next year all the way to the Premier (God forbid...!), which no Reserve League or unlinked Intermediate league (e.g. the Munster League) would ever enable a club to do.
But it will effectively take the place of their Reserve team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_Heggy
Any Premier division team who can't afford to run the equivalent of a reserve team would need to be taking a good look at themselves. How thread-bare do we want our Premier clubs to be...? :confused:
It won't though. The Under 20 league will replace the current u21 league so this is a whole new team for the club to run. They'll be obliged to run 3 teams at national level now.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
As jebus said, they're not allowed step up into the division their first team is in.Quote:
Originally Posted by L37Ultra
A couple of anecdotes:
I seem to recall Athletico Madrid being saved from relegation by their B team winning the second flight, though perhaps I've some detail wrong.
Quentin Fortune was signed by Manchester United from Barcelona B after he helped that team win the second flight.
I like the A league as a concept. It should be helpful as a tier for new teams to step into the league, and it may be more competitive than the reserve set-up, which will help the top teams develop young players.
I think we all agree that this would/could be a good thing for LOI but the funding aspect would be my main concern.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
I think a competitive u-20 league and a reserve A league would be great for developing new players.
The A-League looks like it'll be regionalised, not at national level. I would expect U20 to continue being very regional as well. So only the senior team would be national.... :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Again, is it really too much to ask of our Premier teams - not all, just the Premier ones - that they have a second and third-string team in regionalised competitions ? How thread-bare do we want our clubs to be operating otherwise ?? If one of our financially weaker Premier teams can't have a 2nd and 3rd string-side, how would they ever hope to handle the cost of competing in Europe should they get the through the Cup, for example ?
Thats a ridiculous comparison. Doing well in the cup and qualifying for europe will obviously bring more finances into the club.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
Nobody is saying the A league is a bad idea. People are just saying that obliging the clubs to create a thrid team will make extra demands on already stretched budgets. In Derry's case they could be put in the same region as Dublin. Do you consider 8 trips to Dublin as local? The FAI have dropped this on clubs with no help at all. Just like UEFA licensing. Again, I think its a gret idea but if any club has reservations about it, I think you're being a bit unkind by dismissing it so lightly
8 trips to Dublin? So about 5,000 so? Are budgets really that tight?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Who am I kidding? Shels didn't nearly get sucked under in a vacuum.
Good to see Salthill have declared an interest. Although they have no spectator facilities their setup is very good. There's plenty of space to put up a stand or two to rectify that issue. They also won the Dr. O'Neill U-21 Champonship last year so they have the playing and development structure in place. Are they actually based in Salthill though? Thought I remember someone saying that their ground isn't actually there?
They're based in Drom, which is in the arse end of nowhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
What if you charged supporter 300 euro to fill the squad, leave everyone make there own way to games, Saves the clubs the problem of paying Mediocre players and could raise thousands