just out of interest , once you are a passport holder of a country and havent represented any other country before , is there any FIFA rule which could prevent you ?
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just out of interest , once you are a passport holder of a country and havent represented any other country before , is there any FIFA rule which could prevent you ?
no need for a qualification in the above sentence, the fact that it came from the FAI increases its chances of tripeness!Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Geysir's been right all along I think. I studied the rule a while back (2004 Unity Cup) and was 100% certain that when McGeady played a small part in one of those games he had committed himself to us categorically. His age was not the issue, the key was that it was an "A" international, as will Wednesday's game.
I can't look up the rules at work - security settings don't allow me to download pdf files from FIFA.com.
Nationality is what determines eligibility in the first place and isn't passport eligibility / possession the essential criterion?
Stutts, fortunately for football there are a few holes in the firewall. If they had proper security settings at your workplace, conducive to work productivity, then the firewall would block out Footie as well.
i would have thought so but i think i recall FIFA stopped Ailton the brazilian declaring for qatar even though they gave him a passportQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
The FAI are under no doubts about Darron's international future.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Sunday Mirror - A spokesperson for the FAI, responding to the Worthington story said " Darron has been with us from under-age level and is completely commited to the Republic set-up. He has no interest in playing for ther North.
I think you will find that the ruling was made by Fifa's Heinz Tannler, Director of the Legal Division, and Corina Luck, Head of General Legal, in a joint letter to the IFA, which was copied to the FAI," in October 2006.
"In it, they informed the IFA that 'the existing situation in Northern Ireland allows players to choose whether they wish to represent Northern Ireland or the Republic of Ireland'
Worthington needs to stop the begging and go and find a few more German/Englishmen like Maik Taylor to represent 'Are We A Country'
They stopped him because he had no connection or allegiance to Qatar and was basically selling his nationality to play for Qatar: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...ca/3523266.stmQuote:
Originally Posted by RogerMilla
In an example say of a Polish born footballer with an Irish Passport, uncapped at any level for Poland, is selected to play for Ireland.Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerMilla
Then FIFA says that he has to have at least 2 years residency here.
I think I'd quit.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Looks like we might be able to put this to bed!
http://www.eleven-a-side.com/boysing...p?newsid=28947
Hopefully Stan gives him a run out...
that pretty much clears it up for me , it means that even if we make irish citizens of the lads born in the six counties then fifa could later come round and declare them ineligible ? no ?Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Darron Gibson was in the squad for the game against San Marino, which was of course a competive game. Surely UEFA / FIFA would have stepped in then if there was any doubt over his eligibility? Had he appeared in that game, he'd have been tied to the ROI without any doubt.
I can understand Northern Ireland's fustration and i do sympathesise, but if the lad wants to play for ROI, then they'll do well to let it lie.
exactly so see my other post , we could have a nightmare scenario when lads from the north would be declared ineligible for us. I hope the Fai and dept. of foreign affairs are on the ball here.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
The Laurel and Hardy of efficiency and organisation must surely have this covered.Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerMilla
It could happen but it would take quite a revamp of existing regulations.Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerMilla
Not just an interpretation issue.
Young lads in the North are entitled to Irish citizenship by merely being born on the Island.
This is not disputed by the IFA.
At Present FIFA acknowledge that a lad born in the North to have the right to have dual citizenship. So the rules for players who have dual citizenship apply at present.
Those rules are clearly laid out, that a lad can change before the age of 21 as long as they have not been capped at senior "A" level.
Can we trust the FAI? That's a hard ask.
But to their credit so far they give the appearance of playing a cute diplomatic game.
Can we trust John Delaney to pull off an act of audacious skulduggery if need be? in that I think we have the right man.
Sorry, I took the meaning of your use of "supposed" up wrongly i.e. that you were wondering whether it was authentic or not. Not a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
As for the reliability of a letter from that source, you may well be correct, but as I've tried to point out, it is irrelevant to Gibson's case whether Stan picks him in a friendly or a competitive match.
We know Gibson is eligible for the Senior IFA team, but we do not know whether he is eligible for the senior FAI team, nor will we until FIFA gives a definitive answer.
Your faith in the FAI, though touching, does not appear to be shared by all the people who actually live within its jurisdiction, e.g:Quote:
Originally Posted by co. down green
Originally Posted by geysir
"Even if the letter did come from the FAI, it is tripe"
OR
Subsequently posted by RogerMilla
"no need for a qualification in the above sentence, the fact that it came from the FAI increases its chances of tripeness!"
As for the Sunday Mirror quotation, as a Statement of Fact, it may be unimpeachible. However, it does not actually state he is eligible for the senior FAI team (never mind demonstrate the means by which he is so eligible).
As for your October 2006 letter (never made public in full by the FAI, afaik), if that was the final word on the matter, why, subsequent to the IFA requiring clarification from FIFA in early 2007, do FIFA still require further information from the FAI as of August 2007?
As for your final "dig" at the IFA and Big Maik, all I will say is that FIFA are perfectly happy with his eligibility to line up for NI and it is they who have the final say on such matters.
Which means that whatever way FIFA decides in the Gibson case, this NI fan will accept their determination. Can we say the same for ROI fans? Even the ones from NI? ;)
Stan could include Maradona, or even Madonna, in his squad, should he choose. It does not become pertinent until the player actually takes to the field.Quote:
Originally Posted by stiofain
As for your second point, it is nice to see that at least some fans have an appreciation of the IFA's predicament here. Which is that no Association, especially one with such scarce resources and playing population, is going to stand by idly whilst young players they have developed suddenly decide, for whatever reason or none, that they were going to opt for another Association, before their eligibility to do so had even been definitively established. The same principle would apply whether they were opting for ROI or Brazil, England or Bhutan.
In this particular case, the IFA has no gripe against Gibson personally, as evidenced by the fact that they will still offer him the chance* to play international football should FIFA exclude from playing for the ROI.
* - Of course, whether he accepts that chance or not must be entirely up to him.
It is not Stan or the FAI which is the final arbiter in disputed cases, it is FIFA. And they haven't decided yet. Therefore, Stan's giving him a run-out in a friendly establishes nothing. Though his selecting him for a competitive match would be a different thing altogether, if for no other reason than that the opposition would need to be satisfied that all was in order!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Ogba
Ealing, you keep saying FIFA havent decided and there is some major consideration ongoing. But FIFA have said
Is this not a decision? Are you relying on the 'existing situation' line?Quote:
The existing situation in Northern Ireland allows players to choose whether they wish to represent Northern Ireland or the Republic of Ireland
Surely the nightmare for you would be if lads from the South were suddenly eligible for NI (or some other country)? We'd take Shay Given, who's a "Northerner" as it is...;)Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerMilla
As for the involvement of the Dept. of Foreign Affairs (aside from the irony that you don't mean the Dept. of Irish Affairs!), as I keep saying, FIFA do not deal with Governments, they deal with their own Member Associations on matters such as these.
Still, I know from some of your previous posts that you have absolute confidence in the competence of the FAI when dealing with such matters...:D
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
AHAHAHAHAQuote:
I would be equally shocked if FIFA cleared him to play for the splinter group to the south
These fellas crack me up
I am happy that any ROI player that wants to play for NI can do so. I'll happily petition FIFA to make it so. I'm fairly confident no-one who is close to our team would jump, especially GivenQuote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
I see that we are back to normality now.
The point you refuse to accept is that Darron at present is 100% FIFA rubber stamped eligible to play for the Ireland senior team.
My source on this matter is FIFA.
My main interest in this matter is that footballers born in NI who feel so inclined should be able to declare for the Irish team.
I know that this matters deeply to many born in the North and this should be respected as is the nationality issue in the GFA.
Should this situation change with some regulation being introduced tying such kids to the federation they grow up under, their natural civil rights would be trampled upon. I would consider that to be a serious injustice.
If it was a simple matter of poaching youngsters away from the IFA, I have no interest in that.
No, that sentence (afaik) is an extract from a letter* which was sent to the FAI in October 1986.Quote:
Originally Posted by cavan_fan
However, when the IFA learned of it, they considered that FIFA were misapplying their own rules to the situation vis-a-vis NI-born players representing the FAI at senior level.
Consequently, they appealed to FIFA at the beginning of the year. FIFA has not yet made a final determination in respect of the IFA's submission; rather they have been engaged in seeking further information from the two Associations, with the FAI apparently yet to reply to FIFA's latest request.
* - I think I'm right in saying that the FAI has never made the full version of the letter public?
Christ that "ourweecountry" website has some SERIOUS sh!te talk on it
Then you with your (unnamed and attributed) source clearly know more about this than Howard Wells, CEO of the IFA who has been working on this for months and who was of this opinion yesterday:Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
"Worthington's view is shared by Irish FA Chief Executive Howard Wells who is adamant, under FIFA rules, that the Londonderry lad does not qualify to play for a team currently sitting third in Group D behind Germany and the Czech Republic.
Article 15 of the FIFA Statues states that qualification to play international football depends on one of four criteria being fulfilled:
lThe player was born on the territory of the relevant Association.
lHis biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association.
lHis grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant Association.
lHe has lived continuously for at least two years on the territory of the relevant Association.
Gibson ticks all those boxes - for Northern Ireland.
On that basis, Irish FA chiefs and boss Worthington fully expect FIFA to rule that Gibson is ineligible to play for the Republic and are eagerly awaiting the decision"
As for the rest of your post, there are a few youngsters in Belfast, no doubt the sons of good "Britons" like Billy Hutchinson, who walk around in England shirts. As such, they would like to represent England (for some unfathomable reason :eek:) Tough! If they are not eligible under FIFA Regs, they can't.
And the GFA, "civil rights" or "Natural Justice" have sod all to do with eligibility to play international football. To do so, you need to be selected by a National Association, acting in accordance with the Regulations and requirements laid down by FIFA. Any country, government or Association which doesn't like that knows what they may do - set up their own organisation (or join the GAA? ;))
As for your last point about "poaching", that is not the issue (though it may exacerbate the situation, where it appears to have gone on).
Actually, although there were quite a few from the Free State who formerly did choose to represent the IFA - see http://nifootball.blogspot.com/2006/...ionalists.html for more details - I wasn't being entirely serious in my post!Quote:
Originally Posted by cavan_fan
Personally, I'm quite happy with the basic premise that if you come from NI you play for NI, and if you come from ROI you play for ROI. Oh that life were so simple...
A already stated FIFA regard NI born as having dual national eligibility, that is the status quo ruling at present. The relevant FIFA rules for dual nationals apply.
When the FIFA committee accepted Darron's declaration for Ireland then that means the declaration is rubberstamped.
That is the source.
Howard Wells is in conflict with that. Until FIFA say otherwise Darron's declaration stays rubberstamped.
Howard Wells interpretation of FIFA regulation is just that, an interpretation which conflicts with FIFA's current ruling.
If Darron is capped on Wed. he is tied.
Whatever you say, Boss. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
egQuote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
You seem confused.
The letter sent by FIFA clarifying the right of Northern born players to represent Ireland was actually sent to the IFA in October 2006 and the FAI were copied in on the letter. The letter followed a request from the IFA concerning players representing their country at international level. The letter from Heinz Tannler, Director of FIFA's Legal Division, and Corina Luck, Head of their General Legal department stated 'the existing situation in Northern Ireland allows players to choose whether they wish to represent Northern Ireland or the Republic of Ireland'."
So i'm not sure what you mean when you say ' when the IFA learned of it ', as the confirmation letter of October 20th was sent to them.
You would be better asking the IFA for a copy of the letter as it was sent last October.
N.I isn't a country and only exists as a footballing side because it was formed before FIFAs laws on such things. So to try and apply these laws is fair how?
Take it up with FIFA, if you have a disrespect for their rulings.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
As for Howard Wells, I have serious doubts about the guy's intelligence.
He is basing his whole arguement on this document.
http://access.fifa.com/documents/sta...20901%20EN.pdf
Clearly this document does not relate to footballers born in the North who wish to "avail", for want of a better word, of their civil right for Irish citizenship.
This document refers to a player taking up a new nationality as in Brazilians suddenly deciding they want to be Qatarians.
Unfortunately life isn't that simple and it would be a disgrace for any Irish citizen through birth to be denied the chance to play for what he perceives to be his national team.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
I can't see FIFA wishing to get involved in what they know is a sensitive case as far as nationality goes on this island. I'm pretty sure they'd like to leave it up to the individual to decide where his footballing allegiance lies given the circumstances on the island regarding citizenship.
I think it's very sad that you see posters on OWC labelling Gibson a "sectarian bigot" just because he wants to play for what he sees as his national side. I believe Chris Baird also comes from a nationalist background but opted to play for NI which is fair enough. It's his decision and it should be respected but equally so should Gibson's decision.
Even if FIFA were to rule against Gibson I could not see it standing up under legal challenge should Gibson or other interested parties go down that route.
Agree 100%. Its as simple as that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maroon 7
Ealing Green is talking pure nonsense. As for Howard Wells, I think we've established that he isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.;)
Never been on it but I've heard that "ourweeminds" would be a more appropriate title for that particular website:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibs4Ever
Here FIFA's legal dept ruled on Samuel ineligibility for T&T
http://www.guardian.co.tt/archives/2...3/sports4.html
The article used for reference is article 15 in the FIFA statutes.
This is the same article that is used to rule on Irish dual nationals.
There is no way that Darron could play for Ireland unless his transfer request has been fully proccessed by FIFA's Players’ Status Committee
Strange them that the same Heinz Tannler, director, legal division for FIFA, (mentioned in the above ruling) told the IFA in October last year that 'the existing situation in Northern Ireland allows players to choose whether they wish to represent Northern Ireland or the Republic of Ireland'Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
If there was any ambiguity surrounding Northern players representing Ireland there would have been some contact surrounding players like Armagh's Henry McStay or Derry's Saul Deeny playing competitively in the u21 Euro championship qualifiers in 2005 & thus being tied to Ireland for the rest of their careers.
I appreciate Ealing Green's comments and his willingness to post on this board. After reading the comments at OWC I wonder how welcoming they are to those of a different persuasion? Based on what I read, not very.
That being said, I think while there is some ambiguity in FIFA's stance it seems, based on the weight of evidence, that we can safely make the following conclusions:
1. A player may switch from one country to another, if eligible, before he turns 21 assuming that he has not played an "A" game for the original country.
2. A scheduled senior international friendly would qualify as such an "A" game. Aiden McGeady is a great example with playing in the Community Tournament London several years ago.
So, Gibson has never played for the North in anything resembling an "A" game. He is, by virture of agreements executed between two countries a full citizen of the Republic of Ireland. He has chosen, pursuant to FIFA's mandate, to represent the Republic of Ireland.
If he is capped on Wednesday all it will do is confirm that he is eligible for the Republic and that he will never play for Northern Ireland at a senior level.
Nothing strange there, except the illusion within the "Wee Minds" that the FAI have within their vaults a secret letter from Heinz Tannler that reveals the hidden agenda of the conspirators who are out to erode the influence of the IFAQuote:
Originally Posted by co. down green
They (Henry & Saul) only get tied when they reach 21 or have played at "A" Level for Ireland.
Samuel was tied to England because he was over 21 when he tried to switch to T&T