Dublin Metro line to cost 5 Billion

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15/08/2007, 11:42 AM
pete

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macy

[*]There's not enough good photo ops for buses as opposed to shiny new trams/ trains/ metro's.

Saying you approved a couple of hundred new buses is not eye catching for Election campaigns.
15/08/2007, 4:56 PM
mypost

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint MacDara

New trainlines,metro or Luas systems are unfeasible in my opinion. The viable option seems to be more buses and bus lanes for Dublin city where the congestion is worst. The billions the government has earmarked for the metro would go further buying hundreds more buses and construction of bus lanes out to the suburbs thus benefiting the majority rather than the minority.

Meanwhile Dublin Bus have to wait for National Development funds to improve a service that doesnt make loses like the other C.I.E companies.

The Luas is a privately-owned firm. Dublin Bus however, is a subsidiary of CIE, one of the biggest funded institutions in the country. If they can't fund buses from all the train, bus, and Luas cut they get every year, why should they be funded further?

Every major city that i can think of in Europe and the USA has a Metro system. Others have tram systems. Bizarrely, the reason they're there is because they're needed. :eek: The Luas takes 20 million passengers, and almost as many cars off the road every year. What would we do without it? :confused:

There's more than enough Dublin Buses, and Bus Eireann coaches to serve the country's needs. The bad news is, most of them are either out of service or parked in the garage.
15/08/2007, 5:38 PM
pete

Quote:

Originally Posted by mypost

Every major city that i can think of in Europe and the USA has a Metro system. Others have tram systems. Bizarrely, the reason they're there is because they're needed. :eek: The Luas takes 20 million passengers, and almost as many cars off the road every year. What would we do without it? :confused:

For all its problems Luas cost maybe E1bn for both lines. This proposed cut price Metro is projected to cost 5 times as much & lets be honest no one expects it to be completed near that number & has various fundamental flaws - Under capacity being a massive one.

Underground transport is required but should only be considered when a realistic costing for future capacity & no hidden numbers is provided.
15/08/2007, 6:46 PM
MeathDrog

Quote:

Originally Posted by mypost

By right, every county in the country should have a rail service. The fact that some Ulster counties don't even have a service in this day and age is a national disgrace. The fact that in order for you to travel from Limerick to Galway by train, you have to change at Kildare is an outrage, as is the fact you can't go direct from Maynooth to Celbridge, even though it's in the same fn' county. :mad:

There should be a line from Cork to Derry connecting with Limerick-Galway- Sligo-Donegal, and from Derry to Dublin via Monaghan. Whether the demand is there or not is not the issue, if you can run a bus service into every nook and cranny in the country, you should build a railway line too. There should also be night trains, and not the joke of a situation where Heuston and Connolly are practically deserted after 8pm. Wouldn't happen anywhere else. :rolleyes::mad:

Even in Meath you can't get a tran to Dublin even though we are right beside it! Why the hell don't we have a train service? The railway line is in place and is already used to bring cargo from Tara Mines to Dublin Port
15/08/2007, 9:38 PM
Saint MacDara

Quote:

There's more than enough Dublin Buses, and Bus Eireann coaches to serve the country's needs. The bad news is, most of them are either out of service or parked in the garage.

There simply arent enough buses for the sprawlling Dublin suburbs,many stuck in traffic most of the time.Every area is crying out for new/improved services but they cant be provided because every vehicle is accounted for.

Outside my house there is a bus lane almost fully connected running into the city centre but no service fully utalizes it because theres not enough buses to go round (and it takes forever for a private company to get a licence).And now the Metro is planned to go through my area but of course it will be no use as it goes to Dublin airport when everyone else wants to go into town!

Im not disputing the fact that C.I.E are heavily subsidised but the biggest share of that money goes to Irish Rail.Do we really need another company to drain public funds like that?

Yes trains are a lovely and romantic form of public transport that's a piece of nostalgia will never be rivaled and i personally would prefer to use high speed trains like the TGV to travel around every town in Ireland and a subway system in Dublin but we have to take a reality check.Yes,by all means use the train lines we already have to capacity,new trains,news stations,feeder services but let's not go on a drunken spending spree trying to recreate the past with new lines and walking up with an expensive train set!
16/08/2007, 12:53 AM
mypost

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeathDrog

Even in Meath you can't get a tran to Dublin even though we are right beside it! Why the hell don't we have a train service?

There are 3 train stations in Meath, at Enfield, Laytown, and Gormanston. We do have disused train lines in many parts of the country, and stations that were shut down when economics dictated. However, there is more than enough money to provide an efficient public transport system nationwide these days. People whinge about the cost, but if you want the best, you pay for it. If you don't, you put up with the current situation.
16/08/2007, 2:03 AM
gilberto_eire

Quote:

Originally Posted by John83

They can't get clean water in Galway. What chance have they of getting a train?

the colleges top student scores full-marks for his jokes again!!... the water situation has been fixed, try come up with something new....also your pretty much saying that its up to us to get it...dont you realise we have a GOVERMENT situatied in DUBLIN that deal with this sort of thing?!:rolleyes:
16/08/2007, 9:25 AM
John83

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilberto_eire

the colleges top student scores full-marks for his jokes again!!... the water situation has been fixed, try come up with something new....also your pretty much saying that its up to us to get it...dont you realise we have a GOVERMENT situatied in DUBLIN that deal with this sort of thing?!:rolleyes:

Wow, clean water and still no sense of humour.

Or if you like, you can look at the website of Galway City Council (who are responsible for your water), where the latest boil water notice still indicates quite a large area [pdf warning] of contamination.
16/08/2007, 3:12 PM
gilberto_eire

Quote:

Originally Posted by John83

Wow, clean water and still no sense of humour.

Or if you like, you can look at the website of Galway City Council (who are responsible for your water), where the latest boil water notice still indicates quite a large area [pdf warning] of contamination.

yes which has been sorted a few weeks ago with the switch-over just the notice is remaining!!....

im glad you take time out to keep an eye on our water situation!!:confused:
17/08/2007, 12:37 AM
MeathDrog

Quote:

Originally Posted by mypost

There are 3 train stations in Meath, at Enfield, Laytown, and Gormanston. We do have disused train lines in many parts of the country, and stations that were shut down when economics dictated. However, there is more than enough money to provide an efficient public transport system nationwide these days. People whinge about the cost, but if you want the best, you pay for it. If you don't, you put up with the current situation.

All them 3 stations are along the coast and they are not much good to you if you live in Navan or Trim or anywhere else in the county.Laytown is a 35 minute drive from Navan so you might as well drive into Dublin
17/08/2007, 5:12 PM
mypost

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeathDrog

All them 3 stations are along the coast

Enfield is along the coast?? :confused:
17/08/2007, 9:03 PM
Poor Student

Does anyone find a lot of bus lanes in more central locations redundant due to cars parked on the kerb and larger vehicles from the main lane occupying part of the bus lane? The bus lane in Rathmines is fairly useless from 8-9 on a weekday morning for example.
17/08/2007, 9:13 PM
pete

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poor Student

Does anyone find a lot of bus lanes in more central locations redundant due to cars parked on the kerb and larger vehicles from the main lane occupying part of the bus lane? The bus lane in Rathmines is fairly useless from 8-9 on a weekday morning for example.

There so many things wrong with Dublin Transport I could not even list in one post. Its amazing paid professionals cannot detect it.

* What is the point of bus lanes if there is a gap of say 100 yards when down to 1 lane of regular traffic?
* Why have 24/7 bus lanes?
* Why have Saturday bus lanes in places with no traffic?
* Why are there so many bus stops? Some less than 100 yards away from each other.
17/08/2007, 9:34 PM
Poor Student

There was a bus lane somewhere, the Malahide Rd. I think, that hadn't had a bus route operating on it in years and traffic was needlessly jammed into one lane!
17/08/2007, 10:31 PM
MeathDrog

Quote:

Originally Posted by mypost

Enfield is along the coast?? :confused:

Apart from Enfield,but that's nearly in Kildare so not much good to me
17/08/2007, 11:20 PM
Ceirtlis

Quote:

Originally Posted by mypost

By right, every county in the country should have a rail service. The fact that some Ulster counties don't even have a service in this day and age is a national disgrace. The fact that in order for you to travel from Limerick to Galway by train, you have to change at Kildare is an outrage, as is the fact you can't go direct from Maynooth to Celbridge, even though it's in the same fn' county. :mad:

There should be a line from Cork to Derry connecting with Limerick-Galway- Sligo-Donegal, and from Derry to Dublin via Monaghan. Whether the demand is there or not is not the issue, if you can run a bus service into every nook and cranny in the country, you should build a railway line too. There should also be night trains, and not the joke of a situation where Heuston and Connolly are practically deserted after 8pm. Wouldn't happen anywhere else. :rolleyes::mad:

There is no point providing a service if their is damn all demand for it and i cant see much demand for a train service between Galway and Cork because Citylink buses have started a service between Gy and ck and there are very little people using it.
In any case there are plans to reopen some or all of the Western Rail Corridor, they were announced a year or two ago. It wont be an overnight job either as some of them lines are in a right state.
18/08/2007, 12:22 AM
mypost

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ceirtlis

There is no point providing a service if their is damn all demand for it and i cant see much demand for a train service between Galway and Cork because Citylink buses have started a service between Gy and ck and there are very little people using it.

CIE is the state transport system, and can absorb loss making routes, by road and rail. Ffs, who goes by train to Rosslare Europort? Manulla Junction? Roscommon? Ballybrophy? :confused: Yet they still have a daily service from Dublin. A Galway-Cork route would have demand, enough to half fill a Commuter train at least, as it's two major cities you're talking about.

I like the overnight Derry-Dublin bus service too, it's the way to go, but unfortunately it's the exception, rather than the norm which it should be.
18/08/2007, 5:17 PM
Schumi

Quote:

Originally Posted by mypost

who goes by train to... Manulla Junction?

Everyone who's going to Ballina, a reasonable number of people any time I was on it.
18/08/2007, 9:05 PM
onceahoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poor Student

There was a bus lane somewhere, the Malahide Rd. I think, that hadn't had a bus route operating on it in years and traffic was needlessly jammed into one lane!

That was the M50 extension down to the Malahide Road. The only bus using it was the Dart feeder from the Airport which ceased to operate a few years ago but the Bus lane didn't. Add that to the idiotically slow speed limit and it's a joke to drive on. Fingal County Council also have 24/7 bus lanes alomg the Swords Road. A joke.
20/08/2007, 9:25 AM
Macy

I don't really agree with the arguement, but I don't think that bus lane on the M32 was ever a driving lane. It was a hard shoulder before it was a bus lane afaik. Still no reason it couldn't be opened up.

I'm not sure what arguement you're trying to put up really mypost. The Rosslare route is packed everyday, as it's the commuter line for Arklow, Wicklow, Rathdrum etc. It's nicknamed the calcutta express in Bray and Greystones it's that packed by the time it gets there!

Saint MacDara there's no need for that bus lane to be empty, and it doesn't need private companies. It just needs the Government to allow Dublin Bus to buy more feckin buses. It all comes down to them being so obssessed with rail options that to justify them they run down the alternatives.
20/08/2007, 11:37 AM
mypost

Quote:

Originally Posted by macy

I'm not sure what arguement you're trying to put up really mypost. The Rosslare route is packed everyday, as it's the commuter line for Arklow, Wicklow, Rathdrum etc.

I'm talking about the specific stop, not the route.
20/08/2007, 12:23 PM
monutdfc

Quote:

Originally Posted by onceahoop

That was the M50 extension down to the Malahide Road. The only bus using it was the Dart feeder from the Airport which ceased to operate a few years ago but the Bus lane didn't. Add that to the idiotically slow speed limit and it's a joke to drive on.

It would make absolutely no difference if that bus lane was opened up - the pinches on that road are at either end, so opening the bus lane and/or increasing the speed limit would just get you to the back of a traffic jam sooner
20/08/2007, 2:59 PM
Macy

Quote:

Originally Posted by monutdfc

It would make absolutely no difference if that bus lane was opened up - the pinches on that road are at either end, so opening the bus lane and/or increasing the speed limit would just get you to the back of a traffic jam sooner

At the M50 end, is it not 2 lanes anyway - bus lane ends and both lanes are all traffic? Other end it would get you around the roundabouts and passed that rat run turn off that is always backed up at least iirc?
20/08/2007, 3:08 PM
monutdfc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macy

At the M50 end, is it not 2 lanes anyway - bus lane ends and both lanes are all traffic?

Same difference - opening the bus lane would just get you to the 2-lane queue quicker. "Pinch" was the incorrect word to use though...I meant 'hold-up'

Quote:

Other end it would get you around the roundabouts and passed that rat run turn off that is always backed up at least iirc?

You could be right - I haven't been there for about a year. My recollection is that the road splits into 3 at the other end - one left turn and two onto the roundabout - so again opening the bus lane wouldn't make a huge difference.
20/08/2007, 3:29 PM
galwayhoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ceirtlis

There is no point providing a service if their is damn all demand for it and i cant see much demand for a train service between Galway and Cork because Citylink buses have started a service between Gy and ck and there are very little people using it.
In any case there are plans to reopen some or all of the Western Rail Corridor, they were announced a year or two ago. It wont be an overnight job either as some of them lines are in a right state.

you are missing the whole point here. by linking galway and cork you also would link in limerick, ennis and perhaps even shannon airport. imagine going to shannon airport by train. or reducing commuters from Gort to Galway by giving them a train service. Or those who commute from Ennis to Limerick. Or commuters to Cork City. an Oranmore stop could also provide a link between Galway airport (obviously shuttle bus for the 2 or 3 miles from Oranmore to Carnmore) and Shannon and perhaps a link could be provided from Cork airport to Cork city.

CIE should be offering this service full stop. there are very few viable alternatives to getting to and from work in this country than by car. this has to change. a rail corridore from Cork to Galway would be beneficial and a start in the right direction.

the citylink story is not a good one as me like many others do not like busses as they are slower than travelling by car, stop too often for my liking, are restrictive and very uncomfortable. if there is any other option than bus i take it.

I for one hate sitting in traffic but have to every morning and evening as there is no other way for me to get to work. I sit in my car in traffic for 1 hour every morning and then pay to park my car for the day (i don't move it all day) before climbing into it again to sit in traffic for another hour on the way home. were i to get a bus i would be the same amount of time but less comfortable and have to walk for about 10 mins to get friom the bus stop to work and again from the bus stop to my house. if there was a train the journey would take 5 or 10 minutes. 10 minute walk to work from train station and a 5 minute drive from the station to my house on the way home!!!

BRING FORTH THE TRAINS..............
20/08/2007, 4:56 PM
pete

The differences in public transport provided in Dublin North & Dublin South are fairly clear. If you live near the sea on the south side you have a lot of options relative to other areas.

Why is only new areas of Dublin are being provided with shiny new transport options? i.e. they prefer to extend the Luas out to the countryside that provide transport to in more established suburbs where better density... Maybe no Developers willing to pay for in older areas...
20/08/2007, 5:05 PM
Bald Student

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

Maybe no Developers willing to pay for in older areas...

Or it's easier to run a train line through a new development than add one to an existing one.
23/08/2007, 8:35 PM
onceahoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by monutdfc

Same difference - opening the bus lane would just get you to the 2-lane queue quicker. "Pinch" was the incorrect word to use though...I meant 'hold-up'

You could be right - I haven't been there for about a year. My recollection is that the road splits into 3 at the other end - one left turn and two onto the roundabout - so again opening the bus lane wouldn't make a huge difference.

It's 2 lanes now at the Clonshaugh roundabout I think(before the M50 ROUNDABOUT).
24/08/2007, 2:39 PM
Ceirtlis

Quote:

Originally Posted by galwayhoop

you are missing the whole point here. by linking galway and cork you also would link in limerick, ennis and perhaps even shannon airport. imagine going to shannon airport by train. or reducing commuters from Gort to Galway by giving them a train service. Or those who commute from Ennis to Limerick. Or commuters to Cork City. an Oranmore stop could also provide a link between Galway airport (obviously shuttle bus for the 2 or 3 miles from Oranmore to Carnmore) and Shannon and perhaps a link could be provided from Cork airport to Cork city

I agree it would be good to have a rail link to Shannon, there are no tracks there at present i dont think so it would be a big enough project but it could be done i suppose. Ennis is already linked to Limerick by train. I could see alot of people just driving or getting a taxi out to Galway airport though. It is only about 7 or 8 miles from town and having to change transport at Oranmore would just make it a more complicated journey than it has to be and there are very few flights going through there because of the length of the runway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by galwayhoop

the citylink story is not a good one as me like many others do not like busses as they are slower than travelling by car, stop too often for my liking, are restrictive and very uncomfortable. if there is any other option than bus i take it

.

The novelty of the choo choo could wear off quickly if you had to get it every morning;).

Quote:

Originally Posted by galwayhoop

I for one hate sitting in traffic but have to every morning and evening as there is no other way for me to get to work. I sit in my car in traffic for 1 hour every morning and then pay to park my car for the day (i don't move it all day) before climbing into it again to sit in traffic for another hour on the way home. were i to get a bus i would be the same amount of time but less comfortable and have to walk for about 10 mins to get friom the bus stop to work and again from the bus stop to my house. if there was a train the journey would take 5 or 10 minutes. 10 minute walk to work from train station and a 5 minute drive from the station to my house on the way home!!!

I can still see alot people thinking ,"if it is taking me as long and is costing me as much to get to work why bother getting the train," a good percentage of people are still going to have to get in the car and drive to the train station anyways and get parking there

Quote:

Originally Posted by galwayhoop

BRING FORTH THE TRAINS..............

It doesnt matter what i think anyways because like i said they are going reopening the thing anyways, http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/wes...l_corridor.asp
25/08/2007, 8:49 AM
mypost

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ceirtlis

The novelty of the choo choo could wear off quickly if you had to get it every morning;).

If you provide a clean, comfortable, fast, modern, efficient service, it won't. You only have to look at the success of the Luas in Dublin as a prime example of that. But if you don't provide facilities, the current situation will remain as it is.
27/08/2007, 10:22 AM
galwayhoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ceirtlis

I can still see alot people thinking ,"if it is taking me as long and is costing me as much to get to work why bother getting the train," a good percentage of people are still going to have to get in the car and drive to the train station anyways and get parking there

well you didn't read my post then.

Car: 2 hours per day
Bus: 2 hours plus 20 mins walking time
Train: 20 - 25 mins total.

it probably would cost pretty much the same but by gaining an hour and a half each day would nearly equate to an extra working day per week!!

i disagree with you totally about the whole 'novelty' factor. having lived abroad i took public transport to and from work daily as it was cost effective and convienent not to mention quicker. the fact there are no viable alternatives to driving to work for most in this country is ridiculous in this day and age!
27/08/2007, 10:47 AM
jebus

Since I'm practically living in three cities at the moment (Dublin, Cork, Limerick) I think I can add a bit in here, as I generally think public transport in this country is the pits, outside of Dublin in particular. I mean most towns outisde of the other main cities have 2-3 buses going back and forth each day, and usually if you are in one of those towns, you can't get to the city, or back to the town after 6pm, sometimes as early as 4pm, which is disgraceful. But here's the problems I've found with Irish Rail, and Bus Eireann

The main problem with Irish Rail at the moment is the cost. For example, I recently was looking into the price of flying from Cork to Dublin, rather than go by train, as IrishRail charge roughly 70euro for the trip, I then found I could fly the same route, on the same days I wanted for 66euro (but sadly I'm a left wing hippie scumbag and can't because of my carbon footprint). I actually enjoy the trip with IrishRail, as I think their modern trains are pretty comfortable, the staff are friendly, adn whilst the price of their food is a rip off I wouldn't complain too much about it, as the price of food when travelling to anywhere, by whatever means, is generally a rip off.

As for Bus Eireann, well having had to travel on them countless times before I have just given up using the bus as an intercity means of transport. They are terrible uncomfortable, in particular any of the less modern buses, the staff are, in general, ****ing obnoxious idiots, the price isn't too good either, and I have also noticed that Bus Eireann only ever build bus shelters on their routes for the buses that are travelling to Dublin, and never coming from Dublin, which ****es me off greatly. In conclusion, if the Irish people ever decide to riot, for whatever reason, my first fire bomb will be going straight in Bus Eireann's HQ window.
27/08/2007, 12:23 PM
pete

Its been a long time since i used the train between Dublin-Cork. Main reasons for this in no particular order:
* It takes 3 hours which is too slow. Car will be quicker as long as not peak time plus gets me door-to-door. More Motorways means car will be getting quicker.
* Schedule - No trains after 8pm, Early morning times not good. Plane has better schedule.
* Cost. Car or Plane is cheaper.
* Unreliable. I have not used the new trains but I have the impression that Train may breakdown & take twice as long for journey.

IMO most people will chose to drive instead of the train as they just too slow. IrishRail went to the trouble of getting new trains but why not get faster trains & also electric as diesel is out dated.

The major cities should have train service while the rest will just have to use buses.
27/08/2007, 12:50 PM
jebus

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

* Unreliable. I have not used the new trains but I have the impression that Train may breakdown & take twice as long for journey.

To be honest, bar last Friday, I haven't had much problem with train schedules since the new trains came into operation, and even last Friday we were delayed for three hours because someone had jumped in front of the train and the gardai and other emergency services had to clear us to continue before we could
27/08/2007, 3:35 PM
Student Mullet

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

IrishRail went to the trouble of getting new trains but why not get faster trains & also electric as diesel is out dated.

The trains aren't the problem. They're laying new tracks between Dublin and Kildare to separate commuters from inter city trains and there's a speed restriction during the works.
27/08/2007, 4:17 PM
pete

Quote:

Originally Posted by Student Mullet

The trains aren't the problem. They're laying new tracks between Dublin and Kildare to separate commuters from inter city trains and there's a speed restriction during the works.

I believe they would need to upgrade the entire track to increase speeds. BTW By fast I mean 100mph+ so a fast train does not get overtaken by a car.
27/08/2007, 4:45 PM
mypost
Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

Its been a long time since i used the train between Dublin-Cork. Main reasons for this in no particular order:
* It takes 3 hours which is too slow. Car will be quicker as long as not peak time plus gets me door-to-door. More Motorways means car will be getting quicker.
* Schedule - No trains after 8pm, Early morning times not good. Plane has better schedule.
* Unreliable. I have not used the new trains but I have the impression that Train may breakdown & take twice as long for journey.
- When we go to play Cork, the bus has to leave base 6 hours before ko, to ensure we make it on time.
- The last train from Cork-Dublin is at 8.30pm, last from Heuston is at 9pm
- The new Dublin-Cork trains are state of the art, comfortable, modern, and don't break down. What you expect in a wealthy country.
28/08/2007, 10:08 AM
galwayhoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by mypost

[LIST]What you expect in a wealthy country.

ammmm .... clean water! ;)
28/08/2007, 4:18 PM
jebus

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

I believe they would need to upgrade the entire track to increase speeds. BTW By fast I mean 100mph+ so a fast train does not get overtaken by a car.

On that point, aren't the tracks in Ireland completely the wrong shape to ever bring in anything close to France's 'bullet trains'? France's tracks are laid similar to the Manhatten grid, and so can get up to 100mph as it is practically always along a straight track. From being on a train I presume that Irelands tracks are....bendy....i suppose is the only word I can think of
28/08/2007, 4:20 PM
John83

Quote:

Originally Posted by jebus

On that point, aren't the tracks in Ireland completely the wrong shape to ever bring in anything close to France's 'bullet trains'? France's tracks are laid similar to the Manhatten grid, and so can get up to 100mph as it is practically always along a straight track. From being on a train I presume that Irelands tracks are....bendy....i suppose is the only word I can think of

Yeah, pretty much. Could be fixed in some areas, but there are more pressing issues with the rail network.

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