Double standards that annoy you

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

actually this gets me thinking about last week, I went into a hairdressers, which was unisex. I noticed that there were a lot of black people in there, but it didnt bother me, then i noticed that the only person in there waiting was a black guy with a shaved head and i thought he cant possibly be getting his cut. I heard them sorta talking and looking as though, what the hell is this fella doing here. THey then asked "Can i help you?" I was like is this unisex and they said yes, and i said oh right well do i need an appointment or can i just get it cut, and they were like, no barber isnt here. I then said well can one of you not cut it and they said no. Extremely unhelpful and made me feel really uncomfortable, and I they said nothing more, I said ok where can I get my haircut and they go there is a barber up the road....... THe reason they did this was because I was White, and i havent felt so ****ed off in a long time and I was rather embarrassed by the whole thing. CAN YOU IMANGINE IF I HAD DONE THIS to a black person, or a black person had experienced this there would be outrage ( based on hair type ) and s/he would have sued. Yet I just had to go on about my business.

This stuff really ****es me off cos they, the UBER-PC brigade never comment on something like this but they get on their high horses and ride into moral high ground when its the other way round.

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Well at the very least you could ring the manager and complain about your treatment , if you wanted to you could ring the equality board they are very helpfull .

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Originally Posted by stann

Black people being able to use the 'N' word when whites aren't might have something to to with the fact that whites, generally, were not oppressed, forced into slavery, or treated like an inferior species for much of our recorded history, and still are in many areas.
I think given what we (as a race) did to them (as a race) over many years, not being able to use a certain word or two, or having to put up with some people who are a bit antsy about seeming racist in any 'do I pick him or you' situation, is not that much of a burden, no? There might be more important things to fret about.
This is about the top of the thread, BTW, not Paul's salon escapade. That just sounds like good old-fashioned rudeness.

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Where'nt slaves picked from the west coast of ireland ?

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

actually this gets me thinking about last week, I went into a hairdressers, which was unisex. I noticed that there were a lot of black people in there, but it didnt bother me, then i noticed that the only person in there waiting was a black guy with a shaved head and i thought he cant possibly be getting his cut. I heard them sorta talking and looking as though, what the hell is this fella doing here. THey then asked "Can i help you?" I was like is this unisex and they said yes, and i said oh right well do i need an appointment or can i just get it cut, and they were like, no barber isnt here. I then said well can one of you not cut it and they said no. Extremely unhelpful and made me feel really uncomfortable, and I they said nothing more, I said ok where can I get my haircut and they go there is a barber up the road....... THe reason they did this was because I was White, and i havent felt so ****ed off in a long time and I was rather embarrassed by the whole thing. CAN YOU IMANGINE IF I HAD DONE THIS to a black person, or a black person had experienced this there would be outrage ( based on hair type ) and s/he would have sued. Yet I just had to go on about my business.

This stuff really ****es me off cos they, the UBER-PC brigade never comment on something like this but they get on their high horses and ride into moral high ground when its the other way round.

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I bet the real reason is, you have horrible ginger hair and even white barbers hate cutting it.

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Originally Posted by Jamjar

I bet the real reason is, you have horrible ginger hair and even white barbers hate cutting it.

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:D
Or maybe it was the Mayo Gah shirt he was wearing?;)

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if you wanted to you could ring the equality board they are very helpfull .

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ya somehow i think they would feel i was taking the mick and not take it seriouslly, even if on the phone they appeared to do so.
GAVZAC I mentioned there was a black guy sitting there ( i dont know what he was ) as to show that obviouslly it was a unisex salon ( maybe he had just got his hair cut or barber), however it could be the case that he was just a friend or whatever....

OSO, i wasn't wearing any "gah" jersey!!! Nor do i have ginger hair. Who was it that said about it being a specialist job to use a razor....please come on now think again, good boy. Even if ye cant see past that, if its a unisex salon, it should allow for both anytime, otherwise signs should say different.

Stann, i have done nothing to any slaves or black people or anyone else, some people cant keep using that excuse for their "behaviour".

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

ya somehow i think they would feel i was taking the mick and not take it seriouslly, even if on the phone they appeared to do so.
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No they take it seriously i was on to them before over Ladies nights in clubs i felt i was being disscriminated against by the club forcing me to pay just because i was a guy . Same club has been hit for that and stopping an old man ( 60 ) entering because of his age .

I did it because they have a "not tonight bud poilicy " if 3 of ye walk up they will pick one guy and just not allow him in for no reason just to be *****s running the night . I didnt follow it through to court but i should have as an other bloke did and he got 2 grand off them !!!!

I wonder how I could prove it though, its like tupac me against the world, it was basically me and 5 or so of them.....ill look up the equivalent over here just to see.

Btw fair play on following that up, so many times i have said i would do the same but never followed up after getting in somewhere else and sobering up.

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Originally Posted by stann

Black people being able to use the 'N' word when whites aren't might have something to to with the fact that whites, generally, were not oppressed, forced into slavery, or treated like an inferior species for much of our recorded history, and still are in many areas.
I think given what we (as a race) did to them (as a race) over many years, not being able to use a certain word or two, or having to put up with some people who are a bit antsy about seeming racist in any 'do I pick him or you' situation, is not that much of a burden, no? There might be more important things to fret about.

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Dead right. "We can't call black people n*****s!" ... "Why don't they have Music of White Origin Awards?" ... God, they get EVERYthing.

Get the **** over it.

It is in my arse about "double standards", either. Jesus, there's borderline racist moaning in here you wouldn't get off a pack of Brits*.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

This stuff really ****es me off cos they, the UBER-PC brigade never comment on something like this but they get on their high horses and ride into moral high ground when its the other way round.

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Maybe the UBER-PC Brigade didn't deploy on this occasion because they received a telegram in the nick of time from Bletchley Park where the cryptanalysts had, after being up for four days, finally cracked the message "tHe BaRbEr IsN't HeRe".

(I hope it really was racism, though, obviously, and that the blacks have finally had enough and come and slit your throat in your bed. You were probably the first white person any of them had ever seen. You must have looked like a ghost to them.)

*;), ar eagla na heagla...

if i could see the back of my head, i could shave it off, anyone can do this. the point is the same boz, yet the **** take arguments are coming back again. "ah sure a black person cant be racist toward a white person", no no that cant happen. :rolleyes:

I amn't and havent lost sleep over it, but this is the exact thing I knew people here would say and do, so my point in case has been proved.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

if i could see the back of my head, i could shave it off, anyone can do this. the point is the same boz, yet the **** take arguments are coming back again. "ah sure a black person cant be racist toward a white person", no no that cant happen.

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You have to be taking the ****....you walk into a barbers and the barber isnt there(i dont see what reason you have not to believe them) and you expect just anyone to shave your head.

1) Why would they if its not their job? Just to please you....
2) Theyd probably get in trouble for doing things that arent their job

Unless you are a mind reader I can see no reason to believe this was in any way racist or that it was because of being white :eek:

Maybe Im missing something..............

And for the record I wouldnt think it was racist if it was the other way around either

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

if i could see the back of my head, i could shave it off, anyone can do this. the point is the same boz, yet the **** take arguments are coming back again. "ah sure a black person cant be racist toward a white person", no no that cant happen. :rolleyes:

I amn't and havent lost sleep over it, but this is the exact thing I knew people here would say and do, so my point in case has been proved.

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:D

Of course a black person can be racist towards a white person (and hopefully they were in this case, more power to them :rolleyes:), but not every black person can cut a white person's hair -- another thing the PC Brigade won't tell you!!!

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You have to be taking the ****....Maybe Im missing something..............

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read from the begining, i walk into a unisex salon. How could you possibly walk into a barber, when its opened and the barber or at least one not be there?

still missing the point boz, its a unisex salon, it never said a "unisex salon for black people" even if it had that would be discriminating against me because of my colour

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but not every black person can cut a white person's hair

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Finally, no they cant, but when they work in a unisex salon I would assume they can, and if they cant again, they are discriminating. Until you can make a valid point, without resorting to stupid smileys to be either patronising or condescending then dont bother making a point, as its been done by about 20 posters before ye.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

read from the begining, i walk into a unisex salon. How could you possibly walk into a barber, when its opened and the barber or at least one not be there?

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I did read it. Its very possible that they have seperate people for men and wonens hair.....

He could have been on lunch, felt sick and went to the chemist, been rushed to the doctor, had to meet someone urgently, gone to get more supplies or a million other things.

You have no idea and yet you automatically jump to the racism conclusion. Thats just as bad as when black people do it.

It couldnt have just been bad luck no :rolleyes:

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He could have been on lunch, felt sick and went to the chemist, been rushed to the doctor, had to meet someone urgently, gone to get more supplies or a million other things.

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she said he wasnt here, so i assumed ok i can wait, then she said oh well he wont be here until saturday maybe....my point about the black guy originally ( but i didnt allude to it )is I thought he was the barber to be honest, but I could well have been wrong.

When my mum buys the Northern Standard and I buy it too. That annoys me.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

she said he wasnt here, so i assumed ok i can wait, then she said oh well he wont be here until saturday maybe....my point about the black guy originally ( but i didnt allude to it )is I thought he was the barber to be honest, but I could well have been wrong.

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Maybe he was on holidays and they were only doing ladies til he returned? Who knows?

Can you say with any degree of certainty that you were turned away because you were white?

Sorry but these kinda presumptions just bug me whether its black or white people making them

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Maybe he was on holidays and they were only doing ladies til he returned? Who knows?

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thats a very fair point, but why lie then and not just say he is on holidays? If that were the case then fair enough. Its still doesnt excuse how they acted and spoke though. But as pointed out before that could just be extreme rudeness/no manners/ignorant.

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Can you say with any degree of certainty that you were turned away because you were white?

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I cant other than to say, the way i was spoken to, how I felt, how they made me feel uncomfortable, and that I have seen black fellas in there before and since when walking by......

Is it a double standard that a white person would be asked to give reasonable proof that they racially mistreated, whereas a black person might not get the same grilling?

Not talking about micls here, moreso if such a story was to be considered newsworthy by the national press. I highly doubt they would check full sources on a black person being turned away for their skin colour before running the story, but they probably would for a white person*

* Unless they work for the Daily Mail of course :p

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

still missing the point boz, its a unisex salon, it never said a "unisex salon for black people" even if it had that would be discriminating against me because of my colour.

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I know you would just LOVE to be refused from a place that called itself "a unisex salon for black people". Notwithstanding the fact that a salon whose expertise was solely black people's hairdos wouldn't be described as such -- more likely "Afro-Caribbean Stylings" or something -- it still wouldn't be discriminating against you, any more than all the ladies' hairdressers in the world are discriminating against you as we speak because you have men's hair.

Your pathetic inferred victimhood throughout this thread is quite boorishly demeaning of actual racial discrimination, or discrimination on any grounds.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Finally, no they cant, but when they work in a unisex salon I would assume they can, and if they cant again, they are discriminating.

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You assume a lot of things, it seems. If a hairdresser works in a unisex salon, the only conclusion you can draw is that he/she cuts men's hair or women's hair or both.

I'm really at a loss trying to understand why you "assume" that a black hairdresser in a unisex salon would be more likely to be able to cut male Caucasian hair than a black barber in a men-only shop, unless you have some strange understanding of the word 'unisex', or furthermore why you think that the inability of a barber who specializes in black people's hair to cut white people's hair to the same degree of expertise is -- again! -- "discriminating".

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Until you can make a valid point, without resorting to stupid smileys to be either patronising or condescending then dont bother making a point, as its been done by about 20 posters before ye.

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You do not seem to appreciate that condescension remains the appropriate tone to take while making the same points you continue to be unable to understand. :ah, bless:

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Is it a double standard that a white person would be asked to give reasonable proof that they racially mistreated, whereas a black person might not get the same grilling?

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thank you jebus. or ridiculed, isn't that bullying too, if foot.ie can be sued for libel can i sue for bullying and pish taking!? :( :p

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Originally Posted by jebus

Is it a double standard that a white person would be asked to give reasonable proof that they racially mistreated, whereas a black person might not get the same grilling?

Not talking about micls here, moreso if such a story was to be considered newsworthy by the national press. I highly doubt they would check full sources on a black person being turned away for their skin colour before running the story, but they probably would for a white person*

* Unless they work for the Daily Mail of course :p

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A black straw man is still a straw man.

As far as I am aware the Equality Tribunal requests factual evidence in all cases. Is this not the case?

If you're talking solely about the British-spawned media, then they are of course beneath contempt and have nothing to do with rational debate.

boz, very good post, it only took you a few hours to come back with that, unfortunately at work I work, and only get to post quick replys. However well written, constructed and thought-provoking your post may well be, it still stands, it was a unisex hair salon, that had pictures of men and women on the walls, like most salons. they didnt cut my hair, and made up some pathetic excuse whilst at the same time just looked at me like i was bothering them or I shouldnt have even entered the place, laughing as to say "what is he doing here", fair play if you have never experienced, i am not trying to play the victim, I am just trying to put across how I felt and my view on this. If I were a black person and came on with any of this, it would straight away have brought out the PC brigade without a second thought.

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You do not seem to appreciate that condescension remains the appropriate tone to take while making the same points you continue to be unable to understand. :ah, bless:

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Nice finish though to your post, quite apt really, to your overall "tone"...im sure you will get me ;)

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If you're talking solely about the British-spawned media, then they are of course beneath contempt and have nothing to do with rational debate.

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Of course, because you say so :)

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Originally Posted by Erstwhile Bóz

If you're talking solely about the British-spawned media, then they are of course beneath contempt and have nothing to do with rational debate.

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Oh I'm talking solely about British spawned media, who, like it or not, seem to reflect the attitudes of society better than anything we currently have. It's sad that most people's views are shaped by tabloids and their ilk (The Indo, Daily Mail etc.), but that's the way it is. If they run a story saying a white/black guy was racially abused in a hair salon people will form their opinions around the headline (does anyone actually read tabloid articles?) and go from there

great posting Erstwhile. We have a thread like this every now and again :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

However well written, constructed and thought-provoking your post may well be, it still stands, it was a unisex hair salon, that had pictures of men and women on the walls, like most salons. they didnt cut my hair, and made up some pathetic excuse whilst at the same time just looked at me like i was bothering them or I shouldnt have even entered the place, laughing as to say "what is he doing here", fair play if you have never experienced, i am not trying to play the victim, I am just trying to put across how I felt and my view on this. If I were a black person and came on with any of this, it would straight away have brought out the PC brigade without a second thought.

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But you see, that's grand and I have no problem with that at all and every sympathy with you, UNTIL your last sentence, where you make this mental leap.

Thanks for the compliment on my post, by the way, but I must disabuse you of the notion that <time of post> - <time of reply> = <time spent replying>. I'm able to keep different windows open on my computer; the IT department here are amazing.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Nice finish though to your post, quite apt really, to your overall "tone"...im sure you will get me ;)

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I'm quite sure I don't know what you could possibly be talking about...;)

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Of course, because you say so :)

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We know so. It is an immutable truth of any Irish internet forum, a fall-back aphorism of brotherhood in times of divisive debate.

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We know so. It is an immutable truth of any Irish internet forum, a fall-back aphorism of brotherhood in times of divisive debate.

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well if nothing else you bring humour to over-ride( overshadow perhaps ) your inability to back up points, and that my lad, is very impressive :)

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But you see, that's grand and I have no problem with that at all and every sympathy with you, UNTIL your last sentence, where you make this mental leap.

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The mental leap doesnt follow much of a neural network, or does it?* Because the whole idea of neural networks is assumptions can be made based on the previous linked-list. Put another way, I have seen it from before, if a poster makes a post anyway like this then its jumped on and there are many a slapped wrist.

*Unless, of course, you never knew whether I was black or white :)

when i say jumped on, I mean its taken straight away as being racist, discriminatory whatever you want to call it.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

well if nothing else you bring humour to over-ride( overshadow perhaps ) your inability to back up points, and that my lad, is very impressive :)

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Whereas you, The Assumer, merely have to consult your neural networks to back up your leaps of logic. What have I not backed up? I'm working with the facts you have supplied and drawing unspectacular conclusions.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Put another way, I have seen it from before, if a poster makes a post anyway like this then its jumped on and there are many a slapped wrist.

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But what do you think are the reasons for this? And what do you see as being the defining characteristics of your post or posts like it? Honest questions.

(Please refrain from invoking any images of the Über-PC Brigade in your answer.)

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Originally Posted by Dodge

great posting Erstwhile. We have a thread like this every now and again :rolleyes:

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Good times, good memories, thanks for bringing that one back Dodge :p

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Originally Posted by Dodge

We have a thread like this every now and again :rolleyes:

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So ... circular! It's ... it's beautiful. I'll desist, so.

Racism is all about the context and nobody but paul_oshea was there, man, so sure I'll leave it at that.

why is there such a necessity to be PC. irish people are such hypocrites, they go on about ya cant say this, ya cant say that. then at the same time, knacker this knacker that, smelly knackers, branding a whole section of community witht the same brush..depriving them of work and entrance to social establishments.

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Originally Posted by citizenerased

why is there such a necessity to be PC. irish people are such hypocrites, they go on about ya cant say this, ya cant say that. then at the same time, knacker this knacker that, smelly knackers, branding a whole section of community witht the same brush..depriving them of work and entrance to social establishments.

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As a member of a pub owning family I'd like to say that we don't allow 'knackers' in to our bar, be they part of the travelling community, or just plain ol' scumbags. History has taught a lot of people in the trade that you're asking for trouble by letting them in, and I've always found that to be true. It's a shame, as I'm sure some of them are decent people who want a quiet pint, sadly since they choose to live as a community, they can die as a community as well*

*figure of speech obviously, just in case someone started on me for advocating a genocide

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why is there such a necessity to be PC. irish people are such hypocrites, they go on about ya cant say this, ya cant say that. then at the same time, knacker this knacker that, smelly knackers, branding a whole section of community witht the same brush..depriving them of work and entrance to social establishments.

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exactly.

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But what do you think are the reasons for this? And what do you see as being the defining characteristics of your post or posts like it? Honest questions.

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I cant. Because I am banned from a certain sub-forum, but I remember a couple of posters getting their wrist slapped ( me not included - for once :D )

It just goes back to citizens point really. You, Irish are complete hypocrites * :D

Please note the un-PC grammatically incorrect semantics above without the use of the word "we". :p

One thing I notice a lot which I detest is the way some people are treated because of their nationality, not necessarily racist.

For instance, when George Best died there was lots of noise down here as people calling him the "greatest Irish footballer ever". He was Northern Irish and I'm sure there were a lot of Southerners who didn't like him during hios playing days because of his roots yet when he dies and everyone's calling him the greatest, the papers are very quick to jump on the bandwagon and call him Irish.

Another instance is with Andy Murray. When he wins he's British but when he's doing badly he's Scottish.

I hate that.

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Originally Posted by citizenerased

why is there such a necessity to be PC. irish people are such hypocrites, they go on about ya cant say this, ya cant say that. then at the same time, knacker this knacker that, smelly knackers

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Are you sure its the same people?

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Are you sure its the same people?

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All those Irish, they're all the same.

Actually I'd just like to further my previous point. I have never called any member of the travelling community 'knacker', without the added ' ' of course. I don't think I'm being completely hypocritical, a small bit maybe, but not totally when I say I wouldn't allow them into my bar.

Maybe you have to be in the service industry to understand, but anyone who has ever worked in a bar will tell you that when you get a call that there is a traveller funeral, wedding, party etc. on in town you close your door. The reasons for this are, generally they don't come in to town for drinks, unless it's an occasion, and when there is an occasion they tend, as a group, to get completely bladdered and rowdy, and are quite difficult to get rid of when you are closing up. Furthermore, your main customers, the guys who come in everyday of the week, wouldn't want their night ruined by having to listen to people singing and shouting, people dancing around etc. If students did it I wouldn't let them in, same goes for anyone else.

I also worked in a cinema when I was younger, and there was quite a few instances on a Sunday afternoon (Rathkeale travellers tend to go to the cinema in Limerick at this time) where they had to be asked to leave for talking loudly during the movie, and sometimes for smearing their own **** on the bathroom walls (normally it would be the kid/teenage ones who did this particular act), so after a while the cinema started banning particular families of them from coming in. I don't count that as discrimination, they were given a chance, and blew it, and the cinema had to start thinking about their well-mannered customers.

As I said, it's a shame it happens, but it's also a shame that there is a sizeable element amongst them that wants to cause trouble, or at the very least don't give a toss about other people and their enjoyment. As a group that are proud of their community ties, and the fact that they are so closely knit, then the reprocussions of the whole group being banned from pubs, cinemas etc. for the actions of some shouldn't be considered in the same league as racism, or homophobic abuse in my opinion

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

I didn't do anything to any coloured (sorry don't know which word to use there) person, neither did anyone else on here
Why should we have to fret about them? The world doesn't owe them a living because of something that happened decades ago.
It's the equivalent of not being able to walk past an English person without them offering you a good feed

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Specious agrument. We're talking about races here, not individuals.

Does it really kill you not to be able to use a word? Use a different one. How hard is that?
Would you like being called 'Mick' or 'bogtrotter' all the time by British bulldog combat 18 types? Or would you say, well they can't mean me cos my name's not Michael and I've never even been in a bog?

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Another instance is with Andy Murray. When he wins he's British but when he's doing badly he's Scottish.

I hate that.

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when harrington won the open last week, they went "Padraig tops the list" and then in the paragraph box below it says "HOW THE OTHER BRITISH GOLFERS FARED"

I have so many examples of that, but I wont bother going into it. He( as in anyone ) is an Ulsterman/British when doing well, but he is Irish when doing bad.

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Maybe you have to be in the service industry to understand, but anyone who has ever worked in a bar will tell you that when you get a call that there is a traveller funeral, wedding, party etc. on in town you close your door. The reasons for this are, generally they don't come in to town for drinks, unless it's an occasion, and when there is an occasion they tend, as a group, to get completely bladdered and rowdy, and are quite difficult to get rid of when you are closing up. Furthermore, your main customers, the guys who come in everyday of the week, wouldn't want their night ruined by having to listen to people singing and shouting, people dancing around etc. If students did it I wouldn't let them in, same goes for anyone else.

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Yes I know what you mean, we own a B&B at home anyhow, we let travellers stay twice, both times they knicked all the sheets and towels. Last time we let travellers stay because of this, jebus the point you are trying to get across, is you have to be a realist ( because of past experiences ) when working in the services industry. Its as simple as that, its harsh, but its true.

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Originally Posted by anto1208

Where'nt slaves picked from the west coast of ireland ?

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Yes you're right, the handful of slaves taken from Ireland by the Barbary corsairs (North Africans and various converted Muslims mainly) easily makes up for the thousands and thousands and thousands of black Africans that were taken.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I have so many examples of that, but I wont bother going into it. He( as in anyone ) is an Ulsterman/British when doing well, but he is Irish when doing bad.

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They don't have to be Ulstermen, I've heard English reporters calling Robbie Keane British. :mad: