I struggle to name a single right back in the world that is unarguably better than Finnan so I'd say he is definitely world class. Same for Given.Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
Printable View
I struggle to name a single right back in the world that is unarguably better than Finnan so I'd say he is definitely world class. Same for Given.Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
easy, Daniel Alves for starters.
would take finnan over daniel alves any day. Alves is a hyped up product. Finnan for consistency. Alves was pure sh*t in the Uefa cup final. Never seen Finn have a stinker to be honest. Alves is rated for going forward. A full back is rated for defending, so its finnan by a country mile.
Alves is Brazilian and Puyol is a great player .Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
Puyol is muck if he played for Ireland nobody would rate him.Quote:
Originally Posted by gustavo
quite the opposite , if Puyol was Irish we would all be raving about him and how fantastic he like , like we do for Dunne
Nobody other than us then. I personally don't think Dunne is brilliant tbh as he is always liable to do something stupid that may cost you the game but he's by far the best central defender we have at present.Quote:
Originally Posted by gustavo
so name for us one time when he cost ireland the game ?Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
Absolutely!Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
Judging on his performances of last season, Finann is the best right full back in the world.
France in Dublin when he passed the ball to Thierry Henry. How do you like those apples? He also has made mistakes that could have cost us the game but we got away with it. Wasn't it his fault that Bellamy got clean through against Wales or was that McShane?Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerMilla
i think mcshane will prove to be world class. He reminds me of Kevin moran.
I think McShane will prove to be a good Premiership defender in time but I can't see him ever being World Class.Quote:
Originally Posted by billybunter
you are kidding me arent you ? he didnt even touch the ball for that goal ? or are you talking about a chance that henry missed ? your post above is absolute rubbish.Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
he has been nothing but excellent for Ireland , far from world calls though so apologies for going off topic , i agree with tuff paddys assesment of world class above.
I thought you were looking for examples of things he did that could cost us the game and was referring to a chance Henry missed where Dunne passed the ball to him just outside the box as an example of him making mistakes that can cost you the game. Dunne makes mistakes quite often for a central defender irrespective of him being adored by Man City fans (their team is sh*t anyway).Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerMilla
fair enough but no I was looking for things that actually cost us the game, agreed that city are sh1t. any odds on sven for first sacking of the season?Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
Quote:
However, Michael Carrick would not (imo), even though he is performs that role for the English club champions and is good enough to be in contention for many international teams.
LOL if he had stayed at spurs would he have made the frame EG? :D
Maybe you'd prefer Alves than Finnan but would that make Finnan a complete non-contender for World XI which is the suggested test for being considered world class.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Personally I'm not sure a World XI consideration is a good approach especially when you have to take team balance into account (attacking full backs versus defensive ones etc). In my own personal view of world class I'm not sure I could actually name a right back to to be considered truly world class (Alves not defensive enough) though you'd have to name one to complete a World XI and I would at least shortlist Finnan for that. Would have no problem with Given in goal though by any measure you choose to use.
Gary Neville has been the best right back in the world for a number of years, a true world class footballer
He's muck. Almost as bad as Puyol.Quote:
Originally Posted by livehead1
If he was Irish you'd never shut up about him. Same as Fletcher, as in the other thread. And yet again we see how utterly biased you are in favour of Irish players when it comes to discussing merits.Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
I challenge you to argue with Neville's career stats-he is at least on a par with Finnan, even in the autumn of his career. Without a doubt one of the most consistent full backs in the world, much like Finnan.
And also about Puyol-he may not achieve a lot at international level and shine on the world stage but then Spain have never shone on the world stage. Watch him in a Spanish league game and tell me he's 'muck'. Nonsense. You don't play week in week out for one of the best club teams in Europe if you're 'muck'.
Besides which, he's a centre back and can't really be compared to Finnan.
I'm afraid you don't get nearly 100 caps for England and be "muck". He's won almost every domestic honour, has never shirked a challenge, showed how good he is going forward through the years, his link up with Beckham was feared world wide and he's now captain of one of the biggest clubs in the world, but sure if hes muck hes muck!Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
Puyol can play full back also and has done on numerous occasions in the past. Didn't know that now did you? And the tired old he plays for one of the best teams in Europe so he's great argument is, and never has been, true. Many great teams have average and/or even poor players. Anyway Barcelona are hardly renowned as one of the best teams in Europe because of their water tight defence are they?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymro
As for Gary Neville. Over hyped English drivel. He can't get forward to save his life. Average at best and even then that's only recently in his career. He was total rubbish in his earlier years. Remember John O'Shea (yes he's Irish) plays for United also (and the aforementioned Darren Fletcher). I suppose that means they are two of the best players in Europe also? As for me being biased don't I regularly diss Irish players for not being any use on these forums when others often (nearly always in fact) disagree with me?
As for getting 100 caps for England and still not being any good. Yeah remind me when did they last look like winning anything in International football? I've become a rich man from betting against them winning anything in Ladbrokes. Rich I tell you.
And no I actually think Finnan is good because he is so and not because he's Irish while I think Puyol and Neville are overrated muck because they are so.
Cmyro and Livehead you wouldn't be partial to a few prawn sandwiches in Manchester the odd time now would you?
ah ha ha hahahhahaa ha hahahah h...what a load of ******....gary neville world class...!!Quote:
Originally Posted by livehead1
Ah would ye stop....I would be the first to say that there's plenty of over-hyped English players around. Sure Neville would only have to look over his left shoulder to see one of the biggest culprits (Ferdinand) but to say that he's over hyped is ridiculuous. He pretty much ticks every box for what a full back should have...Despite what you say he regularly gets forward,is an excellent crosser of the ball and is easily as solid defensively as Finnan. Top this off with the fact that he is an excellent header of the ball and a good organiser and you have one of the best full backs in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
But sure what does that fool Ferguson know anyway? :rolleyes:
Wasn't he the man who bought Veron for 28 million? Taibi for 4.5 million? Park Ji Sung for 6? I could go on but you get he point (Ferdinand 33 mill, Carrick 18 mill, Forlan 8 mill etc etc etc).Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Ogba
He also plays JOS regularly also so perhaps we should build the Ireland team around him what? Another tired old argument that holds no water. The united supporters are all coming out of hiding to defend their captain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
So you're saying Ferguson knows nothing then? you could easily pick apart the transfer dealings of every top manager in the world and find some donkeys bought....Wenger and Mourinho have their fare share...And please don't trot out JOS for every argument, like him or not he is a very handy utility man but will never (EVER!) have a team built around him...
I'm afraid it's your argument that holds absolutely no water....and I've absolutely no association with United whatsoever mate...
Edit: also I noticed that you ignored my main argument....no comeback for that then?
Puyol is very overrated imo but Neville is on par with Finnan at least. I don't think I've ever seen a winger embarras him and he's at least as good as Finnan going forward imo.
I didn't ignore it. I thought I had already answered earlier by stating Neville is muck so I wouldn't agree with the majority of the points you label against him. He's average defensively but rubbish at everything else (including crossing and going forward).Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Ogba
Well that's me convinced!!Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
No. In fact, realistically, his career was "fast-forwarded" by joining MU. That said, Spurs are making decent, if gradual, progress (imo)Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerMilla
Anyhow, as regards Finnan vs Neville: I don't follow MU or L'pool, but I have to say Neville has been consistently excellent over many seasons, including the last. As such, he should be a contender for a World XI, but not Finnan (imo)
Interesting to see what the PFA thought (and they are better placed than any of us to judge):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/6582201.stm
P.S. As for McShane in the Championship: good prospect, could do very well in the Prem at Sunderland, but not even the best young centre back at WBA, if last season was anything to go by.
Finnan has been in that team once or twice before. I'd have been suprised if he was in it last season though as he didn't do anything spectacular.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
For me McShane is Ireland's best prospect by far. The one player I really believe can be world class.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Neville is a solid right back - nothing more and nothing less. Decent in the air, can tackle and go forward when required but I wouldn't classify him as a world class player. That 'phrase' is banded about too much nowadays in football if you ask me, especially when it comes to English players. Pre WC06 according to Andy Gray and Hansen = England had 8/9 truly world class players who you wouldn't swap for anybody else. I was ****ing myself at the time when I heard them come out with that beauty.
The one true player we have in our team who I'd classify as world class/top draw is Shay Given. I think he could go to any team in the world and do a brilliant job.
Thing is though , the world class atributes of a right back are just that , being solid if unspectacular , he is at least the equal of Denis Irwin who is rightly lauded here for just those qualities.
on what basis? he was a shambles in san marinoQuote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
So on the basis of one game he's going to be a failure?Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
no, which is why I asked for some basis as to him being "world class". san marino was my first impression of him and not a very good one at that. given eirebhoys confidence in him im interested in finding out what else he's done.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Just out of interest where were you for the Czech game? By "shambles in san marino" I presume you mean the mix up for the goal?Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPq2kbMy_sw
^^
He looked to have the pace to catch the long ball. Henderson came storming out and there was nothing McShane could do but jump out of the way.
Anyway, from what we saw against the Czechs McShane already has the skills to marshal a defense. He's only 21 and already he can lead the defense. That would usually take years of experience. Richard Dunne has only recently started taking up the responsibility. Andy O'Brien still needs someone beside him to lead him. Phil Babb always did. Bobo Balde could look top class beside a great organiser but absolutely terrible without one, he's 31.
McShane is 21 and he would have no problem ordering someone like Balde about. I also really believe he'd get the best out of Balde (I'm using Balde as an example because of his age). McShane just has a great football brain. He's small but how many headers did Koller win against him? His timing was superb. It'd be interesting to see how he'd do against a fast, tricky player but many would say Vidic is top class and he had a nightmare of a game against Craig Bellamy.
Actually, I did know that, but seeing as how centre-back is where he's played the best part of the last 2 seasons for Barca, I saw fit to describe him as a centre rather than full.Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
True some great teams do have average players but they are generally offloaded swiftly. That isn't the case with Puyol who is regarded as one of Barca's best players.
I just couldn't disagree more on Neville. He gets forward just as often as Finnan and is always solid in defence. He is usually in the first 2-3 names on the England team sheet because of his consistency in both attack and defence. Look on any Premiership player rating engine and he will usually be amongst the top 30 or so names on the list. He has formed the backbone of one of the most succesful clubs in the world for the past decade.Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
Unlike a lot of English players, I don't think he's overrated.
The only real 'dissing' of an Irish player you've done is saying that Richard Dunne is average. And for all I know that could have been to cover up that you might rave about Puyol were he Irish, as one poster said Irish fans in general rave about Dunne. Could have.
Regardless of whether you're biased or not, which is possibly untrue, I think you're wrong on this particular issue, so let's stick to debating this and not go the same way as the last debate we had.
England have had teams capable of winning in the last three major tournaments. You could ask yourself did Greece or Denmark ever look like winning the Euros? No, would be the answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
Frankly, plenty of great players don't achieve on the international stage. Players like George Best and Ryan Giggs never so much as qualified for a tournament yet there can be no argument that at their peaks they were truly world class players. Now just to get one thing straight before you accuse me-I'm not comparing Gary Neville to Giggs and Best, merely showing how flawed your argument is.
That's nice. Care to back up those opinions with some evidence?Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
I support Swansea City. I have never supported anyone but Swansea City. How much clearer can I make it?Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
I do watch a lot of Premiership/European football when Swansea aren't playing, however. So forgive me if I comment on players in those leagues.
And good on You for that. Most of the people on this forum dont support their own so your wasting your time!Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymro
The only Irish player ever to make it onto the the European Team of the Year (Onze Mondial) was Liam Brady in 1980. Liam was our only player on the 100 European players of the century, about 70th.
On another ranking, Liam was in the top 10, three years in a row, Keane only showed up there one year near the bottom of the frame.
Uefa put Duff on their team of the year 2003.
Since the mid '70's, Brady has clearly been our most recognized player on a consistant level at least in the eyes of Europe.
McShane has done the first step, he has made the best international debut since Brady.