I was using the "Love Ulster" termQuote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie
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I was using the "Love Ulster" termQuote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie
Not too sure if they can do that here. They defo can in the UK. However the uk police are miles ahead of the garda in handling troublesome situations.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
I watched an interview with one of the leads of the love Ulster movement on RTE news. It is clear that this man actually comes from the nastier side of loyalism. Most unionist/loyalist up the north are decent people but they have their minority of morons just like the nationalists. After watching the interview I am in no doubt that this march has been arranged by a small section of renegade loyalist with sole aim is to create tension.
As I said before, its a win-win situation and an utter stroke of extremist genius. If the march doesnt go ahead then the unionist/loyalist people are not being accepted and if it does an when the inevitable rioting and looting occurs (by every narrow-minded republican scumbag) then they can also claimed the the people of the south dont welcome unionist/loyalist people.
...pretty much it in a nutshell.Quote:
Originally Posted by reder
I would think the Garda top got a lot of flak from last years events from both public & politicians so will probably be keen for this to go ahead so they can't prove they can handle it. The Gardai need to make a stand against these types sooner or later.
Its not a big dick comepetition! Allowing the march just to show you can do it is the most pathetic thing I've ever heard. it should be banned for exactly the same reasons its banned in Belfast etcQuote:
Originally Posted by pete
If they don't march, by persuasion or otherwise in Dublin, it's a win for us, not them.Quote:
Originally Posted by reder
Nobody said they're not welcome here, but they're not allowed to march here. The Gardai have two choices, the easy way by telling them where to go so it never happens, or the hard way by facing the ire of angry Irish people on the day itself. Their choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
A win ? :confused::confused:
The gaurds won t feel the ire of the angry irish public because all but about 200 scum bags and a hang full of dumb shin feiners will care the rest of us will go about our day
Just because we go about our day doesn't mean we don't care.
Any event were Charlie Bird gets a smack in the chops should be run every year.
Good sentiment Dodge. People can be opposed to this if they wish. However, rioting is not and will never be the answer. I would hedge a bet that 99.5% of the idiots who caused trouble last time would not be capable of debating the issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
mypost, can you explain how them not marching, "by persuasion or otherwise in Dublin", would constitute a victory? I dont get that. Surely them not marching would be used by the loyalist extremists as an "anti-unionist" stick to beat people with?
PS: Can someone please explain why the marches are not permitted in Belfast? When did this come into effect? (Excuse my ignorance, my knowledge of NI is quite sketchy in places.)
Care to elaborate?Quote:
Originally Posted by hoops1
When the loonies couldnt get at the marchers and there was no guards
around to attack, they spotted Charlie doing a report and decided to give him a whacking. They chased him ripped his coat and gave him a bit of a cut lip.
The drama queen then went to the Mater hospital( I got bigger cuts shaving)
Then was on the news how telling all how he feared for his life and proceeded
to go on as if he was in war torn Iraq.
A large percentage of victims of Republican violence were from the nationlist community so to say it represents victims is stupid and they know it.Yer man is off his rocker and as we all know this is an attempt to stoke the fires of tribalism again.There should be an annual commemoration(with no flags) for all victims and let loved ones have a genuine platform for rememberance.This is a sickening attempt to piggyback on other peoples grief.Get the worst shower from both sides, stick em in in a field in the middle of nowhere and let them get on with it.
There was also the implication that he was somehow singled out not because he was ace RTÉ reporter Charlie Bird, but because he was a Protestant, as if the whole world knew which foot he digs with.Quote:
Originally Posted by hoops1
I thought it was just the modern-day thugs' equivalent of the time everybody was shouting, "Charlie, Charlie, give us a wave" at him when he was reporting outside Government Buildings on the fall of Albert Reynolds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erstwhile Bóz
well something was said like there CB the orange ******
A victory for those who oppose the march, would mean them not parading in our capital city. They could do it for 800 years, but they're not able to do it anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by reder
I know the march doesn't affect those outside Dublin, and I can see why they in general, would support it. We lost €10million in Saturday trade last time, most of the shops were shut to ordinary Dubs, and tourists going about their everyday business. Who here wants that again, for the sake of British people's desire to "march" down a (to them) foreign street? This is opposed unaminously by the people, and if we're not listened to before it, we will be listened to on the day itself.
Out of sight, out of mind....Quote:
Surely them not marching would be used by the loyalist extremists as an "anti-unionist" stick to beat people with?
Lads the people running the rioting show last year were mostly from Glasgow and Belfast from what I saw up there, this has little to do with Ireland and us turning a blind eye outside of a couple dozen Dublin scumbags who will go along for the looting.
And anyone who thinks this march isn't about antagonising the rioters from last year hasn't a ****ing notion in there head to be honest, go to the Love Ulster forums and see how much sympathy they have for victims of Loyalist terrorist attacks and you'll know all you need to know about these idiots.
Before I'll say what I have to say I just want to point out that in general I couldn't give a monkeys about Northern Ireland (if anything I'd like this island to stay as is) and have sympathy for any innocent family, catholic or protestant that has been caught up in the Troubles in one or another, that said I don't think this march should be allowed to take place. We can harp on about freedom of speech all we want but I doubt many here would condone a Nazi parade through Dublin, or a Free the Paedos movement setting up, and I don't view this garbage Love Ulster group as any different. They're sole purpose here is to cause trouble, to lay the blame at Republicans feet, to destabilise the progress that has been made up North, and to pat themselves on the back for a job well done, and they shouldn't be allowed to do so. The Gardai could have easily have put a stop to this nonsense by not allowing the march to go ahead on the grounds that they wouldn't be able to provide adequate security, and that would have been that. But no, we have to get drawn into the circus Love Ulster drew us all into last year, debating whats right and wrong with freedom of speech (isn't freedom of speech curtailed enough in the media these days that we can safely say there is no freedom of speech?), and arguing with each other about whether Love Ulster's intentions are honourable, or whether they're just a bunch of ****-stirrers. Jesus even if the march doesn't go ahead they've already won this PR war yet again
I must have missed the bit where loyalists were marching in Dublin for 800 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
That was caused by the thugs not the march.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
There is no doubt that the Organisers are just doing it to wind up the Shinners but does that mean the rest of us need to pander to the will of those thugs. I know a lot of them from last year were prosecuted but have any of them been jailed? If we jailed a few day tripper rioters it would deter the rest of them.
What's "otherwise"? Are you advocating violence against the marchers to prevent them marching as a win situation for you?Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
Did I say I would be advocating violence?? :confused: When it happened last time, I predicted aggro, and hey presto, it happened. It happened because of ignorance from the government and incompetence from the gardai. Anyone who thinks it will be any different the second time, is really naive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
Nobody wants the marchers here, and if the public aren't listened to now, they will be on the day. I hope it doesn't take that long, but it may do.
Define nobody?Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
Many people outside Dublin couldn't give a hoot and many Dubs rightly view them as a pathetic freak show stuck in the past trying to cling to a confused and inherently defensive cultural identity.
I'd prefer if my tax money wasn't spent forcing them down O'Connell Street but knowing the mentality of these people, if they walked up and down and nobody paid any attention to them they would soon get bored and try to pick a fight elsewhere.
You are in danger of (undeservedly) attributing some kind of credibility to the scumbags who attacked the Gardai last year, who, much like most of the recent rioting in the North, have no cause other than a love of wanton violence, which, if they weren't throwing blocks at Guards, they'd get their kicks by beating the crap out of people outside Abrakebabra at 3am on a Saturday morning.
Scum vs scum.
Brilliant post, OneRedArmy. Sums up the whole thing perfectly.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
Deep down everyone knows that if, in dream world, the march went ahead peacefully, these extremists would be completely lost and would move onto their next venue, perhaps Glasgow, where they could get the reaction they want.
From the outside, it is so obvious that the extremists on both side as so alike as people. S**t stirrers living in the past.
Personally, I have no issue with loyalists but I am now convinced that this march is solely about stirring up trouble. I dont care about northern Ireland one iota as someone who was born and raised in Britain or as someone who has lived in Ireland and was raised as Irish. I get the feeling that the majority of people in Ireland or the UK feel the extact same.
I actually have more loyalist than nationalist friends. Out of all of my loyalist friends that I have spoke to, NONE see a point to this march. They live down here and are very happy. Most go back up home for their specific marches and they celebrate their culture at that time.
Im probably going to get dogs abuse about this but I dont feel that loyalists should be allowed to march along any route in Northern Ireland.
Find a poll, any poll, on whether they should march or not, and there's your answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
Most Dubs are annoyed that our civil liberties are being violated by allowing Brits to march in our city, which is going to lead inevitably to chaos and carnage. That's why we are against it. It shouldn't happen.:mad:Quote:
Many people outside Dublin couldn't give a hoot and many Dubs rightly view them as a pathetic freak show stuck in the past trying to cling to a confused and inherently defensive cultural identity.
do you understand apathy?Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
That's a hell of a forked tongue you got there Mypost.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
Complete and utter tripe.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
There were only a few peaceful protesters last time around, which completely debunks your myth that "most Dubs" are against it.
As for the rioters, they couldn't even spell civil liberties and even if they could, they expressed them by robbing trainers from sports shops and assaulting non-nationals in convenience stores.
Pearse would be proud......
How does this march in particular, as opposed to a SF/republican march, which is equally vulgar, violate your, or anyone citizen of Dublin's civil liberties.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
Mypost, do you realise that the sentiment that you are expressing here is exactly what the extremists are looking for?
Probably would, he was a bit of a nutjob himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
:D it's funny because it's true.Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
thats far too simplistic, many people didnt want that trash walking down Dublin's streets, some decided to stop themQuote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
1916............many Dubs didnt give a flying fcuk then too, did they:eek:
Just as many people didn't want the "trash" that attacked the Gardai walking the streets either.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
Its not "too simplistic", its bang on the money.
The people behind Love Ulster are sectarian lunatics, but any march of Northern Protestants would've been treated the same, by the same minority.
We'll see when it happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
Like it makes a difference... :rolleyes:Quote:
As for the rioters, they couldn't even spell civil liberties
...which wouldn't have happened at all if the march was not given the go ahead in the first place.Quote:
even if they could, they expressed them by robbing trainers from sports shops and assaulting non-nationals in convenience stores.
As Irish people, SF/Republicans are freely allowed to march anywhere in the Irish Republic.Quote:
Originally Posted by reder
It's not difficult really. Stop March = Prevent Resistance, Allow March = Prepare for Resistance
It doesn't take an Einstein to recognise that. :rolleyes:
The orange order march around at Oldbridge county meath a couple of times a year and no one pays any attention to them. They just come down do their thing, celebrate their distorted history and go home. In fact I'm thinking of selling merchandising - how about Boxer shorts with "My Willie is Orange" written on them?
We have Loyalist Flute Bands at St. Patricks day parades here in Limerick. They've been applauded, carried off Ribbands and been generally surprised at how nice everyone is to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
Really!! Can I not march in Dublin then?Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
Most of those who caused trouble, leaving aside the local scumbag looters who wouldnt know the difference between a republican and loyalist, where from the UK. (I.E. not irish people).
bennocelt, many people dont want hardcore republican trash walking down the street but we have to put up with it. Whether you like it or not, in the eyes of the vast majority of people in the 26 counties, there are equal proportions of trash on both sides.
Well if you are on your own I think it would be considered a stroll rather than a march.Quote:
Originally Posted by reder
What if he had an umbrella and was going quite quickly and purposefully? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
I think people like ORA don't quite grasp the anger that was felt in Dublin that a commeration of the Dublin and Monahgan bomber later killed by the IRA was to walk past one of the bomb sites. Granted there was a scumbag element, but dont underestimate the general anger in Dublin that we had to be subjected to triumphalist bigotry as Dodge says.
Wille Fraser once said no-one should ever be imprisoned for shooting a republican. he said billy wright was a good christian. he was banned form owning a gun due to his paramilitary links. this march is banned in belfast. why dont FAIR condemn victims of Loyalist violence too? why have orange bands? why not just go and have a prayer service in a church?
why should modern, multicultural dublin allow these fascists march in our town? to me its a sign of modernity and tolerance to object to loyalist paramilitaries and orangemen marching for no other reason than to provoke. not condoning rioting for one second, but Dublin Says No!!
Not with an Orange Band, UVF paraphanalia and a plaque for the man who killed 35 people 20 yards away, no.Quote:
Originally Posted by reder
That is absolute garbage. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by reder
I'm from Derry. I grew up in the 70's and 80's. On that basis I think I've quite a fine grasp on sectarian anger, having encountered more of it in any given week than you ever will in a lifetime.Quote:
Originally Posted by OhNoYouDidn't
Tolerance is defined as "a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from one's own".Quote:
Originally Posted by OhNoYouDidn't
Maybe you meant intolerance?
On the basis you don't recognise alleged murderers being allowed freedom of expression (hard for many people to stomach I admit) I presume you are against the peace process in the North, given that murderers from both sides now hold representative positions?