Its the tribunal's job to call them a farce and lies.Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
They haven't.
Wishful thinking gets the opposition nowhere, as usual.
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Its the tribunal's job to call them a farce and lies.Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
They haven't.
Wishful thinking gets the opposition nowhere, as usual.
yeah...yeah...yeah ...the old Bart Simpson "nobody can touch me, I know the law, you can't prove anything" response. Is it wishful thinking to wonder if a time will come when enough FF supporters will get past a bit of wishful thinking of their own?Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
I honestly have no idea what bart simpson has to do with anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie
what? :confused: are you actually saying anything of substance?Quote:
Is it wishful thinking to wonder if a time will come when enough FF supporters will get past a bit of wishful thinking of their own?
opposition parties have been blowing on about lies and farces for months now and yet the tribunal has said repeatedly that they have no issues with it. Consequently, you have people like dahamsta complaining about the media, when all the media are doing is reporting on actual events, while the oppositions continue bleating about their own imaginings rather than the actual failings of the government do nobody any good.
I'm asking is it too much to hope that some FF supporters face up to the emerging likelihood that their teflon taoiseach is as bent as an S-hook.
Well not that there has been a shred of evidence other than a tribunal asking him what he was doing, but even as someone who voted FF as their 3rd choice (after the socialist party and the greens) frankly I'd be more worried about the state of our mental health services or the wisdom of an entirely knowledge based economy when so many adults are illiterate, than bertie taking a few millionaires for a few grand. Why is it then, that the opposition insists on mudslinging rather than making a better case than "well, bridie mary in clones was telling me about her daughter last week..."Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie
Fair enough ...there is a bigger picture and a great big world outside the tribunals. But many of the inherent problems in our country are cumulatively constructed on a culture where it was okay for public servants to be indebted to individuals and lobbies who line their pockets ...directly and indirectly. It doesn't surprise me in the least that Bertie doesn't seem to think he's really done anything wrong. He may even know better than we ever will that this is small beer.Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
So, what exactly is 'a political donation for my personal use'?
From a piece on RTE.ie*
Mr Ahern cannot explain the source of a £5,000 cheque cashed at the Irish Permanent on the day the savings account was opened.
He said he did receive a contribution from someone around that time but he could not recall from whom, he described the payment as, 'a political donation for my personal use'.
Lord God but Bertie is making more of a mockery out of his defenders with each passing day. I wonder how the Fianna Failers will pass this one off?
* Sorry I would link, but computer restrictions at work don't allow me to us the sidebars for some odd reason
Of course it should be added that he didn't pay tax on that 5k, or the 5k he claims his brother gave to him at the same time.
Not to mention the seven grand from his mother. They really loved him.
Now now, that was birthday money, yes the fully grown Minister was getting birthday money from his mother to the tune of 7k. I think someone a few posts back said something about not caring if this was confirmation money, he still needs to declare it? I laughed at the time, but it's looking more and more like he's gonna pull the confirmation money line out at any stage now :DQuote:
Originally Posted by noby
Bertie must have been shocked this morning at the cheering inside Dublin Castle for the Mahon Tribunal when they asked Bertie's lawyers to withdraw their statement that the Mahon officials are corrupt. I say he must have been shocked because apparantly he still believes that the public are fully behind him in this :D:D What an absolute moron, great leader you voted in their though guys, great leader
Its more disgusting and funny as the days go on.Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
Just listening to Martin Manseragh indulging in profound denial on Marian Finucanes Radio 1 show. He tried obfustication, he tried whataboutery, he even tried stunned silence follwed by stammering at one point when confronted with for example, two and a half times Berties salary passing through his personal account in one year.
He urged that the Tribunal should be allowed finish it's work before any judgement is passed and then promptly went on to pass judgement on others.
Just back from 2 weeks away & taxi driver telling me Celia Larkin got a 30k "loan" from Fianna Fail in 1994 that Bertie did not know about? Would like to say you couldn't make this up but it is exactly the stuff you would make up. Surely this is fraud or at the very least tax evasion? :confused:
Fianna Fail unaffected in the opinion polls too. Shame on us.
RTE
Berties friend Tim Collins in the Tribunal trying to explain the BT bank account.
Surely this was just a slush fund account to hide personal "donations" like money given by Davy Stockbrokers?Quote:
It was to ensure that he and other trustees of Fianna Fáil's Dublin Central's constituency office, St Luke's, were not left with a liability if anything happened to Bertie Ahern. But Mr Collins was unable to say how this could arise.
Can't think how a constituency office would have a liability of something happened to Bertie Ahern. Bizarre.
The DT Account was the Des & Tim Account, however the BT Account was not the Bertie & Tim Account, no sir, that was the Building Trust Account, the one that had it's name changed to very shortly after the Tribunal discovered it...
I find it really annoying that all the media outlets persist in calling the 30k to Celia Larkin "a loan". By Bertie Ahern's own definition of a loan (from when Lowry was claiming money from Ben Dunne was a loan) it has to be contemporaneously documented with a market interest rate. Not suddenly repaid 10 years later with nominal (deposit) interest when the tribunal starts sniffing.
Ha ha, just read that bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
Hmmm....yeah, right
It'd be hilarious but for the fact these people have this country in a headlock.
Can someone tell me what the feck a "surplus donation" is? Spare money you don't need? Why does it need it's own account?
From Newstalk, sounds like the ridiculous "Building Trust" story is falling apart
Quote:
Blair Hughes who was a manager at the Irish Permanent Building Society in Drumcondra, is answering questions at the Mahon Tribunal about the now infamous "B/T" account.
The Tribunal has previously heard that the account was opened by Mr Tim Collins, for renovations and building work to the Saint Luke's Constituency Office.
Mr Hughes told the Tribunal in a statement that he had no reason to believe the account had anything to do with Fianna Fail, the local cumann or that it related to a building trust.
http://newstalk.ie/newstalk/news/669...-evidence.html
I confused as to why more hasn't been made of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by monutdfc
Possibly because just "loaning" money from FF. Since FF-ers not upset I presume this was common practice in the party of blank cheques?Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
The only defence Ahern has in this whole sorry mess now is to claim the Tribunal should not be investigating him as he deny deny deny not working any more.
This is what I don't get. Possibly it wasn't even illegal*, and it's not like the money was earmarked for someone's kidney operation, but still, surely this is something to get mad over? Any FF heads care to comment?Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
*I'm no lawyer, but tax issues are surely floating around here, and surely there are rules governing how FF's money gets moved around by its officers, requiring some accountability to committees and AGMs.
Accountability? LMAO :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
Sure FF went up in recent polls. We get the government we deserve.
Seems it's not just FF politicians that have memory problems, but also FF staff judging by the evidence yesterday. To paraphase: Berties Secretary "I don't know of any such account"; Tribunal Lawyers "Would you agree this is your name and address in your handwriting on these lodgement slips to the said account?"
Also more sterling lodgements showing up, and it seems Permenant TSB keep better records than the big two...
Have to agree with that, I mean we let everyone else do a half assed job, from the girl serving us in a restaurant to the board of Iarnroid Eireann, so why not politicians? Well that seems to be the attitude Fianna Fail supporters are taking at this stage anywayQuote:
Originally Posted by pete
What worries me is that nobody, at all, in FF seems to see anything wrong with whats going on. That not one of them has the decency to question the morals of either the leader or the cabinet is worrying.
In an age/era where it is likely for the govt to need independent backing surely one of the higher non-portfolio td's would have the balls to stand up and say 'right, this isn't for me, I'm out' and run as an independent. I couldn't see their standing falling in the community anyway.
I'm baffled. I really am. I understand that you vote for the person who serves the constituency well, but it got to the stage with me where I wouldn't vote FF in the last election because of Ahern, likewise I wouldn't vote for Labour cause I didn't trust Rabbitte to do a U-turn. So Olwyn Enright got the vote.
Fianna Fail are mé féiners and they don't have the "decency" because they're looking after their own interests, not the interests of the government or their constituents. Of course this applies to all politicians to some degree, but FF have it down to an art form.
They'll start abandoning ship and attaching themselves to a replacement real soon now, mark my words. And Cowen's not going to get the easy ride Gordon Brown got either.
adam
RTE
Bertie Aherns lawyers are now asking the Tribunal for more time to come up with an explanation.
Surely this just means they need more time to spin another yarn as the previous ones did not work? The Irish Permanent (in those days a Building Society) in Drumcondra unlikely to be a hot bed of sterling conversions given only available to account holders? They seem to continue to reject the sterling claims with no plausible explanation yet. Is that the key to unlocking some massive secret?Quote:
However a former manager for the building society has said he believes that over £15,500 came from sterling cash conversions.
Colm Ó hOisín SC for the Taoiseach said they had only received documentation recently and their client had been out of the country. He said the Taoiseach will be replying to the tribunal in due course.
Former Irish Permanent manager Blair Hughes said he cannot offer any other explanation for the lodgements. Mr Hughes was shown documentation surrounding the cash lodgements of odd sum amounts at the Drumcondra branch of the Irish Permanent between March and October 1994.
Over £11,500 was lodged to Bertie Ahern's account and more than £2,000 each to the accounts of his daughters Cecelia and Georgina.
Mr Hughes accepted that each lodgement was preceded by a sterling purchase by the branch and he said this facility would only be given to account holders. He could not offer any other explanation for the lodgements, apart from them being being the result of sterling conversions.
:confused:
Just in conversation last night a question came up -at what point might Revenue and the CAB become interested in all of this?
According to the rather thrashy if still noble 'Dirty Money' that was aired the other night CAB were shadowing Ray Burke right the way through his testimony at the tribunal and joining the dots from the little clues he was leaving.
I presume they're doing something similar here, waiting in the wings. But who's to know?
As for his secretary, £66 a week, no huge cash lodgements into her account, I wonder why did she "forget" making the lodgements. If it's just down to some kind of misguided loyalty to her former employer then I kind of feel sorry for her.
She would need to be careful as I presume she could be prosecuted for perjury?Quote:
Originally Posted by noby
Someone suggested to me the other day that FG aren't pushing about Bertie as hard as they might because they're afraid of Cowen. I'm no FF fan, but I suspect that if he can dump Bertie without doing himself any great harm, he'll lead the polls.Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
If anything is revealed about Ahern, Cowen will suffer as a result of his complete backing of the tea-shop.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
That was my thought. And it's too late for him to back down on his support for Bertie now, the damage is done. He's taken a massive risk; a fatal one by the looks of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
Plus of course if Bertie himself doesn't back down soon, it won't be just the Taoiseach that falls. Not that Bertie'll give a crap, he's the ultimate mé féiner.
adam
Might be no harm for FF, not that I care all the same, but who would be next in line? Dermot Ahern, O'Dea, Harney (if she went back)?Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
If I was to nominate someone to blow the whistle on any potential scandal though, and while I've no reason whatsoever for saying it, but Dempsey is someone everytime I see him on tv never seems like his heart is in defending Ahern.
Ministers will continue to defend Bertie if they feel he is staying around for a few years. After all he appoints the Ministers & they all the best job they can get. If Ahern announces he is to retire in lets say 6 months you won't see Ministers popping up as enthusiastically as previously to defend him. Pretty much guaranteed any one in the government will use the "could not do anything until the Tribunal finished its work" excuse when this finally ends.
I don't know, he's probably been out there more than the rest of the cabinet. Are you sure it's not the fact he can barely string a coherent sentence together anytime he's interviewed? Surely him, Cullen, Hanafin, Roche etc owe their political careers to the Bert, since they're hardly where they are on merit?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
I'd like to think that the whole Cabinet (including Gormley & Ryan), and indeed the whole Government are tarnished by this constant backing of Bert and failure to act. However, I have no faith in the electorate in this country to make the connection - afterall, if connections with dodgy FF leaders was a problem Ahern himself would hardly have made it would he?
Cowen is just a loadmouth bully, if FG are scared of him then they've bigger problems. He has no great record to show - did nothing Health, mismanaged the last growls of the Celtic Tiger, and is incapable of managing the result of his inaction now. Actually maybe FF should be worried if he's the great white hope?
I wouldn't be surprised if the skip a generation away from the sleaze to Lenihan. I think he's a spoofer, but he comes across better than most of the cabinet and hasn't been in cabinet long enough to have as poor a record as the rest. FG to then fook it up by going for Hayes in response, with Bruton the best leader they never had. Labour to bottle it and not force a Grand Coalition between the FF and FG. That concludes the 2012 election results :)
Not much left to say on Bertie bar saying that anyone who still defends him is a moron