Hawkins, Ward, Doyle, Forde, O'Callaghan.....
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Hawkins, Ward, Doyle, Forde, O'Callaghan.....
Jason Byrne staying with Cardiff.
Change the record....:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruce
spot on ladQuote:
I think the step up from LOI(or IL) to the Championship in England is emense and only a few players on this island would be able to make the transition.
I would've agreed with you last year BUT Stephen Ward wouldn't have made many LOI fans top ten strikers last year and he's doing quite well for himself at Wolves (I think he won the CHampionship POTM earlier this year).Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruce
If he can do it, plenty of others can
I think could easily find list eL players able to make the move into Championship first teams as shown by the numbers in the last year. Not all those that left were the best players in the eL which shows plenty of more players could "make it".Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruce
Players such as Murphy & Long left before them too.
an anomaly: someone whose skills were better suited to the english divisions than the eircom league. to counter the point: i assume jason byrne would have been in every LOI fan's top one strikers for the last five years, and he ahs sunk without a trace.Quote:
Stephen Ward wouldn't have made many LOI fans top ten strikers last year and he's doing quite well
If you read the thread, you'll see why
And he certainly wasn't my top striker.
Suppose Dayl Murphy and Kevin Doyle are anolamies too?
I think Wes Hoolihan deserves a mention as well, he's better than League One anyway!
Middlesbrough supposed to be after himQuote:
Originally Posted by BohsFans
Byrne and David Forde both staying at Cardiff. With their other goalie being let go, Dave should hopefully get more opportunities next season.
Cardiff are targeting a new goalie as top priority so I feel Forde will be number two there next year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaillimh Al
We'll see how Byrne gets on next year now he looks to be staying at Cardiff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
It would say a lot though if he scored hatfuls in the League of Ireland yet couldn't break into this current Cardiff side. Swansea would beat 'em right now, and that's not personal bias. They could be relegation fodder next year, depends on who comes in and goes out there during the summer. Supposed to be a lot of new arrivals so they might be better next year but I doubt they'll be any more than a mid-table side.
So I suppose Serie A is crap because Shevchenko couldn't score hatfuls of goals in the Premiersh1t?
Well, there's a bit of difference between playing, albeit somewhat irregularly, for the richest club in the world, and playing well on occasion (remember the goal he scored in the FA Cup against Spurs) and, in Byrne's case, being behind a former Newport County player in the pecking order at a pretty poor Cardiff side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soper
Shevchenko has the Premiership's best strikers to compete with, Byrne has a load ****e to compete with.
Yeah, and he was given one opportunity, and he scored. Whats happened since then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymro
I wouldn't say he scored hatfuls but he was a class act alright.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymro
He got injured, then did nothing for 90 minutes in his comeback match in the FAW Premier Cup (which I saw). He hasn't played since, presumably because he isn't deemed good enough by the manager.Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
So how is Cardiff's recent record in Europe? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymro
Hey they haven't played bad in Europe anyway! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
Monaghanman James Hand was released by Huddersfield and read in the Monaghan Post today that he is going to Shamrock Rovers.
As for Conlon, he was linked with the Drogs b4 but not sure what the story is now, dont think we are talking to him at the moment.
Well they haven't played for some 15 years, but they did once reach the semi-finals of the old Cup Winners' Cup. Not that I see what Europe has to do with any of this. The point is, if Byrne can't get a game at a poor Championship side (and especially if he subsequently returns to Ireland and proves prolific again) it shows that your league is not the same standard as the Championship.Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
Have you the formula for that.......Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymro
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymro
He's been out injured for the past 4/5 weeks with ligament damge. I was talking to him in Dublin airport a few weeks ago. He's not the greatest trainer but is going to be giving his all in preseason to get up to the fitness of the others. He is confident it will work out for him.
RE: Cardiff's record in Europe , they tanked us 4 -0 on 1988! That was our first round of games with our great treble winning team.
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pablo
Put simply, player X scores many goals in league A. Player X is obviously good enough to score plenty against defences in that league.
Player X then moves to league B, finds himself against new defenders, and fails to make the same impact.
It can be deduced that the defenders in league A are of lower standard than those in league B, and therefore league B is better, unless there are vast amounts more goals scored in general in league A than league B.
The Shevchenko thing is not comparing similar circumstances, as Shevchenko is playing at a club who tend to favour a lone striker and also have their league's best players. Move him to Arsenal or Liverpool and it would change I feel.
What from reality?Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
Are you saying Sunderland would struggle against any team on this island? Birmingham? Derby? Wolves? WBA? Southampton etc etc etc - Would they struggle?:rolleyes:
The Championship is a greater standard than the SPL let alone LOI.
Yes, the LOI is getting better and better, but there is a long, looonnnng way to go to reach Championship standard.
If you put together a squad of 20 in the LOI of your best players, You might live in the Championship, but you wouldn't be pushing for promotion.
I had not realised he was injured again. In which case, that casts a slightly different light on the situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by lofty9
We'll see how he gets on next year, though I expect plenty of new players to go to Cardiff in the summer. If they keep hold of Chopra and get another striker of proven quality in, I'd think he'd be a fringe player for much of the season as Chopra's place in the team is safe as houses.
Where is Wes O'Hoolihan? He always impressed me when he played for Shelbourne.
Thats a far cry from the point he argued though Steve. Your original point wasQuote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruce
Now you're saying a full squad would survive in that league.Quote:
I think the step up from LOI(or IL) to the Championship in England is emense and only a few players on this island would be able to make the transition.
Nobody here truely belives we're anywhere near the standard of the championship as a whole, so please stop trying to argue against the POV nobody shares. What most posters have said is that the odd team (possibly Drogheda) could maybe survive in the championship and other teams have players who are good enough for that level. Which is the point you've just made yourself, so don't try and force an arguement where none exists
Blackpool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruce
1st of all Drogheda would get embarrassed in the Championship. I think it'sa laugh anyone would think that any taem on this island could live in the Championship. There's no one that good - or near it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Also the word "maybe" is indicative that I am not convince that you could have a squad capable, but I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt. But if there was a squad, they would be a relegation struggling team. But it is all hypothetical.
one a side note. Has anyone got a comprehensive list of all players from the LOI who has went across the water to Scotland or England. Because it would be interesting to see how many actually have made a break through.
There are of course some notable ones especially Doyle, who is a great player.
He has been the best player I have seen on this island in the last few years. Good to see him doing well. I reckon a player of his calibre is definately capable of Championship standard.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
Agree. Very talented player - technically he's capable of playing at a much higher standard than League One. But alas size does matter. If he only drank more milk when he was younger ....Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruce
Well, at least he managed to make it further than Accrington Stanley.....:DQuote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
Off the top of my head from the last 2-3 yearsQuote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruce
Daryl Murphy
Doyle
Long
Forde
Danny Murphy
Dillon
Hawkins
Harris
Bennett
Ryan
McChrystal
O'Callaghan
Hoolihan
Byrne
Molloy
Keegan
around 10 of those are regular first teamer for their team , others can say better whether individual cases have been success or failure
Check the sticky at the top of this forum, and steve to counteract you maybe, I used possibly AND maybe when tlaking about Drogheda (if you want to be that pedantic...)
Thats ridiculous. You're simply selectively picking the example that suits your arguement best. Stephen Ward only scored two goals for Bohs last season but he scored 3 in his first month with Wolves. I suppose you'll say now that Ward wasn't getting the service with us or something but I could reverse that around and say perhaps the players Byrne had around him at Shels were better than those at Cardiff. Kevin Doyle is more prolific in the Premiership than he was over here. I suppose this all adds up to show that while the LOI is not as good as the Championship, it is better than the Premiership and QED the Championship is better than the Premiership. Hopefully the powers that be realise this and Sunderland, Birmingham, Derby and WBA can look forward to Champions' League football next year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymro
The Derry lad?Quote:
Originally Posted by gustavo
Who did he go to?
Ah, but Bohemians had a bad season last year, and likely scored few goals overall. On the other hand, Wolves would have been a side who would go on to make the play-offs in the Championship. Thus, Ward would get much more goalscoring opportunities at Wolves.Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
The same argument can be used to counter your theory that Byrne had better players around him at Shelbourne. They were simply a team that dominated their league and created more chances than Cardiff do.
Secondly, Ward, Byrne, O'Callaghan, Doyle etc. (all the players who've gone to the English leagues recently) have all been top-level players in the League of Ireland. So naturally, if the two leagues are on a par, you'd expect all of them to be top top players at Championship level also.
Of those four named Doyle and Ward have established themselves at Championship (and Premiership in Doyle's case) level, while Byrne has not played much for Cardiff, and O'Callaghan last time I checked was making sub appearances off the bench for Ipswich.
Now the other Irish lad Hoolahan who plays for Blackpool is a very good player at our level (League One), just as he was in Ireland. I would the standard of the top teams over there is more like that.
Though, that said, really I haven't seen enough to form a real opinion. I am trying to watch as much as possible though, and reading and posting here has got me interested. I may go and watch a game during the UK off-season.
Again, are people claiming this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymro
I think the claim is that 2 or 3 eL teams could survive in the Championship.
City and Shels the past few years and Pats and Drogs at the moment.