Ireland v Wales pre-match thread

[QUOTE=stojkovic;645096]

Talent wise at the moment we are not lacking, leadership wise, very much so. That is one of our fundamental problems at the moment. Leadership on and off the pitch. The other is the players (spoilt little millionaires) hunger and desire. What Giles calls 'moral courage'.

I do not subscribe to the notion that our players aren't as good as what Jack had. Jack made use of what he had and they battled, too much sometimes. Stan is using it as a cop out to play out his four year contract (shades of Sven the spoofer). Quote

I have to agree with you there pal. Looking back on the Irish teams of that period you could have nearly made any them of them captain of the current team on desire alone.

I believe it's a societal issue there's very few "men" coming into the international scene. No wonder the public are getting behind the rugby. And I say that as someone who pretty much despised the game all my life.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Fair enough, that's the only call up I have any real issue with, possibly the omission of Ledger.

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Tets, do you rate Ledger as good enough?

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Folan ahead of Connolly as he adds somethilng that that nobody else has which is lots of pace

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I haven't seen the guy play so I don't know how good or bad he really is. In terms of his speed, who would you compare him to?

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Originally Posted by stojkovic

Apart from our defence (excluding the best keeper & right-full in the Premier)

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And one of the best central defenders. A lot more proven than someone like Ledley King imo. Hasn't shown that form for Ireland but then who has?

No Carr? Find that a bit strange as he is fit again and if Finnan picks up an injury we'll have a championship right back pitted against Ryan Giggs. Surely at least Derek Geary of Sheffield United should have been called up he has made 19 Premiership starts this season!
Connolly has scored 10 in his last 17 so surely he deserves a call up giving our options.

Carr has not been playing, either just about recovered from injury or not quite recovered yet.

Can't wait to hear what Neil Warnock says about Geary and S. Quinn being left out. Nothing surprises me anymore about Stan's selections, but apart from those 2, i'm disappointed that Henderson is still in the squad after one of the biggest goalkeeping howlers i can remember from an Ireland keeper (and he hasnt played a first team game since) and the selection of Stokes and Long ahead of inform strikers (nothing against either but they are not ready for international football). I wouldnt have put Folan above the likes Lee until he proves himself at premiership level. From the squad thats picked, i would be tempted to try Hunt in centre midfield. He seems to have the energy and hunger thats been missing, can tackle and likes to get in the box, and i'd play him with either Ireland or Carsley because i dont think they work well together.

Carr is not in the Newcastle team tonight, still suffering with his hamstring, so I've no problems with his omission

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Goalkeepers: Given, Colgan, Henderson

Defenders: McShane, Dunne, O'Dea, Finnan, Harte, Kelly.

Midfielders: O'Shea, Kilbane, Ireland, Carsley, Douglas, McGeady, Hunt, Gibson, Quinn, Duff.

Forwards: Keane, Stokes, Doyle, Long, Folan.

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Stokes, Doyle, Long, even Folan
not one of them derserves it over Connolly, Murphy, Ward, Keogh, Morrison, etc
Leave now Staunton and dont come back
Connolly: 10 goals in 16 games
Morrison: 4 goals in 4 games, 10 on the season
Ward: 3 goals in February
Keogh: perhaps not
Murphy: sure as hell plays over Stokes
M. Rowlands: deserves it over Douglas, as he has been better than him goal scoring wise and always seems to be involved with QPR's goals
P. McCarthy: I forget if he's hurt, but if hes not, he should be in over O'Dea

Folan: 2 goals makes you a superstar?
Long: Do I even need to mention anything?
Doyle: earlier season form deserves it, played about 15 minutes in 2 months
Stokes: Cant crack the same Sunderland squad that Connolly and Murphy do
O'Dea: plays well in 2 matches and gets in the squad?
Douglas: plays for ****ing Leeds
Gibson: Royal MOTHER****ING ANTWERP

Staunton is not fit to manage my sister's u13 team, much the less a formerly-excellent Irish team.
Anyone remember playing France last year, the match we lost 1-0? The atmosphere was great, the players wanted to win, and we played great. We had Brian Kerr and everyone blamed him. Well guess what, we got this stupid ginger now instead, are you happy almost losing to San Marino? I've kept my cool the best I could in the past, this is the straw that broke the camel's back, and I am one ****ed off bloody camel.

P.S. After thinking it through a bit Folan perhaps does deserve it, and we should at least lock him up for the future.
P.P.S. How is me telling Staunton to leave not come back personal abuse? I didn't tell him to drop dead, as I wouldn't want that. I simply said he wasn't fit to manage (perhaps the retard comment should've been taken out though). Real version of my post is here

stauntons a frickin sap, cannot for the life of me see how folan warrants a place ahead of ward or connolly (and perhaps even keogh/lee).

Playing 5 games for a **** wigan side is scant justification for an international call-up. Ward has worked hard in the underage system and won player of the month in for february in the champo. Id feel very hard done by if I were him. I'd probably have included him instead of stokes aswell.

At least he had sense and called up O'Dea, feared the worst when i saw him in the under 21 squad.

My gut feeling is that no matter what squad he picks, we're still gona play ****e and stuggle to get anything outa these games.

And, altho im slightly ashamed to say it. A part of me wishes that this will be the case and we'll finally get rid of this fr. stone impersonator

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Originally Posted by theworm2345

Stokes, Doyle, Long, even Folan
not one of them derserves it over Connolly, Murphy, Ward, Keogh, Morrison, etc
Leave now Staunton and dont come back
Connolly: 10 goals in 16 games
Morrison: 4 goals in 4 games, 10 on the season
Ward: 3 goals in February
Keogh: perhaps not
Murphy: sure as hell plays over Stokes
M. Rowlands: deserves it over Douglas, as he has been better than him goal scoring wise and always seems to be involved with QPR's goals
P. McCarthy: I forget if he's hurt, but if hes not, he should be in over O'Dea

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Connolly and Morrison can feel the most aggrieved, both in form and scoring freely.
I would have gone with Ward over Folan, Championship Player of the month
Keogh is still finding his feet in the Championship, and was in the squad for San Marino, but didn't play
Muprhy does not play over Stokes, he barely starts for Sunderland, although he has played a part in every game for the last month or so. Before Tuesday's goal, he hadn't scored since early December
I haven't seen much of Rowlands, so I can't really comment on him. What I will say is Douglas has performed for Staunton when called on.
McCarthy is out for the rest of the season

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Originally Posted by theworm2345

Folan: 2 goals makes you a superstar?
Long: Do I even need to mention anything?
Doyle: earlier season form deserves it, played about 15 minutes in 2 months
Stokes: Cant crack the same Sunderland squad that Connolly and Murphy do
O'Dea: plays well in 2 matches and gets in the squad?
Douglas: plays for ****ing Leeds
Gibson: Royal MOTHER****ING ANTWERP

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Long, err, yeah you do need to mention something. He's performed well in the Premiership and only lost his place when Doyle came back
Doyle's been injured for the last 6 weeks or so, just back in the Reading side
Stokes has well documented problems getting into the side that are not related to his skill level
O'Dea's been playing well for most of the season, not just the 2 games agains Milan
Douglas, see my comment above
Gibson, fair enough, I wouldn't have him in the squad, Fergie rates him highly, and was happy enough to see him go to San Marino, if not play. Could end up being this season's Alan O'Brien.

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Originally Posted by theworm2345

Staunton is not fit to manage my sister's u13 team, much the less a formerly-excellent Irish team.
Anyone remember playing France last year, the match we lost 1-0? The atmosphere was great, the players wanted to win, and we played great. We had Brian Kerr and everyone blamed him.

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I was at that game, we had few shots on target and played extremely negatively, even after going behind. If you don't think it was Kerr, look at the Cyprus and Swiss games that followed it, same plan, same formation, same bad results. Kerr had to go, although at the time if you had told me who was coming in then I would have kept him.

I'm sure that most people's prefered starting 11 has been called up. My only second take is Folan but not Morrison/Lee? If I were Stan heading into 2 make or break games I wouldn't leave my striking option as lean as he has in terms of recent form and injury. Keane is on form but Doyle is just back from injury and Stokes and Long can't get a game.

Morrison's goal scoring record for Ireland can stand up to anyone and he does offer as much height as Doyle. But Folan is a good bet for the future, he 6' 2" strong and relatively pacey, but I haven't seen very much of him so unsure about vision, touch link up etc.

On the Connolly front it's possible Stan just doesn't like him personally, Connolly was also a Keane supported during the Saipan incident and is very outspoken. Stan may just feel the angry ant isn't worth the hassle.

Another example of no consistency. What message does it send to players when it's clearly a case that you don't reep what you sew when it comes Stans selection?

Long, Folan, Henderson, Colgan (arguably Stokes but I was indifferent either way) shouldn't be in the sqaud.

Morrison, Connolly and arguably Lee should feel hard done by given the presence of some of the above. Same goes for any of our peripheral goal keepers. Colgan is past it and Hendersons place should be up for grabs as much for his club form as his interantional mistake.

A case could be argued for Miller over Gibson too. In fact I think I'd go as far as to say I'd prefer to see Miller start the match ahead of Ireland.

Stans Team:
Given
Finnan, McShane, Dunne, O'Shea,
Kilbane, Ireland, Carsley, Duff
Doyle, Keane

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Originally Posted by Qwerty

On the Connolly front it's possible Stan just doesn't like him personally, Connolly was also a Keane supported during the Saipan incident and is very outspoken. Stan may just feel the angry ant isn't worth the hassle.

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That is exactly what I said in a post I can not now find. Stan did mention Connolly being in his thoughts in some article a few months back, but if he's not called up now, I wouldn't know when he would be

We are desperate in the center of midfield. Carsley is 33 years old, although he keeps himself in fantastic shape, if he is injured, we are in serious, serious trouble. I think there is a very strong case for having a player like Holland on the bench in case such a situation arises. A midfield pairing of Irelamd and O'Shea/Douglas/Kilbane would be absolutely disastrous.

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Originally Posted by danonion

We are desperate in the center of midfield. Carsley is 33 years old, although he keeps himself in fantastic shape, if he is injured, we are in serious, serious trouble. I think there is a very strong case for having a player like Holland on the bench in case such a situation arises.

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Holland will be 33 in a matter of days....

With regard to David Connolly, I personally feel that, sadly, the time for argument for his inclusion has passed. The ideal time for his re-introduction was against the cloggers of San Marino - I think A proven championship level striker in a rich vein of form would have had a field day against 'em. However, pitching him in against the Welsh or Czechs would be a bridge too far without him coming off the confidence Buzz of a recall and an almost certain goal or two.

Staunton Doesnt like or rate Connolly. Is this down to the "S" word from 2002? Probably. But hell, we wont know until the book deal, will we?

If it IS true, isn't it reassuring to know that we have a manager who allows his personal foibles & grudges to stand in the way of playing his most suitable team for an occasion?

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Originally Posted by theworm2345

Stokes, Doyle, Long, even Folan
not one of them derserves it over Connolly, Murphy, Ward, Keogh, Morrison, etc
Leave now Staunton and dont come back
Connolly: 10 goals in 16 games
Morrison: 4 goals in 4 games, 10 on the season
Ward: 3 goals in February
Keogh: perhaps not
Murphy: sure as hell plays over Stokes
M. Rowlands: deserves it over Douglas, as he has been better than him goal scoring wise and always seems to be involved with QPR's goals
P. McCarthy: I forget if he's hurt, but if hes not, he should be in over O'Dea

Folan: 2 goals makes you a superstar?
Long: Do I even need to mention anything?
Doyle: earlier season form deserves it, played about 15 minutes in 2 months
Stokes: Cant crack the same Sunderland squad that Connolly and Murphy do
O'Dea: plays well in 2 matches and gets in the squad?
Douglas: plays for ****ing Leeds
Gibson: Royal MOTHER****ING ANTWERP

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was this part some sort of weird IKeano? if its not that it must be the lyrics to a future song about the team when they qualify for some major final - like "The Mighty Quinn" ;)

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Originally Posted by Bondvillain

Holland will be 33 in a matter of days....

With regard to David Connolly, I personally feel that, sadly, the time for argument for his inclusion has passed. The ideal time for his re-introduction was against the cloggers of San Marino - I think A proven championship level striker in a rich vein of form would have had a field day against 'em. However, pitching him in against the Welsh or Czechs would be a bridge too far without him coming off the confidence Buzz of a recall and an almost certain goal or two.

Staunton Doesnt like or rate Connolly. Is this down to the "S" word from 2002? Probably. But hell, we wont know until the book deal, will we?

If it IS true, isn't it reassuring to know that we have a manager who allows his personal foibles & grudges to stand in the way of playing his most suitable team for an occasion?

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Stan stated that he has only seen Folan play on Sky highlights. He has introduced into his squad selectons a bizarre hearsay policy. Having said that I can understand why he has brought Folan in. We need someone up front who can put himself about and hold the ball up. Our midfield is average and we need another option.

Folan brings a bit of pace, size and strength. It's a different option and he's right to have a look at him. Do we really need another midget sized centre forward? IMO no. Connolly has had plenty of chances over the years to cement a place in the squad. Time to give youth a chance hence the need for Long, Doyle and Stokes. If Sunderland goes up and he starts banging goals in next season then Stan will reconsider but until then he won't get a look in.

The pro Stan backlash starts here!

I'm quite happy with this squad. There are not that many surprises but the defnece seems our best choice (and a better selection than 12 months ago). Carsley is firmly in Central Midfield.

I guess the shocks were
Folan. Am deligted with this. Stan has obviously realised you have to have a big striker, he's looked around and not seen much available to him. We might argue about Alan Lee but he's never made a compelling case. So h'e jumped at the opportunity of Folan. Christ he's better than Gary Doherty. As to Connolly not being picked it doent surprise me that someone who played alongside him wouldnt pick him. All accounts are that he is an odious little tw*t.

Gibson (assuming he's eligible). We should blood him now. anyone who is hankering after Liam Miller as our saviour is deluded. Let's try Gibson.

So I'm happy with that.

My only complain is the goalies. We should have a 3 of Given, Kenny and Doyle. Colgan is never going to make it and Henderson is a possible at best.

Are you actually pro-Stan, or just pro this selection?

I think the squad is ok with the exception of the Keeprs. I agree Doyle should be there. Kenny has said he does not want to be picked for the forseeable future so I would have gone for Given Henderson and Doyle as the keepers.


O Shea Dunne, Mc Shane and O Dea as centre backs is fine

Finnan Kelly Harte as full backs is grand also.

I think its possible that maybe Miller could be in instead of Gibson but that is a close call to be honest.


Finally the stirkers which people seem to be going mad over Folan is not competing with Connolly as Connolly is a poacher and about 5ft 8, Folan is 6ft 2 and is a pacey strong striker. I think Staunton is looking to have variation in his strikers and Keane, Stokes, Long, Doyle and Folan offer that. I also think in the long term that Ward may have a chance if he keeps up his form.

I think Geary deserved a call, apart from Finnan the other contenders at FB are pedestrian at best and although Geary may be no superstar he's worth a look. Likewise I'd have though Hawkins or McCarthy would have been worth a call up at CB. Don't really have a problem with Folan, he's worth a look, but he should only be used as an option. If we go back to this business of playing a big man who 'runs the channels' well then we're going the wrong way.

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Originally Posted by Nailer77

Are you actually pro-Stan, or just pro this selection?

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I'm pro this selection.

I hope that Stan will prove us all wrong in his management etc but I am fairly sure he wont

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Originally Posted by cavan_fan

I'm pro this selection.

I hope that Stan will prove us all wrong in his management etc but I am fairly sure he wont

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No I'm pretty damn sure he won't.

i think he will

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Originally Posted by cavan_fan

I'm pro this selection.

I hope that Stan will prove us all wrong in his management etc but I am fairly sure he wont

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ditto, but then I was pro the squad for San Marino as well....

more words of wisdom from staunton in his post squad announcement press conference.......... seemingly he will not now pick any striker who is not playing in the premiership as he has four strikers to pick from who are.... suppose stokes will be dropped now that he's realised his mistake in calling him up........ f*cking idiot

it is a decent selection with what we have available. those calling for connolly and miller are a bit off the mark. imo neither would be close to starting so why bring them in. folan brings another dimension which is good - in fairness i've seen fúck all of him but it offers something different if struggling to break down a team. personally am a fan of having a big man in reserve.

overall:
3 CB's are fine
would have liked another full back - probably geary
we have very little other options in midfield so this is ok imo
up front - nice to have a bit of variety although i still don't rate long that high yet... possibly there to justify his starting role in san marino

He never said he would not pic a striker in the Championship he just said that guys who are in the Premiership have an advantage and also he said that Stokes offers something different to the others. This is the key in a squad that many people seem to be forgetting. Its about having variation on the bench. I think our striking options are nice and varied at the moment and I dont have a problem with them.

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Originally Posted by greendeiseboy

more words of wisdom from staunton in his post squad announcement press conference.......... seemingly he will not now pick any striker who is not playing in the premiership as he has four strikers to pick from who are.... suppose stokes will be dropped now that he's realised his mistake in calling him up........ f*cking idiot

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Did you read this: http://www.unison.ie/sportsdesk/stor...=12&si=1794218

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"Anthony gives us a different dimension and that's why I've gone with that," asserts Staunton.

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I think the squad is well balanced.
Given has returned, alleluia.
Stan has thrown down the gauntlet re performances, hasn't been hightlighted here yet,
"But that (excuses) goes out the window now and if they're not performing we will change things around."

im shocked that more people arent complaining that liam miller isnt even in the squad. I'd have him starting with carsley against wales. I'm amazed he's not there.

He's our most natural midfielder when on form and the likes of douglas, ireland, kilbane, etc. are miles behind in terms of ability. Also, he seems to be playing gr8 stuff with sunderland and it can't be bad for his game having a manager who was the best midfielder in the world

Anthony Stokes will return to Sunderland's squad against Hull City tomorrow.

The teenage striker has missed the Black Cats' last two games after disciplinary problems.

Stokes was dropped for being late for the team bus heading for Barnsley a week ago and did not return against Stoke on Tuesday.

But Roy Keane has confirmed that the Irishman, who scored for the reserves against Darlington this week, will be back tomorrow and could play against the Tigers.

The Sunderland manager said: "His attitude was good in the reserve game and he scored a good goal, he was a threat as you would expect. He will be in the squad tomorrow.

"Anthony missed out the other night but he'll be back - he's a very, very talented young player, there's no doubt about that.

"We've got to remember that he's 18 years of age, we've got to be patient with him, on and off the pitch.

"His attitude the other day [in the reserves] was spot on and he scored another good goal, it really pleased me."

Stokes has been named in the latest Republic of Ireland squad, for their Euro 2008 games against Wales and Slovakia over the next fortnight.

But there is no place in Steve Staunton's squad for Sunderland trio David Connolly, Liam Miller or Daryl Murphy.

Connolly's omission in particular is surprising, considering his form for Sunderland.

"It's a strange one," said Keane. "I really don't know the thinking behind it, I'd rather not comment."

Obviously Keane feels Connolly was left out for reasons other than football.

Yeah and rightly he does not want to get into telling another manager how to do their job.

He said enough, I'll take Stan's judgement on Connolly's squad merits over Roy's anyday.

connolly is just unlucky-he'll bever get a look in when keane is fit.

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Connolly's omission in particular is surprising, considering his form for Sunderland.

"It's a strange one," said Keane. "I really don't know the thinking behind it, I'd rather not comment."

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i don't think you can say that it is clear that his exclusion is for non football reasons.

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"i really don't know the thinking behind it"

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could just as easily mean
"i think his is banging in the goals and should be there before Long etc"

and

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I'd rather not comment."

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could just mean that he doesn't want to talk about other managers team selections

but i think we are seeing the beginning of a new conspiracy :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by geysir

He said enough, I'll take Stan's judgement on Connolly's squad merits over Roy's anyday.

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Are you serious I know its early days but it seem pretty clear even to the biggest anti Keane people that he has a fair better apptitude for managment than Staunton does. I think Keane was right he was not being drawn into it but yet made it clear that he feels his players merits a place in the squad.